EC135 missing in NSW
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Thank you, cattletruck. That is exactly what I was pointing out, despite some previous posters accusing me of being inadequate, judgemental and jealous.
I am precisely none of those, thank you very much - I am a retired successful businessman who ran his own business from the day I left school at 16, a Vietnam veteran and military engineer - and I have spent more time in boardrooms dealing with senior corporate executives and cutting sizeable deals, than many previous posters are ever likely to do.
What I am pointing out, is that, regardless of the reason for the crash, CASA's narrative towards Richard Green will now be - "We tried for years to stop this gung-ho, rule-bending individual, from killing himself and his pax - because we could see the writing on the wall at every turn - and now he has succeeded - and we now have to cop flak, because we weren't harsh enough in our efforts to make his approach to flying become more safety-oriented".
nigelh, what is your narrative? "We don't need CASA looking over our shoulder, we know it all!"
"But he died doing what he loved!!"
Yes, he did - but the thing is, there was no need for him and his pax to die.
I wonder if your comments would be different if it was your partner, or your parents, that died with Richard Green?
Richard Green may have been a highly successful businessman, and a qualified nuclear physicist - but that doesn't necessarily translate to being a superb helicopter pilot with flight and pax safety as a priority.
Then again, numbers of people merely lives their lives, with the full intention of killing themselves well short of the regular allotted human lifespan.
And the numbers of highly successful businessmen who think they are Top Gun at the controls of an aircraft, because their large piles of money enabled them to easily purchase that high-dollar-value aircraft, is quite surprising.
I am precisely none of those, thank you very much - I am a retired successful businessman who ran his own business from the day I left school at 16, a Vietnam veteran and military engineer - and I have spent more time in boardrooms dealing with senior corporate executives and cutting sizeable deals, than many previous posters are ever likely to do.
What I am pointing out, is that, regardless of the reason for the crash, CASA's narrative towards Richard Green will now be - "We tried for years to stop this gung-ho, rule-bending individual, from killing himself and his pax - because we could see the writing on the wall at every turn - and now he has succeeded - and we now have to cop flak, because we weren't harsh enough in our efforts to make his approach to flying become more safety-oriented".
nigelh, what is your narrative? "We don't need CASA looking over our shoulder, we know it all!"
"But he died doing what he loved!!"
Yes, he did - but the thing is, there was no need for him and his pax to die.
I wonder if your comments would be different if it was your partner, or your parents, that died with Richard Green?
Richard Green may have been a highly successful businessman, and a qualified nuclear physicist - but that doesn't necessarily translate to being a superb helicopter pilot with flight and pax safety as a priority.
Then again, numbers of people merely lives their lives, with the full intention of killing themselves well short of the regular allotted human lifespan.
And the numbers of highly successful businessmen who think they are Top Gun at the controls of an aircraft, because their large piles of money enabled them to easily purchase that high-dollar-value aircraft, is quite surprising.
This country's helicopter crash record is littered with rich arrogant people who think that because they were successful at business, automatically makes them brilliant at everything else.
Whether they sit in the pilots seat or in the passenger seat telling the pilot what to do - they think they are ABOVE THE LAW and normal operating rules do not apply.
I suspect there are a couple of those "posers" here on Pprune, not to far away.........................
Luckily for most, they grow bored with their toy and move onto something else in which to kill themselves. But some simply remain and make lots of noise and bluster.
Whether they sit in the pilots seat or in the passenger seat telling the pilot what to do - they think they are ABOVE THE LAW and normal operating rules do not apply.
I suspect there are a couple of those "posers" here on Pprune, not to far away.........................
Luckily for most, they grow bored with their toy and move onto something else in which to kill themselves. But some simply remain and make lots of noise and bluster.
Agree 100% with TC above.
I've met and flown the odd millionaire/billionaire and normally they think the rules and weather don't apply to them.
The report will be interesting.
I've met and flown the odd millionaire/billionaire and normally they think the rules and weather don't apply to them.
The report will be interesting.
Now in the UK, ANYONE who clacks a blade, not once but twice - and then attempts a field repair as an UNqualified helicopter engineer - and then continues in flight; is most definitely guilty of gross negligence as a pilot
Some of you chaps seem to have quite severe difficulties reading the English language.
Richard Green was qualified, both legally and practically, for the maintenance work he did. By virtue of factory courses completed, and CASA issued MAs (Maintenance Approvals) Richard was probably the best qualified person in AU to work on an EC-135.
The field repair after the rotor strike to the EC-135 was done to manufacturer's specifications, using manufacturer approved materials, the aeroplane carried a repair kit in the flight spares for just such an eventuality.
