Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

G-LAWX S92 Incident AAIB

Old 2nd Jun 2020, 15:36
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Used to be God's own County
Posts: 1,614
8-months since G-LAWX Incident - has anyone seen a report of findings / lesson learnt ?
EESDL is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2020, 17:16
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by EESDL View Post
8-months since G-LAWX Incident - has anyone seen a report of findings / lesson learnt ?
AAIB website lists the incident as "Still under investigation" which would be as expected in terms of time frame.
OvertHawk is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:35
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Used to be God's own County
Posts: 1,614
Beggars belief that such a single-aircraft incident could take so long.
I guess we’re back to AAIB struggling to promulgate safety-related Information in a timely fashion.
I wonder if this is another COVID casualty or simply down to a lack of resources?
EESDL is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2020, 08:03
  #24 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 181
Some news at least
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s..._content=daily
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2020, 16:30
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 53
sounds vaguely similar to the Harrods Paul McCartney S76 incident a few years ago...
...an update on the ongoing AAIB investigation into a serious incident involving Sikorsky S-92A, G-LAWX, near Shipston-on-Stour, Warwickshire on 14 October 2019.

Whilst making an approach to a private landing site in conditions of reduced visibility the helicopter descended to within 28 ft of rising terrain close to a house. During the subsequent missed approach, at low indicated airspeed, engine torque increased to 131% and the pitch attitude of the helicopter was unstable. The helicopter then made a successful approach to the landing site without damage or injury.

To date no pre-existing mechanical defects have been identified that might have contributed to the occurrence.

The AAIB investigation of the occurrence has explored the operation of the helicopter, flight planning, organisational supervision, the regulatory requirements related to non-commercial complex helicopter operations in visual meteorological conditions, and the provision and effectiveness of terrain awareness and warning systems in the onshore helicopter environment.

A full report of the investigation will be published in due course.
I know they are not the AOC operator but are Harrods are still involved in the management/private operation of G-LAWX (they were a few years ago) or have all operations switched to the current AOC holder?
heli14 is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2020, 20:45
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 54
Posts: 5,056
Originally Posted by heli14 View Post
sounds vaguely similar to the Harrods Paul McCartney S76 incident a few years ago...

I know they are not the AOC operator but are Harrods are still involved in the management/private operation of G-LAWX (they were a few years ago) or have all operations switched to the current AOC holder?
my thoughts too. Plus this one https://assets.publishing.service.go...BYPA_11-08.pdf
212man is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2020, 07:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 54
Harrods have had nothing to do with the operation of GLAWX for at least 5 years.
The only Harrods input is the maintenance and hangarage
Reflex is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2020, 11:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The world is my lobster
Posts: 55
operator

Starspeed me thinks
bellboy is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2020, 17:34
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1
S-92A G-LAWX Anniversary Statement AAIB

UPDATE - NOT ABLE TO POST URL as have not posted at least 10 times. !

GOV.UK
SIKORSKY S-92A
G-LAWX
ANNIVERSARY STATEMENT
Napoleon1 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2020, 19:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,855
Don’t worry, Boney. The link was posted 5 posts above your’s.
Bravo73 is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 08:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Reflex View Post
Harrods have had nothing to do with the operation of GLAWX for at least 5 years.
The only Harrods input is the maintenance and hangarage
Did Starspeed ‘take’ the IMC letdown that you and ST used to fly in GLAWX though when they took over operating the aircraft 🤔
Helimuttslovechild is offline  
Old 18th May 2021, 20:29
  #32 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 181
ok - this is ridiculous - still nuffink! negates the point of an investigation if timing is not an issue........
JulieAndrews is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 16:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1
The AAIB Serious Incident report into G-LAWX has now been published on the AAIB website. I am afraid I am not allowed to post any links yet so google will have to be your friend. Suffice to say that it makes some pretty eye-watering reading!
Roger out is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 18:17
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 21
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib...y-s-92a-g-lawx
Ex Machina is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 23:22
  #35 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 13,380
That report is one of the most comprehensive I’ve read since I began flying, over forty five years ago.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 08:12
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 484
Oh my.. Got lucky when luck wasn’t needed; just better decision-making and robust procedures. Simply astounding that a second approach was attempted after the first was so badly managed; and that one was also then badly managed.

The decision to fly manually seems suggestive of a lack of familiarity and confidence in using the automatics. With less than 500 on type and few hours on-type in the period pre-incident, versatility and confidence in using the AFCS to full advantage may have been lacking. This was also accepted by the more experienced pilot on type, who was also a commander. Given the seniority in the company of the commander on the day, it is hard to escape the impression that the P2 went along with a lot more that they should have. In fairness, irrespective of culture and hierarchy, SOPs on challenge and intervention are often not very comprehensive, specifying a very narrow set of deviation parameters, which offer little help for a broader set of circumstances which can be implicitly dangerous and need action. The flight read anything but safe and well-judged.

Glad all came out of it safely and provided us with things to learn from.

Torquetalk is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 09:14
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 828
As a fixed wing pilot with corporate experience this reads to me frighteningly close to the N303GA accident in Aspen

Very lucky indeed.
Jwscud is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 11:49
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 176
I think the Safety Recommendation 2021-027 stands out and I believe that PinS approaches should be widely developed and be available for civil onshore helicopter operations. Planning and flying IFR en-route and provides a black & white 'visual, landing' or 'go around' decision at the end of an instrument procedure, which offers easier decision making than scud running and saying "I'm just going to try one more mile" (in my opinion).

I believe that knowing that the flight would be IMC and planning to use a PinS approach at the end also makes the possibility of not reaching the destination due to weather much more difficult to ignore and necessitates a back-up IFR diversion, which in this case seemed to have been ignored as the possibility of IIMC was not considered and Wellesbourne was discussed as the diversion (Birmingham was only brought up by the crew as a diversion once they had already gone IIMC).
ApolloHeli is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 12:03
  #39 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 69
Posts: 3,925
Do we as helicopter pilots have a mass self-esteem problem or something? You would be daft to try this in a 206, that is getting the customer through bad weather, let alone something a lot bigger. Why do we keep thinking we have to solve other peoples' problems? If the weather is bad, that's it, go by car.

What is the point of us teaching our students that this is not part of the service we should be providing? This flight should have been thrown away a lot earlier, and I speak as a corporate pilot of many years' standing.
paco is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 12:34
  #40 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 13,380
In jobs like this, where the weather goes against you, the pressure to go is always present or implied, much more so than in the airline world. The pilot has the option of possibly being stood up against the wall by the CAA, if it goes badly wrong, or directly on the day by the customer if a more cautious no-go option is chosen. I've often taken the latter option and then been taken to task by the aircraft owner, who after the event asks the opinions of non experts, such as his estate manager or taxi driver and tells you it was the wrong choice because "You would have got in".

Such is the lot of the corporate heli pilot and one needs to have very broad shoulders.
ShyTorque is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.