SAR S-92 Missing Ireland
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Daily Data - Climate - Met Éireann - The Irish Meteorological Service Online
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From: U.K.
And then we come to the critical issue of navigation. Given that there is a significant chance that this aircraft was not where its crew thought it was, I am astonished to gather from some posts that there is a possibility this S92 did not have a moving map display in the cockpit? Is this really the case? It seems incredible if so that a $20m aircraft can have less such kit than most single engined VFR helis. And such an omission may well be a major contributory factor in this accident.
As for not being where they thought it was I find it hard to think they mistook the lighthouse for Blacksod, aircraft heading would mean they were aproaching Blacksod from the wrong direction and put them over land?
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AAXX 14011 03976 47130 /2210 10106 20099 30242 40254 55003 7818/ 88///
333 88/03==
Visibility 3 km, Wind 220 @ 10 m/s (19 knots), Temp 10.6 °C, Dewpoint 9.9 °C, Sea-level pressure 1025.4 hPa, Stable, rain shower, Overcast at 300 ft.
I've made up this chart showing Belmullet and Mace Head obs. Cloudbase had lowered to 200 ft at Mace Head at 2 am.
Last edited by Ber Nooly; 21st March 2017 at 23:59.
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Hi everyone.
Been reading through all the posts on here. Very sad and tragic. Regarding Rescue 116's positioning, the following may be of interest to you all. Seems to be the very last ATC conversations between Rescue 116 and Shannon (SNN)
EINN-High-Mar-14-2017-0000Z.mp3
Been reading through all the posts on here. Very sad and tragic. Regarding Rescue 116's positioning, the following may be of interest to you all. Seems to be the very last ATC conversations between Rescue 116 and Shannon (SNN)
EINN-High-Mar-14-2017-0000Z.mp3
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Their intentions are unclear in that clip.
Asked if they are going direct to the ship, they say...
"Our intentions are not to go as far as the ship but it is a possibility, it is a possibility"
I cannot understand the next sentence, it's a little unclearer,
We are having problems getting there or we will have problems getting there for rescue so our intention is to stop at blacksod for a refuel and then we will figure it out from there.
To me, they are indecisive, there is no clear plan on what they are doing. Stopping at blacksod for more fuel (rather than low on fuel) to figure out what they would do next.
As they were indecisive on their actual plan, they could easily have elected to land on blackrock rather than blacksod to give them time to figure out what to do next. It is a possibility, it is a possibility suggests to me that their plan for blacksod was on their mind but not a certainty.
I don't think we can draw any conclusions from that 30secs audio, it's indecisive.
.
Asked if they are going direct to the ship, they say...
"Our intentions are not to go as far as the ship but it is a possibility, it is a possibility"
I cannot understand the next sentence, it's a little unclearer,
We are having problems getting there or we will have problems getting there for rescue so our intention is to stop at blacksod for a refuel and then we will figure it out from there.
To me, they are indecisive, there is no clear plan on what they are doing. Stopping at blacksod for more fuel (rather than low on fuel) to figure out what they would do next.
As they were indecisive on their actual plan, they could easily have elected to land on blackrock rather than blacksod to give them time to figure out what to do next. It is a possibility, it is a possibility suggests to me that their plan for blacksod was on their mind but not a certainty.
I don't think we can draw any conclusions from that 30secs audio, it's indecisive.
.
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From: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
With my trained Air traffikers ears ( I talk to these guys on a daily basis) they definately say their intention is to refuel at Blacksod.
I am guessing that most of the navigation is done by the crew in the back of the cab using all the bells and whistles available to them. And I understand that is some pretty good kit with a map display going down to Ordnance Survey quality. So why end up at Black rock when they think they are going to Blacksod?
I am certain all will be clear once the contents of the CVR are revealed.
I am guessing that most of the navigation is done by the crew in the back of the cab using all the bells and whistles available to them. And I understand that is some pretty good kit with a map display going down to Ordnance Survey quality. So why end up at Black rock when they think they are going to Blacksod?
I am certain all will be clear once the contents of the CVR are revealed.
Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Ireland
"We are having problems getting two-way with Rescue 118 at the moment so our intentions are to land ON Blacksod, refuel and we'll figure it out from there I suppose."
I think using the word "ON" instead of "AT" could indicate they may have been aware they were landing on an island (rock in this case) and not at a landing area on the mainland?
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Okay thanks for clarification on the "two way" that's the part that was unclear to me.
A definite land at Blacksod? Sorry, I don't agree there.
It says their intentions were to land at blacksod for a refuel, not that they were definitely landing at Blacksod for a refuel. In addition to that, explain the "our intentions are not to go as far as the ship, but it is a possibility, it is a possibility"
The word intention is used twice, and in the first instance with a But.