As to the very selective CASA record, and his 6 month suspension, only somebody with experience of how CASA approaches the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) would understand how entirely subjective judgements on often highly reports on "airmanship" results in a license suspension.
As one example, removed from this case, available in the ATSB files, SW of Sydney a CFI of a local flying school reported an "airmiss" with another aircraft, and "reported" the other pilot. The result of the investigation was that the separation, in Class G airspace (based on radar data) was 3nm+ and 500' vertically on a CAVOK day. Near miss????
Have a look at the CASA "accusations" at the AAT, except for the wire strike, all were subjective, none were offenses against the regulations.
It is no secret that quite a few people did not like Richard, (especially several CASA employees) but since when is "liked" a prerequisite for holding a pilots license. If "being liked" was mandatory, I can think of a not so short short list of FOIs whose licenses should be suspended immediately.
Thomas, believe me, dealing with CASA is nothing like dealing with UK CAA or FAA , and I deal with all of them on a regular basis. Find a copy of the Forsyth Report into CASA ( one of the investigative team was ex-UK CAA Board), the results are absolutely damning, mistrust of the regulator was a virtually universal theme, from airlines down to individual respondents, like Richard Green.
It is amazing what a mean spirited bunch helicopter pilots are ...i would have thought there would be some sort of bond that stopped people from making accusations about a fellow ( dead ) pilot regarding his final flight . The theory that there is no smoke without fire is one that only the really low grade people use . I very much doubt the discussion would have been the same if he had not have been rich and owned his own machine . Some of you need to get over your own inadequacy and stop being jealous and judgmental . IF he flew when he should not have and it was pilot error im sure the AAIB will find out but give the bloke a chance !!!
I am aware that this is a rumour network and things are supposed to be discussed but this thread is just sad and disgusting for the most part! And I think it is below the usual standards of this board!
Edit: A guy who does a legal and proper field repair to his MR blade surely doesn't sound to me like "the odd millionaire/billionaire" who thinks "the rules and weather don't apply to them"...
The least bit you can do to respect the deceased is to stay on topic here!!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Are duplicate inspections not required down under?
Onetrack ...nigelh, what is your narrative? "We don't need CASA looking over our shoulder, we know it all!"
"But he died doing what he loved!!"
Yes, he did - but the thing is, there was no need for him and his pax to die.
I wonder if your comments would be different if it was your partner, or your parents, that died with Richard Green?
Im afraid i never said any of the things you attribute to me . You may be reasonably successful but understanding the written language is obviously not your forte !! I believe he MAY have been guilty of SOME of the things attributed to him , but it appears many where either not true or trumped up ...like the near miss in VFR . What we do not know is the precise reasons for the accident . It may have been pilot error , it may not . My problem is with you guys pronouncing him guilty before he has had a trial . The way you, and other types like TC, write means that you certainly "appear" to be jealous . You use language that screams jealous to me ....arrogant ,rich ,posers etc
Now maybe you made millions and bought a helicopter ..but TC as sure as hell didn't and it shows !!!!
As for myself ( as i assume TC was firing at me ! ) i have both worked as a pilot and owned many helicopters and employed many pilots . Maybe i am a "poser" but i still fly regularly , have never had any fine from the CAA but have been accused on two or three occasions of low flying / near miss of someones house ..etc which i am afraid is always going to happen when there are so many people out there who i guess would love a helicopter but cant afford one !!
I now am in no doubt at all at the sort of things that the charitable lot here will say the day i stove in ...God forbid . So TC , Onetrack ...why not just wait , and then you can go for the jugular if it is proven he messed up .
Also, i for one would not believe much CASA have to say on the subject of a man they see as a maverick .
"But he died doing what he loved!!"
Yes, he did - but the thing is, there was no need for him and his pax to die.
I wonder if your comments would be different if it was your partner, or your parents, that died with Richard Green?
Im afraid i never said any of the things you attribute to me . You may be reasonably successful but understanding the written language is obviously not your forte !! I believe he MAY have been guilty of SOME of the things attributed to him , but it appears many where either not true or trumped up ...like the near miss in VFR . What we do not know is the precise reasons for the accident . It may have been pilot error , it may not . My problem is with you guys pronouncing him guilty before he has had a trial . The way you, and other types like TC, write means that you certainly "appear" to be jealous . You use language that screams jealous to me ....arrogant ,rich ,posers etc
Now maybe you made millions and bought a helicopter ..but TC as sure as hell didn't and it shows !!!!
