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SAR S-92 Missing Ireland

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SAR S-92 Missing Ireland

Old 23rd Mar 2017, 11:47
  #441 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Unlikely to be heading for the boat since R118 was doing that plus they had already declared they were refuelling at Blacksod before comtinuing on any tasking.

If they had no NVD it is more likely they were using a legacy profile from S61 days to get to Blacksod - if this meant using Blackrock as a visual marker to confirm they were clear of any other terrain then it sort of makes sense but still doesn't explain how they came to hit the rock.
To regain VMC?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 12:08
  #442 (permalink)  
 
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To regain VMC?
Yes, it would seem so.

helicrazi - yes it does seem a complicated way to do it but I guess they had their reasons.

It is disappointing that the introduction of NVD has taken so long though.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 12:40
  #443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, it would seem so.

helicrazi - yes it does seem a complicated way to do it but I guess they had their reasons.

It is disappointing that the introduction of NVD has taken so long though.
Once all of the factors come to light in the investigation of this sad event, I suspect it will be somewhat more than "disappointing" that this crew weren't equipped with NVD's. It's not like this is new technology. Expensive yes .... lifesaving? ... possibly.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 12:55
  #444 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
It must be my simplistic brain, but why wouldn't you just set up a way point out in sea and track in, rather than heading for a bit of rock miles away to potentially get visible with said bit of rock, only to lose it behind you as you head for land, possible losing both landmark references, at least with letting down offshore using radar and taws you can track in direct as required at low level?
Their original plan seems to have been to go out to sea to get establish comms with R118. This being unsuccessful they may have changed their plan, turned back to land and refuel at Blacksod, hence the turn. Still, why turn to Blackrock?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 13:21
  #445 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by smcc63 View Post
It had flotation system, but designed for specific decent and speed rates
From the S-92 Rotorcraft Flight Manaul:
The floats are not designed to absorb the force of water impact and must only
be deployed after water entry. When the flotation system is armed, the floats will automatically deploy via the immersion switch or manually deploy via the collective mounted FLOAT switch. The pilot should manually deploy the floats immediately after water entry.
The ELT is self-activated by a crash force of 12 Gs.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 15:25
  #446 (permalink)  
 
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HeliOffshore InfoShare

Quote:
Cause.

The cause of this accident is unknown at this stage, and all aspects will be investigated, including weather, human factors, and technical issues. Initial examination of the technical records of the aircraft have not identified any anomalies and the Health & Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) readings taken from the previous flight, show no irregularities including in the specific area of the Tail Rotor Pitch Change Shaft (TRPCS) bearing.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 18:00
  #447 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by malabo View Post
Us Canadians can't seem to fly without a map Garmin on the panel, but the 92 had lots of mapping capability. Rear crew with their detailed maps showing own position and communicating to the front. EGPWS will paint shorelines and obstacles, so will radar, RadAlts plus GPS altitude if required, user waypoints can be defined as airports and will show up on the flightplan screen (almost Garmin-like), and finally the iPads with any number of apps that map. JeppFD strangely enough shows Blackrock but with an elevation of only 46' - anybody else confirm?
The elevation of 46' is more like the elevation of Blacksod which is 43'.

I am convinced there was a mix up between Blackrock and Blacksod. If you look at Wikipedia Lighthouses of Ireland page, the Location coordinates for both lighthouses show Blacksod Bay.

It is quite possible that someone keyed in Blacksod Bay as a destination and did not realise that there were two lighthouses at that address and accidently chose the wrong one.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 18:07
  #448 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vibetribe View Post
Quote:
Cause.

The cause of this accident is unknown at this stage, and all aspects will be investigated, including weather, human factors, and technical issues. Initial examination of the technical records of the aircraft have not identified any anomalies and the Health & Usage Monitoring System (HUMS) readings taken from the previous flight, show no irregularities including in the specific area of the Tail Rotor Pitch Change Shaft (TRPCS) bearing.
How do you know this information? Is it confirmed by chc or the Coast Guard? Please share
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 18:31
  #449 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by agirl View Post
The elevation of 46' is more like the elevation of Blacksod which is 43'.

I am convinced there was a mix up between Blackrock and Blacksod. If you look at Wikipedia Lighthouses of Ireland page, the Location coordinates for both lighthouses show Blacksod Bay.

It is quite possible that someone keyed in Blacksod Bay as a destination and did not realise that there were two lighthouses at that address and accidently chose the wrong one.
Google Earth shows it at 36 feet.

