What to buy?

[ranso]

I,m looking to buy a single turbine to use in the UK for pleasure/business having read lot's of comments and tried a MD500, first flew 206's but old ones, should I be looking at EC120?

Budget around £800K

Some of you guys will have gone through this process so any useful info would be appreciated?

[autobarnacle]

fohnwind

Very well said. The AS350 can be pricey but if you are willing to accept an older airframe then you can get one in your budget for initial purchase. Over time just spend a little on getting new interior.

[nellycopter]

You wouldn't be disappointed with the 120 if just pottering about,
The lack of power comes from people loading it up to the max.....
It's a great machine .... And cheaper to maintain than a 44 ..... Unless you need a new engine or other big lump.....

[maddmatt]

120 very easy to hot start and even easier to over torque :-)

[500e]

So apart from cramped in back a 500 seems to be the way to go fast, maneuverable, no worse than others if you have major problem, still made, parts are getting better as well

[catseye]

500c beats anything else hands down

[500e]

Agree in the back but never had need to walk around the front end once moving

[FLY 7]

A lot depends on your intended usage (noted that this is your first post):

- How many hours pa?
- Your Licence qualifications/experience?
- How many passengers normally carried?
- Luggage/cargo capacity?
- Average trip - range/speed requirements?
- Operating budget? - purchase price is only the beginning!
- Private/commercial/training/utility/SFH?
- Etc, etc.

Interestingly, I bought an EN480B six years ago, and I constantly look at EC120s/350s/MD500s etc, wondering if they would do a better job.

And, of course, in some areas they would. But, for my requirements, the EN480B does pretty much everything I need - for a lot less money.

[Loki696]

The hot starts I have seen, are from pilots starting the machine in their own way and not according to the FLM......
The same for overtorques loading the machine up and not respecting the limits

[maddmatt]

Maybe inexperience but you have to have your wits as it is very easy to over torque the 120, just needs a momentary lapse of concentration and bang you are over

[victor papa]

Originally Posted by maddmatt

Maybe inexperience but you have to have your wits as it is very easy to over torque the 120, just needs a momentary lapse of concentration and bang you are over

Is this on a 120 or your experience flying different 120's? We have 2 flying 6-8hrs everyday and we have never had a hotstart despite having to crank often before start or near a overtorque at sea level up to 35 degrees flying 4 pax with 1.5hrs fuel in the last year-we flew 1200hrs/machine since Sept last year and only issue we had was a mgb change 800hrs prematurely on the older machine after she stood for 4 yrs 169hrs ago.

So if a 120 you have a rigging/torque calibration issue. If you have hot starts you also have rigging/FCU issue-do you have the white line marked on the throttle at 22degrees N1 on the FCU for the start?

Out of 8 120's we know we have had no overtorque or hot start the last 8 yrs with great reliability and following Airbus maint almost no downtime except for 500hr/2yr 5 days and 12yrs 12-15wks with respray.

Yes engine 15yr a killer but we bought a loaner engine and thus will overhaul instead off service exchange which is much cheaper and we get 3000hr/15yr eng back and then shes a dream to operate.

Never had power issues but then we respect shes a 1.8tonner with a biiigggg boot, can take loads off fuel and 4 pax comfortably but as a 1.8tonner not all at once!

[John R81]

Best advice is to think carefully about what you want the machine for, then go and ride in anything still on the list.


I am with VP. Owned and operated 120s in the UK now for just under 10 years. One hot start - a SFH who treated it like a Jet Ranger. Cheaper to keep in the air than an R44 (I ran one alongside for a while, and I have the invoices to prove that the 120 is cheaper to maintain daily). Yes, there are costs for engine overhaul but any turbine will have that (according to its own schedule).


All the above says is; the 120 is the right machine for me. It does not make it the right machine for you. Anyway, your location just says "UK" but if you are anywhere near Redhill then PM me.

[ranso]

Thanks for all the input

I,m located Warwickshire Uk, looking to fly with one to four passengers would after more experience look to fly into France etc.

Total time only 200hrs.

Ec120 looking like a good bet???

[krypton_john]

I would have said EN480B every time but it's not good for four pax (can do in theory but not really good enough).

Same problem for MD500. Plus neither of the above have much baggage space.

That leaves R66, B206 and EC120.

AS350 is overkill and a lot more expensive to own.

Of R66, B206 and EC120 the latter would be by far the most comfortable especially for the passengers. Not much room for the centre passenger in the other two.

But if you want an easy life with lower costs and straight forward maintenance and parts then R66 or B206. The latter has the best safety record.

[victor papa]

John R81 looks like we have same experience.

We started with 1 120 and within 3mths another and due the money these 2 machines made flying the hrs they do at the reliability they do we now removed 206's and 44's as 120 more reliable and cheaper over 1200hr period by far and that included 12yrs. Actually 120's payed for a 130 which off course is just a beast. Love the 350 too but we noise sensitive so 120 was a big step and risk with all the negative vibes surrounding the type but it changed our whole business and opened many eyes once we operated her and as said as a 1.8tonner not expecting anything more. Passengers love them

[Hughes500]

No surprises on what machine I would go for but I think everyone is missing a stretched 341/342. way better than a 120 the speed of a 500 with baggage. Looks the business and is well supported by people like MW helicopters at Stapleford

[krypton_john]

Victor Papa and JohnR81 - interesting observations. Do you think your favourable experiences with the 120 would translate well to a private owner and less than say, 100 hrs per year?

[nigelh]

Some very good advice here . I have owned all of the types mentioned ( apart from Robbo,s or 120 ) and agree with all said , but would add that the 206 is on a steep downward slope re price . ( look at 505 thread !) . If it were me I would buy a very cheap 206 , or better still sfh one and put an order in for a 505 now . And if you go EC or AS be aware of engine costs as turbomeca can charge like a wounded Rhino !! Very good engines but go PBH if you possibly can . Enstrom lovely and easy for a beginner but slow slow slow !!!!

[Hedski]

ranso,

I'm local to you some of the time flying wise so if you want to chat about options send a PM.

H

[jellycopter]

NigeH
I'd have thought you'd try and persuade him of the merits of an N reg A109 A model!

JJ