Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

Old 13th Dec 2019, 15:55
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 157
G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

14 Oct 2019G-LAWXSIKORSKY S-92A High rate of decent on landing,Under Investigation
Anyone able to share anymore info?

"High Rate of Decent on Landing" - would that not just be a "heavy landing" or is there more to this if we read between the lines?
As this is simply a rumour network:
Was this a case of failing to "practice what you preach"?
Or a lack of recency and credible experience 'on-type'?
Was it another 'Paul McCartney-esque' incident?
Cant wait years for the official report so need to speculate now ...........
On a more serious note - just thankful that everyone got away this time
​​​​​​​
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 16:17
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 297
High RoD n landing and heavy landing are 2 very different things
helicrazi is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 16:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 331
Originally Posted by JulieAndrews View Post
14 Oct 2019G-LAWXSIKORSKY S-92A High rate of decent on landing,Under Investigation
Anyone able to share anymore info?

"High Rate of Decent on Landing" - would that not just be a "heavy landing" or is there more to this if we read between the lines?
As this is simply a rumour network:
Was this a case of failing to "practice what you preach"?
Or a lack of recency and credible experience 'on-type'?
Was it another 'Paul McCartney-esque' incident?
Cant wait years for the official report so need to speculate now ...........
On a more serious note - just thankful that everyone got away this time
Yes the 92 is a jolly decent machine. I wonder if descent auto corrected to decent!
​​​​​​​
jeepys is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 16:53
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London
Posts: 32
QUOTE=helicrazi;10639116]High RoD n landing and heavy landing are 2 very different th

Helicrazi,

Would you mind sharing your wisdom on this matter with us then?

HS

helisniper is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:18
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 70
Wasn't this the one that lost too much height on the approach to an oli rig, had an overtorque and heading deviation upon recovering?
I couldn't find the thread here nor the link, sorry.
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Jimmy. View Post
Wasn't this the one that lost too much height on the approach to an oli rig, had an overtorque and heading deviation upon recovering?
I couldn't find the thread here nor the link, sorry.
don’t think so. G-LAWX is a vip/corporate-configured s92, Starspeed AOC
heli14 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2019, 23:23
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Inside the Industry
Posts: 783
Wasn't this the one that lost too much height on the approach to an oli rig, had an overtorque and heading deviation upon recovering?
I couldn't find the thread here nor the link, sorry.
No, that one was in Canada. Regardless of the circumstances the parameters were approximately:

1700fpm ROD, 10 KTS, 30’ off the water and pulled 145% torque drooping to 78% NR, both ACs off line and that S-92 still flew home.

It’s one tough aircraft.
industry insider is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2019, 00:45
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by industry insider View Post


No, that one was in Canada. Regardless of the circumstances the parameters were approximately:

1700fpm ROD, 10 KTS, 30’ off the water and pulled 145% torque drooping to 78% NR, both ACs off line and that S-92 still flew home.

It’s one tough aircraft.
Insider, I think you are talking about the Cougar incident after takeoff from a rig some years ago. IMC after takeoff, too much pitch up, FD coupled with airspeed dropping (and decoupled), descent IMC at very low airspeed at high rate and then VMC, overtorque...
The incident I mentioned was this year, during approach, "sudden" loss of height and then NR drop combined with heading change (probably rapid collective increase), but I couldn't find the source.
Agree with you, very tough aircraft.
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2019, 07:15
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 297
Originally Posted by Jimmy. View Post
Insider, I think you are talking about the Cougar incident after takeoff from a rig some years ago. IMC after takeoff, too much pitch up, FD coupled with airspeed dropping (and decoupled), descent IMC at very low airspeed at high rate and then VMC, overtorque...
The incident I mentioned was this year, during approach, "sudden" loss of height and then NR drop combined with heading change (probably rapid collective increase), but I couldn't find the source.
Agree with you, very tough aircraft.
no, Insider was referring to the much more recent incident, which occurred on approach.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
no, Insider was referring to the much more recent incident, which occurred on approach.
Thanks! Do you have a link, please?
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2019, 13:12
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
Originally Posted by Jimmy. View Post
Thanks! Do you have a link, please?
https://www.cnsopb.ns.ca/news/update...ter-occurrence
212man is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2019, 14:09
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 70
Thank you, 212man.
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2019, 08:51
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 508
Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
High RoD n landing and heavy landing are 2 very different things
Well go on then, we're all ears. Sounds crazi.
pilotmike is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2019, 11:08
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,607
Explored the linked sites data.....came away thinking the Canadians must have some serious problems with excessive gravity with all the "Collided With Terrain" investigations.

The other thing that posed some interest was the "Collided With Trees" as compared to "Collided With Terrain"......whats the difference I wonder?

SASless is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2019, 11:09
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
Well go on then, we're all ears. Sounds crazi.
Doesn’t seem difficult - a hard landing is where you have a high rate of descent during the touchdown. Depending on the actual rate, and the subsequent forces exerted, that may or may not exceed the design limits and result in structural damage. A high rate of descent during the landing ‘phase’ can be arrested prior to touchdown or a missed approach carried out. The circumstances behind how and why the high rate of descent occurred might constitute a ‘serious incident’ and warrant an investigation - I’m guessing that’s what is happening here.
212man is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:35
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 559
Julie

From your wording it's fairly plain that you think you know more about this than you're letting on.

There was a serious incident - that much is plain otherwise AAIB would not be looking into it.

It was reported by the crew - it's being investigated.

I'm not invloved with the operator and never have been. Nor am I going to suggest people don't speculate - this is, as you say a rumour network.

You however are not speculating - you're clearly trolling and one has to consider your motivation.

OH
OvertHawk is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2019, 16:04
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 157
TOH
Not sure if I know anything more than anyone else in the UK Onshore Industry whom uses PPRuNe, waiting to see..........
Also - waiting to see how this incident fits within the scope of CAA’s recent report of the industry and it’s safety levels.
I’ve attended various seminars, briefings and functions where a lot of back slapping goes on but the old spectre of commercial pressure remains. Couple that with the helicopter pilots’ natural eagerness to ‘push on’ and we get the repeat headlines - irregardless of how many CAA Industry Reports are published.
Personally, I will be disappointed if it turns out to be another case of a crew thinking they did not require a dynamic risk assessment and ‘pushed on’, leading to an incident, further CAA restrictions and bad press for the industry.

Maybe if you hear more details you can share them with us in a timely manner, rather than having to wait for the investigation report etc etc - which is the whole purpose of the thread; which, to be frank, I thought was fairly obvious?
From what I have learnt since starting the thread is that there are various accounts of the information you have shared already.




Last edited by JulieAndrews; 15th Dec 2019 at 16:22.
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2019, 12:32
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 899
And WHOOPEE!! CAA SOC16 arrives in your in-box, to be completed by 31 December detailing how you conduct night off-airfield landings.

SND
Sir Niall Dementia is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2019, 13:14
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 391
SASless, about twenty to thirty feet I'd guess
Robbo Jock is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2019, 21:07
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 445
Originally Posted by Sir Niall Dementia View Post
And WHOOPEE!! CAA SOC16 arrives in your in-box, to be completed by 31 December detailing how you conduct night off-airfield landings.

SND
....it is making the industry a safer place though.
cyclic is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.