These are monitored flights, are they not?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 18:44
  #450 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fullofexcuses01 View Post
How do you know this information? Is it confirmed by chc or the Coast Guard? Please share
CHC is represented on the board of Helioffshore
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 19:17
  #451 (permalink)  
 
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It is quite possible that someone keyed in Blacksod Bay as a destination and did not realise that there were two lighthouses at that address and accidently chose the wrong one.
They will have had the Landing site at Blacksod as a waypoint since it is a well-used refuel point.

Very unlikely to just mix up the lighthouses.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 19:51
  #452 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pfm1000 View Post
Plus it makes no sense they would land at Blackrock. It's uninhabited and there's no fuel. the lighthouse is solar powered.

There's a contract in place between Irish lights who operate the lighthouses and the coast guard to provide helipad and refuelling services on the western seaboard at the manned lighthouses at Blacksod and Castletownbere. i.e. they would not choose Blackrock.


Edit: Annex 12A of this document includes a site plan for Blacksod helipad. http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/fi...010-signed.pdf
Concise and correct. On available facts, there is no rational basis for a theory there was to be an intentional landing at Blackrock.

It seems that there is a sparsity of revealed comms for this operation. Surely there has been more communication than the Dublin departure ATC tape and the "Landing Blacksod" snippet?

Would anyone have the AIS track for R115? Had it gone out to the ship, or where was it?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 19:59
  #453 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
They will have had the Landing site at Blacksod as a waypoint since it is a well-used refuel point.
Indeed so - it would appear the same helicopters flew a very similar mission just five days earlier. Including both refueling at Blacksod.

The skies are desolately quiet without the crew of Rescue 116 - Independent.ie

Not necessarily the same crews, of course.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 20:09
  #454 (permalink)  
 
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Rescue 118 now landing at Blacksod after flying to Dublin to collect some equipment.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 20:27
  #455 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ber Nooly View Post
The words "It's a possibility" were referring to whether they needed to go out to the boat. They were not used in reference to landing at/on Blacksod helipad.

As pointed out, they need to play it by ear to some extent as things evolve. The lack of contact with R118 was obviously causing them to consider their options. Land the chopper, refuel it and make a plan of action.
Does anyone know the co-ordinates of where this boat was? Is it possible that the track we see from Dublin was a direct track to where the rescue was to take place? There is then the conversation where R116 says their plan is not to go to the ship, but it is a possibility. At that time there were com problems with R118, which seems to be some distance ahead of R116, who may not have known whether they might in fact have to go all the way out. If they remained unsure of what R118 was doing, they may have decided to go to Blacksod for fuel if standing top cover at the ship was still a possibility.

In that scenario we would have the Shannon convo taking place east of Blackrock, the decision to turn back resulting in the teardrop track, and then...?

Would they have launched direct the ship without needing a fuel stop, or would the fuel stop have been necessary with them considering that the status of R118 was uncertain and they would need full fuel to continue out to sea?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 20:35
  #456 (permalink)  
 
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Range

Originally Posted by cncpc View Post
Does anyone know the co-ordinates of where this boat was? Is it possible that the track we see from Dublin was a direct track to where the rescue was to take place? There is then the conversation where R116 says their plan is not to go to the ship, but it is a possibility. At that time there were com problems with R118, which seems to be some distance ahead of R116, who may not have known whether they might in fact have to go all the way out. If they remained unsure of what R118 was doing, they may have decided to go to Blacksod for fuel if standing top cover at the ship was still a possibility.

In that scenario we would have the Shannon convo taking place east of Blackrock, the decision to turn back resulting in the teardrop track, and then...?

Would they have launched direct the ship without needing a fuel stop, or would the fuel stop have been necessary with them considering that the status of R118 was uncertain and they would need full fuel to continue out to sea?
With 30‐minute reserve:
Range is 467 nm (865 km) with normal fuel
Range is 802 nm (1,485 km) with two 210‐gallon internal aux tanks
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 21:35
  #457 (permalink)  
 
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I believe on the Dublin ATC R116 took off heavy and also refused a vertical take off because of that.

At Black Sod Bay, the Le Samuel Beckett is now the lead ship.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 21:56
  #458 (permalink)  
 
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Also worthy of consideration is the "early" landing call to ATC by 116.....as they were some distance from ATC's location they may have made the "Landing Blacksod!" call while they were still high enough to have reliable comms with ATC.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 22:22
  #459 (permalink)  
 
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Prime Time at 9.30pm on RTE1 tv say they have new information about the collision avoidance system on Rescue 116, Prime Time is a current affairs programme it can be watched on your laptop through the RTE player, go to rte.ie/player
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 22:48
  #460 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Red5ive View Post
I believe on the Dublin ATC R116 took off heavy and also refused a vertical take off because of that.

At Black Sod Bay, the Le Samuel Beckett is now the lead ship.
If it intended to land at Blacksod before continuing on to the rescue site, there would have been no need to take off heavy.
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