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G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

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G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

Old 10th Oct 2021, 07:41
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helonorth View Post
What an asshat.
Quite. I reiterate my previous post.
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 10:24
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Helonorth and Heathcliff - I really don't see why you seem to have a problem is with my post.

Is it because I said he had to have a near accident to be open and honest about human frailties?
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 11:05
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Crab

As someone who knows the gentleman concerned, professionally, (and no i don't work for him and never have) and who has attended several of the training courses he has run at Cranfield, i can say with absolute certainty that he was well aware of "the harsh realities of being a pilot" and was more than prepared to be "open and honest about human frailties" long before the incident occurred. One of the most recurring comments arising from his presentations was regarding how open and honest he was in using case studies involving himself and his company.

This event proves that no matter who you are you can be wrong and you can get it wrong.

Should he have got it wrong? - No of course he should not (nor should any pilot) and he more than anyone will be aware of that. But we are all human and we are all subject to making errors.

What we should be doing now is reflecting on the lessons of this rather than taking cheap shots at people from the comfort of our anonymous armchairs.

You refer to the nights where you have scared yourself... I wonder how close any of those events were to becoming an incident such as this one? Perhaps closer than you would like to think or admit.

In the event that your actions on those nights were subject to the level of scrutiny and analysis that has been brought to bear here I wonder how you would come out of it looking?

I think that what people are taking exception to is your holier than thou attitude.








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Old 10th Oct 2021, 11:31
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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I think that what people are taking exception to is your holier than thou attitude.
In that case they are reading into my post something that isn't there - why else did I allude to situations when I had learned hard lessons about my own frailties?
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 12:12
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Your contention that he had only understood his human frailties after his own mistake is a bizarre one. There is no suggestion that this is the case, as those who have attended his course will verify.
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 17:47
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathcliff View Post
Your contention that he had only understood his human frailties after his own mistake is a bizarre one. There is no suggestion that this is the case, as those who have attended his course will verify.
It shouldnít be a surprise, particularly in aviation, that people have a habit of only recognising their frailties after a near death experience. Presuming of course they are fortunate enough to survive the lesson.
Crab may be a bit crabby in his response but he is quite right. A bruised ego may just save someoneís life. Moving on..
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 18:19
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Nowhere has it been said or even suggested that this is the case though. It's an assumption. Admittedly it is true of most of us, and indeed I count myself amid that number, but I wouldn't assume it of anyone.
It seemed a strange thing to take away from that post, that's all.
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 18:34
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathcliff View Post
Nowhere has it been said or even suggested that this is the case though. It's an assumption. Admittedly it is true of most of us, and indeed I count myself amid that number, but I wouldn't assume it of anyone.
It seemed a strange thing to take away from that post, that's all.
HC, I donít know you. You donít know me, I certainly donít know crabcakes. I do understand being misunderstood. I seriously doubt that what was read into the comment was what was intended.
The internet is full of static and has terrible signal on a good day.
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 20:37
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Very good point. I apologise if I have misread. And a great phrase to take away from the thread as well as everything else!
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Old 10th Oct 2021, 21:55
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Just for clarity - I was trying to emphasise an old aviation adage - Experience is what you get just after you really needed it - ie those close calls should and hopefully do, improve us as pilots because we should learn from our own mistakes as well as those of others. I know I have and when it comes to flying, I am my own harshest critic.

Has my ego led me to make mistakes in the air? Most certainly, especially in my younger days.

I'm not taking cheap shots from an anonymous armchair, I am pointing out that Dr SM would likely never again put himself in a similar position because he did learn from it - I'm sure he was aware of how poor decision making can escalate rapidly before he had this incident but it still happened to him. He has moved on, older and wiser and to his credit not shied away from understanding the causes but discussed them openly.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 07:09
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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The internet is full of static and has terrible signal on a good day
That's a keeper B r, do you mind?
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 08:09
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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That certainly is a true statement, on a good day! Anyway, we need a like button for post #131.
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 08:10
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
That's a keeper B r, do you mind?
In the interest of internet-based harmony and understanding, go forth and use liberally..
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 12:42
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies again Crab, and amen to all that!
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 13:33
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies again Crab, and amen to all that!
No worries Bell Ringer's observation re t'interweb is spot on - not the first time my posts have been construed to mean something that wasn't intended.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 03:49
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected]k View Post
No worries Bell Ringer's observation re t'interweb is spot on - not the first time my posts have been construed to mean something that wasn't intended.
If this is not the first time your meaning has been misconstrued, it's possible that there's another learning opportunity here.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 07:37
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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If this is not the first time your meaning has been misconstrued, it's possible that there's another learning opportunity here.
Yes, for everyone who uses social media
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 09:53
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Location: After all, whatís more important than proving to someone on the internet that theyíre wrong? - Manson
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In aviation -
Learn from the mistakes of others, as you will not live long enough to make them all yourself.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 20:04
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'm not taking cheap shots from an anonymous armchair, I am pointing out that Dr SM would likely never again put himself in a similar position because he did learn from it - I'm sure he was aware of how poor decision making can escalate rapidly before he had this incident but it still happened to him. He has moved on, older and wiser and to his credit not shied away from understanding the causes but discussed them openly.
Any Penzance Helicopters, Sloane Helicopters, Castle Air or whoever else has operated the Scilly Isles runs when the same crew and S92 were present care to elaborate on the applicable weather minima v what actual weather the S92 was conducting approaches into Mounts Bay in, post incident clearly but also post report publication? This is a question not an assertion before anybody jumps on it.
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 01:37
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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If this is not the first time your meaning has been misconstrued
The problem with communication is the belief that it has occurred.
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