As for myself ( as i assume TC was firing at me ! ) i have both worked as a pilot and owned many helicopters and employed many pilots . Maybe i am a "poser" but i still fly regularly , have never had any fine from the CAA but have been accused on two or three occasions of low flying / near miss of someones house ..etc which i am afraid is always going to happen when there are so many people out there who i guess would love a helicopter but cant afford one !!
I now am in no doubt at all at the sort of things that the charitable lot here will say the day i stove in ...God forbid . So TC , Onetrack ...why not just wait , and then you can go for the jugular if it is proven he messed up .
Also, i for one would not believe much CASA have to say on the subject of a man they see as a maverick .
Are duplicate inspections not required down under?
Yes Sid, they are required in Australia.
Having a blade strike, I would be worried about drivetrain damage.
Yes Sid, they are required in Australia.
Having a blade strike, I would be worried about drivetrain damage.
Bit misleading in your answer, are you not?
There is only a narrow range of matters that require a duplicate inspection. A duplicate inspection can generally be done by a suitably licensed pilot. Caroline Green was licensed pilot, rated on the EC-135
As to "drive train damage", ever heard of manufacturer's guidelines for assessing damage and the resultant required inspections. That was what was applied, the factory clearly agreed with the assessment.
I would hate to being paying the bills for maintenance based on somebodies' "worries", rather than the manufacturer's instructions for continuing airworthiness.
I would dispute that Richard Green was a cowboy, as an engineer he was meticulous, he had the best equipped workshop I have seen (see previous posts by me) and re. flying, all the accusations at the AAT were subjective judgements, not breaches of regulations.
There are some very narrow minded people in aviation in Australia, who have lived in such a stultified and sheltered environment all their lives, that they believe their "take" on acceptable behavior under the general heading of "airmanship" is definitive, when in fact, a pilot from US or UK would find it unrealistically narrow minded and parochial. If the average Australian assessment to VMC/VFR was followed in UK, for example, quite a deal of GA VFR flight would not happen. Does that make those pilots in UK guilty of the offense of "poor airmanship"?? NO!!
Who has got it right?? Just compare US air safety outcomes to Australia, that will answer the question.
As I have already said, if being "disliked" was disqualifying as a condition for a pilots license, quite a few would probably be out in the cold, with a significant number of CASA FOIs top of the list.
Tootle pip!!
TC still talking out his backside!
TC,
Just have to be the Prick don't you.....as we say in my part of the World...it is the empty barrel that makes the most noise!
It is back to the Peanut Gallery for you....as your posts do not merit reading!
Just have to be the Prick don't you.....as we say in my part of the World...it is the empty barrel that makes the most noise!
It is back to the Peanut Gallery for you....as your posts do not merit reading!
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LeadSled
Of course I know when a Duplicate is required and who can perform one.
I don't know the Pilot concerned or his wife or their qualifications other than what I have speed read on this gossip thread.
My own "worries" have kept me alive since I have had a CPL / ATPL, 35 years, maintenance bills notwithstanding.
Since I said nothing else about the Pilot or his "operation" I consider that the rest of your post must be directed at someone else.
Tootle Pip indeed
Of course I know when a Duplicate is required and who can perform one.
I don't know the Pilot concerned or his wife or their qualifications other than what I have speed read on this gossip thread.
My own "worries" have kept me alive since I have had a CPL / ATPL, 35 years, maintenance bills notwithstanding.
Since I said nothing else about the Pilot or his "operation" I consider that the rest of your post must be directed at someone else.
Tootle Pip indeed
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This thread is a bit disgraceful. A bunch of children either whining about CASA or stabbing each other in the back. Three seemingly respectable people have died and not one poster on this thread has ANY idea why the accident happened!
Quite why this should provoke so much hostility, prejudice and childish behaviour is a mystery.
Quite why this should provoke so much hostility, prejudice and childish behaviour is a mystery.
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Double Bogey
I agree
never heard anyone anywhere anytime armed with so little information or having taken so little time to read information from 'events' past throw so many daggers and slander a person so much.
Plenty of people on this thread I would not like to share a life raft with
Makes you really want to be a pilot when you think you may end up sitting next to some of these people here
I agree
never heard anyone anywhere anytime armed with so little information or having taken so little time to read information from 'events' past throw so many daggers and slander a person so much.
Plenty of people on this thread I would not like to share a life raft with
Makes you really want to be a pilot when you think you may end up sitting next to some of these people here
DB
Well said, I have seen more manners and civility at a children's tea party. If this is the way this forum is going not really sure I want to be known as a helicopter pilot. Jesus guys you really do know how to bring our community to a place it should never be
Well said, I have seen more manners and civility at a children's tea party. If this is the way this forum is going not really sure I want to be known as a helicopter pilot. Jesus guys you really do know how to bring our community to a place it should never be
Thread Starter
Having known Richard for more than 30 years I am finding some of the ill informed and judgmental comments here to be both in poor taste and quite offensive.
