Bristow S76 Ditched in Nigeria today Feb 3 2016
EEDSL I think your copilot is to be commended. Offshore flying is very routine and it is easy for complacency to drift in. Perhaps in that instance there was only one other deck in the vicinity, but in other occasions there may be several. It is all to easy to see an installation, talk to it, and thus be convinced it is the right one to land on, when in fact it is not. The only way out of this trap is to ALWAYS put the next destination in the GPS. It should be mandatory in you SOPs (it certainly is in Bristow) but if not, it is only a matter of time before you land on the wrong deck.
Personally I have taken off from the BraeA, early morning (never my strong point) turned left and pointed it at the next destination (BraeB) only to notice shortly afterwards that the GPS was pointing at something completely different. Yes, I was pointing at the Miller. Oops, but it happens. A good pilot (and good SOPs) does not rely on him being perfect, rather he builds in safeguards (error tolerance, if you like) so that one error doesn't become a catastrophe.
As I said, you should be thanking your cojoe not slagging him off for doing his job properly. If you had insufficient fuel to do the job properly without cutting corners, that was your fault.
Personally I have taken off from the BraeA, early morning (never my strong point) turned left and pointed it at the next destination (BraeB) only to notice shortly afterwards that the GPS was pointing at something completely different. Yes, I was pointing at the Miller. Oops, but it happens. A good pilot (and good SOPs) does not rely on him being perfect, rather he builds in safeguards (error tolerance, if you like) so that one error doesn't become a catastrophe.
As I said, you should be thanking your cojoe not slagging him off for doing his job properly. If you had insufficient fuel to do the job properly without cutting corners, that was your fault.
Went into Bristow one morning to do a Thistle trip. My co-pilot and I had done most of the planning and had passed the payload through when I was called into operations.
"Can you do a quick Forties instead of the Thistle because the RNAV is u/s on the Forties aircraft and the crew have refused to take it."
For this not familiar with the North Sea the Forties is about 95 miles off the coast and on a good day if you coast out high enough you can practically see it. Not only that the outbound and inbound routes are on separate VOR radials that are almost co-incidental to an NDB beacon. On top of that the Forties field is an unmistakable pattern of platforms which shouts at you via the weather radar.
The poor dears wouldn't have been able to find them.
We were back and in the bar at the Craighaar whilst they were refuelling on the Thistle.
"Can you do a quick Forties instead of the Thistle because the RNAV is u/s on the Forties aircraft and the crew have refused to take it."
For this not familiar with the North Sea the Forties is about 95 miles off the coast and on a good day if you coast out high enough you can practically see it. Not only that the outbound and inbound routes are on separate VOR radials that are almost co-incidental to an NDB beacon. On top of that the Forties field is an unmistakable pattern of platforms which shouts at you via the weather radar.
The poor dears wouldn't have been able to find them.
We were back and in the bar at the Craighaar whilst they were refuelling on the Thistle.
Outside of the causes of this particular accident which I have no personal view on owing to a lack of evidence at this time...
The arguments in this thread about automation vs hands on 'stick time' (and who therefore has a larger/ older/ better appendage) are very strange. I can't think of any other profession where people at the top would claim that they are so advanced that they don't need to worry about skills they learnt when they were training.
Can you imagine having a conversation like that with a lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer, etc? They'd laugh you out of the room. All add experience and expertise on top of basic skills they were taught when they started. Have we really evolved to such an extent that pilots are claiming that actually flying an ac with our hands is beneath them now because we are so advanced? These skill sets should complement each other, not be exclusive.
The arguments in this thread about automation vs hands on 'stick time' (and who therefore has a larger/ older/ better appendage) are very strange. I can't think of any other profession where people at the top would claim that they are so advanced that they don't need to worry about skills they learnt when they were training.
Can you imagine having a conversation like that with a lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer, etc? They'd laugh you out of the room. All add experience and expertise on top of basic skills they were taught when they started. Have we really evolved to such an extent that pilots are claiming that actually flying an ac with our hands is beneath them now because we are so advanced? These skill sets should complement each other, not be exclusive.
Last edited by nowherespecial; 29th Feb 2016 at 20:16. Reason: typo
Hey HC, Red or Brown sauce?
With that Chip?
Wow HC, steady on, take a breath.
You have jumped in fairly aggressively there.
No one was 'slagging' anybody - I believe I said his actions were laudable and we had enough fuel at that point as we were on the line, not below it.
Finally, the destination (and our recent departure point) was the only other rig in the Jubilee Field.
Have a think about your reaction there and take it as a free CRM lesson ;-)
From an old salt who has managed to stay away from the NS.....
Anyway, all valid points raised here and no surprises. Just be aware that there was an incident in the SNS due to an 'inexperienced' captain (despite having done the pre-requisite number of Winters) who still tried to use the upper modes even though they had been playing-up. A severe lack of logic and reasoning that very nearly had people swimming.
Wow HC, steady on, take a breath.
You have jumped in fairly aggressively there.
No one was 'slagging' anybody - I believe I said his actions were laudable and we had enough fuel at that point as we were on the line, not below it.
Finally, the destination (and our recent departure point) was the only other rig in the Jubilee Field.
Have a think about your reaction there and take it as a free CRM lesson ;-)
From an old salt who has managed to stay away from the NS.....
Anyway, all valid points raised here and no surprises. Just be aware that there was an incident in the SNS due to an 'inexperienced' captain (despite having done the pre-requisite number of Winters) who still tried to use the upper modes even though they had been playing-up. A severe lack of logic and reasoning that very nearly had people swimming.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Outside of the causes of this particular accident which I have no personal view on owing to a lack of evidence at this time...
