What to buy?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Europe
or better still sfh one and put an order in for a 505 now . And if you go EC or AS be aware of engine costs as turbomeca can charge like a wounded Rhino !!
I'm sure they are as good in charging, no matter if it's their engine in a 120 or 505. Might be even better with 505's as they must've sold their engines cheap to get a contract with Bell. TM must be thinking 505 will sell like cupcakes and then it's just a waiting game to bump up the prices for individual clients once first machines are up to TBO...
At that point there will probably be few hundred machines out there without much other options but to pay whatever TM happens to ask...
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 959
Likes: 3
From: New Zealand
FinnRotor - the 505 has TM Arrius.
But the very exciting proposition is pay by the hour based engine and aircraft maintenance supported by Bell and Turbomeca - they are bandying around the $300/hr number which would be amazing.
But the very exciting proposition is pay by the hour based engine and aircraft maintenance supported by Bell and Turbomeca - they are bandying around the $300/hr number which would be amazing.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 114
Likes: 8
From: In the gutter..........
With an £800K budget, why just stick to singles. In today's market for that kind of money you should be able to get either 5 x EC225's, 12 x AS332L, 3 x 139 or an S92. 
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
Krypton John
My experience is that the running costs for an EC120 are cheaper than for an R44. If you have sole use & <100 hr then the cost per hour will be high due to the spread of fixed costs (insurance) and time-based maintenance. You need to do the maths, but an ex-training school R44 with fewer hours remaining to rebuild, but plenty of calendar time remaining, could be a cost-efficient option (only 4 seats).
If you want to do "cheap" (relative thing, cheap) then join a club and self-fly-hire.
For longer distances with passenger the 120 is fantastic. I have flown the length of UK & back next day with 4 + luggage, and over to France several times with 5 (light luggage). No complaints from any of the passengers as the cabin space is fantastic (not cramped with great views), noise levels are lower (though headphones still required) and very smooth.
The size of the 120 (5 seats), the baggage compartment and the fuel tanks mean that you can't fill all of them and stay inside MTOW. Every machine has its limitations.
My experience is that the running costs for an EC120 are cheaper than for an R44. If you have sole use & <100 hr then the cost per hour will be high due to the spread of fixed costs (insurance) and time-based maintenance. You need to do the maths, but an ex-training school R44 with fewer hours remaining to rebuild, but plenty of calendar time remaining, could be a cost-efficient option (only 4 seats).
If you want to do "cheap" (relative thing, cheap) then join a club and self-fly-hire.
For longer distances with passenger the 120 is fantastic. I have flown the length of UK & back next day with 4 + luggage, and over to France several times with 5 (light luggage). No complaints from any of the passengers as the cabin space is fantastic (not cramped with great views), noise levels are lower (though headphones still required) and very smooth.
The size of the 120 (5 seats), the baggage compartment and the fuel tanks mean that you can't fill all of them and stay inside MTOW. Every machine has its limitations.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 2
From: UK
I've just flown 25hrs in the last 3/4 weeks in a 120, what a fantastic machine, I cannot understand all the negative feedback directed at this Heli, it can only come from pilots who don't fly it !
There is no comparison between a 44 or 66, this is a serious helicopter, very accurate to fly, and once you understand the starting procedure and weight limitations your away
Would definitely recommend one
There is no comparison between a 44 or 66, this is a serious helicopter, very accurate to fly, and once you understand the starting procedure and weight limitations your away
Would definitely recommend one
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: uk
Thanks for all your comments.
I tried a 120 yesterday very impressed seemed a modern machine accurate and light to fly,felt that with a few hours use it would be a confidence building machine.
Seems the way forward.
I tried a 120 yesterday very impressed seemed a modern machine accurate and light to fly,felt that with a few hours use it would be a confidence building machine.
Seems the way forward.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: foot of a mountain
Congratulations-best thing to do is to go fly one and feel her to know whether you in the pro 120 or against club. Most plts I know loves the machine ones they fly her and fly her as a 120 and not a 206/44.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: ireland
505 Engine
Which engine will a 505 have? Dammit, just can't remember...
I'm sure they are as good in charging, no matter if it's their engine in a 120 or 505. Might be even better with 505's as they must've sold their engines cheap to get a contract with Bell. TM must be thinking 505 will sell like cupcakes and then it's just a waiting game to bump up the prices for individual clients once first machines are up to TBO... At that point there will probably be few hundred machines out there without much other options but to pay whatever TM happens to ask...
I'm sure they are as good in charging, no matter if it's their engine in a 120 or 505. Might be even better with 505's as they must've sold their engines cheap to get a contract with Bell. TM must be thinking 505 will sell like cupcakes and then it's just a waiting game to bump up the prices for individual clients once first machines are up to TBO...
At that point there will probably be few hundred machines out there without much other options but to pay whatever TM happens to ask...Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: foot of a mountain
Not exactly. The 505 gets a evolution from the 2F on the 120 benefitting from FADEC where 120 is still hydromechanical and higher maint intervals-follow the improvements on the 135 and you will see 120 has original hydro first design vs 505 like new 135 FADEC improved Arrius
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: foot of a mountain
Ranso pls let us know the end result as I for 1 am on the edge of my seat! As said you wont be disappointed with 120-just make sure your AMO maintain her as a modern Airbus and follow Airbus and TM maintenance schedule and dont take her apart unnecessarily and she will be a joy. Download from Airbus site the Technical data manual for reference of servicings and time required. A experienced 120 eng will do all quoted times in halve the time.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: uk
120 ticks boxes
My choice is the 120 it seems to perform adequately, flies smooth, may cost a little more to maintain very impressed with 2 axis Sargem autopilot should help with confidence in the cockpit?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
Best help for confidence in the cockpit is training and experience.
I haven't used any stability augmentation system so can't comment on what that system will do for you.
The whistles & bells I have added are:
Aircon - and I love it!!!
Emergency floats
Radar altimeter
Flymap L with synthetic vision
I was forced to add an ELT by regulations, but always preferred the PLB approach.
I tried to join the ADSB trial, but I would need to change the panel-mounted Garmin and cost became a factor.
I haven't used any stability augmentation system so can't comment on what that system will do for you.
The whistles & bells I have added are:
Aircon - and I love it!!!
Emergency floats
Radar altimeter
Flymap L with synthetic vision
I was forced to add an ELT by regulations, but always preferred the PLB approach.
I tried to join the ADSB trial, but I would need to change the panel-mounted Garmin and cost became a factor.