LeadSled has explained quite succinctly that despite assumptions otherwise from those outside Australia, Richard went to great expense to have himself qualified by the manufacturer to carry out his own maintenance on his own machine, which was then ratified by CASA who issued him a Maintenance Authority to carry out such maintenance. Not only that but he spent a fortune on the tooling and parts needed to carry out such maintenance, and carried Eurocopter kits with him whilst flying into the bush to ensure that he could fix any snags whilst in designated remote areas. Snide comments by TC about the UKs accident stats with 'rich people' has no validity down under.
I suggest that discussion about this tragic loss of life come back to a reasonable discussion about known facts, and less speculative character assassination from some who have basically no idea what they are talking about.
LeadSled has explained quite succinctly that despite assumptions otherwise from those outside Australia, Richard went to great expense to have himself qualified by the manufacturer to carry out his own maintenance on his own machine, which was then ratified by CASA who issued him a Maintenance Authority to carry out such maintenance. Not only that but he spent a fortune on the tooling and parts needed to carry out such maintenance, and carried Eurocopter kits with him whilst flying into the bush to ensure that he could fix any snags whilst in designated remote areas. Snide comments by TC about the UKs accident stats with 'rich people' has no validity down under.
I suggest that discussion about this tragic loss of life come back to a reasonable discussion about known facts, and less speculative character assassination from some who have basically no idea what they are talking about.
+1.
(For content: Plus one.)
(For content: Plus one.)
I can't help but feel that many don't realise that "Araldite" make many products including epoxy resins for fibreglass products. The Jabiru for example has many structural components based on Araldite LC3600 epoxy resin and this is the resin used during contruction by the builder for joining components. It's BLOODY strong.
Quoting "Araldite" gives the impression of glueing up a "quick fix" which is not the case.
Quoting "Araldite" gives the impression of glueing up a "quick fix" which is not the case.
So let me get this right:
A helicopter pilot factory authorised to repair a blade, has a blade strike miles from anywhere (otherwise he would have easily been able to recover it by road)
He then fixes it with araldite or whatever, rings the factory to tell them what he has done and uses his wife to do the duplicate inspection and goes on his merry way.
Oh - nearly forgot - he does this not once but again on another occasion.
Are you advocates from Aussie, telling me this is acceptable practice?
A helicopter pilot factory authorised to repair a blade, has a blade strike miles from anywhere (otherwise he would have easily been able to recover it by road)
He then fixes it with araldite or whatever, rings the factory to tell them what he has done and uses his wife to do the duplicate inspection and goes on his merry way.
Oh - nearly forgot - he does this not once but again on another occasion.
Are you advocates from Aussie, telling me this is acceptable practice?
So let me get this right:
A helicopter pilot factory authorised to repair a blade, has a blade strike miles from anywhere (otherwise he would have easily been able to recover it by road)
He then fixes it with araldite or whatever, rings the factory to tell them what he has done and uses his wife to do the duplicate inspection and goes on his merry way.
Oh - nearly forgot - he does this not once but again on another occasion.
A helicopter pilot factory authorised to repair a blade, has a blade strike miles from anywhere (otherwise he would have easily been able to recover it by road)
He then fixes it with araldite or whatever, rings the factory to tell them what he has done and uses his wife to do the duplicate inspection and goes on his merry way.
Oh - nearly forgot - he does this not once but again on another occasion.
A helicopter pilot with a Maintenance Approval to give him all the privileges of an LAME issued by the NAA CASA.
Are we talking about a huge crack in the blade or a PU tape maybe lifted or split after a minor impact with something?
Roads or what you may be familiar with as what is described as a road are rare in Australia.
Fixes it with Araldite or whatever - Araldite is in the EC135 AMM Consumable Materials list along with lots of "whatever" as well.
Rings the factory and tells them what he has done - possibly after he had actually done the repair in accordance with the
maintenance manual after reading the damage limits? Evidence that the limits were not exceeded would be indicated
by the fact that no further action was required after consultation with ECD?
Uses his wife to do the "duplicate inspection" - wouldn't be required. Although as a licensed and type rated pilot she would have been fully entitled to if required.
Are you advocates from Aussie, telling me this is acceptable practice?
I met Richard on a few occasions in passing back when he operated a Gazelle.
Eccentric maybe but certainly no idiot.
So its back to the Mail Online TC - nothing to see here.