The arguments in this thread about automation vs hands on 'stick time' (and who therefore has a larger/ older/ better appendage) are very strange. I can't think of any other profession where people at the top would claim that they are so advanced that they don't need to worry about skills they learnt when they were training.
Can you imagine having a conversation like that with a lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer, etc? They'd laugh you out of the room. All add experience and expertise on top of basic skills they were taught when they started. Have we really evolved to such an extent that pilots are claiming that actually flying an ac with our hands is beneath them now because we are so advanced? These skill sets should complement each other, not be exclusive.
The arguments in this thread about automation vs hands on 'stick time' (and who therefore has a larger/ older/ better appendage) are very strange. I can't think of any other profession where people at the top would claim that they are so advanced that they don't need to worry about skills they learnt when they were training.
Can you imagine having a conversation like that with a lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer, etc? They'd laugh you out of the room. All add experience and expertise on top of basic skills they were taught when they started. Have we really evolved to such an extent that pilots are claiming that actually flying an ac with our hands is beneath them now because we are so advanced? These skill sets should complement each other, not be exclusive.
With that Chip?
Wow HC, steady on, take a breath.
You have jumped in fairly aggressively there.
No one was 'slagging' anybody - I believe I said his actions were laudable and we had enough fuel at that point as we were on the line, not below it.
Finally, the destination (and our recent departure point) was the only other rig in the Jubilee Field.
Have a think about your reaction there and take it as a free CRM lesson ;-)
.
Wow HC, steady on, take a breath.
You have jumped in fairly aggressively there.
No one was 'slagging' anybody - I believe I said his actions were laudable and we had enough fuel at that point as we were on the line, not below it.
Finally, the destination (and our recent departure point) was the only other rig in the Jubilee Field.
Have a think about your reaction there and take it as a free CRM lesson ;-)
.
So my free CRM lesson to you is that if you add an insincere "laudable" to an otherwise sneering comment, it doesn't make it any better.
HC, when you reach the bottom of the hole, stop digging. I would rather see you recover some of the respect that I had for you than persevere with your disparaging comments throughout this thread.
Back to the thread: this photo has just been posted on Bristow Group FB site. Whilst it shows confidence in their operation by sending the CEO for a ride in an S76, it would send a much better message were they to release some basic details of the cause of the accident.
If only to stop the interminable posturing by some Rotorheads.
Bristow Group
Back to the thread: this photo has just been posted on Bristow Group FB site. Whilst it shows confidence in their operation by sending the CEO for a ride in an S76, it would send a much better message were they to release some basic details of the cause of the accident.
If only to stop the interminable posturing by some Rotorheads.
Bristow Group
CEO Jonathan Baliff met with employees, clients and government officials in Nigeria last week. Here's a quick pic of him readying for his non-revenue S-76 test flight at Port Harcourt.
John my disparaging comments are aimed at folk who can only bang on about how great things were when everything was hand flown using maps, and/or how Nigerian pilots are incompetent by definition and/or how automation is the root of all evil and/or diss their young copilots for doing their jobs properly. If such comments continue I will continue to disparage them.
As to any feelings of respect that is up to you, but I certainly won't be modifying my posts simply to win your respect. That would indeed deserve a lack of respect!
As to any feelings of respect that is up to you, but I certainly won't be modifying my posts simply to win your respect. That would indeed deserve a lack of respect!
Last edited by HeliComparator; 29th Feb 2016 at 23:18.
It looks like the driver of that non-revenue CEO confidence flight might be a white boy. If so, maybe the message intended might not be the message received. Just saying. I could be wrong.
Wasn't there a Super Puma lost in China
It basically jumped and they followed the instructions, ending up in the middle of nowhere.
After the Boeing 234 crash in 1986 Robert Maxwell had a flight and a photoshoot in a Chinook to show the world how confident he was in the helicopter.
Maxwell didn't last very long and the 234 soon left the North Sea.
I hope the CEO doesn't go yachting.
Maxwell didn't last very long and the 234 soon left the North Sea.
I hope the CEO doesn't go yachting.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Over the Hill and far away
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add to the comments on that accident, there was also a huge CRM issue between the two Captains plus the fact the wind was not being displayed on the route outbound.
Needless to say, helicopter pilots need to know the wind, whether it is indicated on a display or not. This is typical of what I am seeing in the recurrent training environment now, helicopter pilots get so mind-dumb with automation doing all the stuff helicopter pilots used to have to do as second nature, that basic skills such as figuring out the wind has gone to the wind. Fail a GPS and it's virtually game over now.
By the way...long shot, but any S76D training Captains out there with FAA that can do a differences course for two trainees in China in the next week or so??
By the way...long shot, but any S76D training Captains out there with FAA that can do a differences course for two trainees in China in the next week or so??
Gullibell - both you and GeoffersinCornwall have the same opinion of many pilots you see coming through your training systems and the low quality of their basic skills.
That is a worrying trend but there are some who just won't see that management of automation is best added to basic pilots skills - not used to replace them.
That is a worrying trend but there are some who just won't see that management of automation is best added to basic pilots skills - not used to replace them.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
That is a worrying trend but there are some who just won't see that management of automation is best added to basic pilots skills - not used to replace them.
Of course it is not a replacement for other more "traditional" pilot skills but it is just as important as them. That said some of these "traditional" pilot skills do eventually become redundant, as I have alluded this includes things like manual throttle control and even, on some types, the need to fly a manual ILS to near-perfection. No doubt other skills will become redundant in the future in the same way that use of a sextant has. It would be futile to expend a lot of effort maintaining a redundant skill.