I don't agree that this soundclip is conclusive proof personally, why use the words, but it is a possibility, it is a possibility.
The CVFDR will obviously be crucial here.
A definite land at Blacksod? Sorry, I don't agree there.
It says their intentions were to land at blacksod for a refuel, not that they were definitely landing at Blacksod for a refuel. In addition to that, explain the "our intentions are not to go as far as the ship, but it is a possibility, it is a possibility"
The word intention is used twice, and in the first instance with a But.
I don't agree that this soundclip is conclusive proof personally, why use the words, but it is a possibility, it is a possibility.
The CVFDR will obviously be crucial here.
You're getting caught up in semantics. I don't see any confusion in their intentions, and obviously neither did the controller.
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From: Wanaka, NZ
I've landed on occasion to conjur up a plan when faced with a tricky situation that required a bit of thought, much easier to do the conjuring when sitting safely on the ground. However when I see the daylight photo of that helipad on Blackrock, surrounded by cold water, at night and in bad weather, there is no way I'd contemplate landing on that in those conditions for that reason. It just doesn't make sense to me as an alternative compared with the other option. Which is why I suspect they thought they were somewhere other than where they actually were, for whatever set of reasons. The under the weather transit reason from where they were to where they wanted to go does make operational sense, except when you look at it from the angle that they actually hit the rock. So by implication, the fact that the rock was there came as a surprise to them. Of course a serious malfunction at a critical point might explain why they hit a rock that they knew was there.
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From: Somewhere
Mitchaa
Your just trolling now, you are obviously not a professional pilot, so what qualifies you to make such outlandish claims.
Any one that has flown, or still fly's on a SAR flight knows the professionalism that such crews fly with, and to say that they misidentified Blackrock as Blacksod is just rediculous.
If you know what the low level approach to Blacksod looks like, you wouldn't be making such comments.
No once have you asked have the missing crew been recovered yet? Instead it looks as if you are only interested in questioning their descision making on a 30 second ATC clip.
Any one that has flown, or still fly's on a SAR flight knows the professionalism that such crews fly with, and to say that they misidentified Blackrock as Blacksod is just rediculous.
If you know what the low level approach to Blacksod looks like, you wouldn't be making such comments.
No once have you asked have the missing crew been recovered yet? Instead it looks as if you are only interested in questioning their descision making on a 30 second ATC clip.
Last edited by norunway; 22nd March 2017 at 10:29. Reason: Additional point.
Joined: Oct 2013
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From: EGAB
Norunway
Professionals make mistakes too!
Were you in the helicopter when the accident happened?? No.. So anything is possible until they get more evidence from more wreckage and the black box.
The arrogance of some people on this...
Were you in the helicopter when the accident happened?? No.. So anything is possible until they get more evidence from more wreckage and the black box.
The arrogance of some people on this...
Joined: Dec 2014
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From: Out West
Anyone who has ever launched for a SAR flight with a rescue callsign will know that apart from a basic intent there is no plan as there is seldom time to make one. The plan evolves as the flight progresses and is constantly changed as more information becomes available.
Everything is a 'possibility' Mitchaa until it becomes an impossibility.
Everything is a 'possibility' Mitchaa until it becomes an impossibility.
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From: South Coast, UK
Your just trolling now, you are obviously not a professional pilot, so what qualifies you to make such outlandish claims.
Any one that has flown, or still fly's on a SAR flight knows the professionalism that such crews fly with, and to say that they misidentified Blackrock as Blacksod is just rediculous.
If you know what the low level approach to Blacksod looks like, you wouldn't be making such comments.
Any one that has flown, or still fly's on a SAR flight knows the professionalism that such crews fly with, and to say that they misidentified Blackrock as Blacksod is just rediculous.
If you know what the low level approach to Blacksod looks like, you wouldn't be making such comments.
Last edited by catch21; 22nd March 2017 at 12:14.
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From: Near the Mountains
Apart from the RT references to Blacksod, the information I have is that the helipad at Blackrock is 9m. It was built around the Bo105 which served the lighthouses for many years and, I understand, is just about acceptable for an EC135. I think we can be satisfied that nobody was planning to land an S92 there.
Establishing what they were doing in such close proximity to it and what brought about their ultimate, and increasingly apparent contact with it will have to wait just a little longer until crews recover the data recorder.
In the meantime, for the sake of the families and those close to them who are most seriously affected, we must hope that the missing crew members can be found sooner rather than later in what remains an extremely challenging environment for the services involved.
Establishing what they were doing in such close proximity to it and what brought about their ultimate, and increasingly apparent contact with it will have to wait just a little longer until crews recover the data recorder.
In the meantime, for the sake of the families and those close to them who are most seriously affected, we must hope that the missing crew members can be found sooner rather than later in what remains an extremely challenging environment for the services involved.