Grand Canyon Accident: Pilot killed in AS350 rollover
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Most careless consequences have happened to me when I was in a hurry or rushed. I suspect this unfortunate pilot realized too late that he would have been better served had he taken the extra minute or two to idle down and properly secure the controls before unzipping. And yes, it could have happened to me. RIP.
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You mean the pilot who has posted dozens of pictures of his 350 running without him on board (and without receiving any comments like on these 3 pages above) ?
yes, should be interesting.
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A comment from "Vertical Freedom" re TC's comment would be interesting.
yes, should be interesting.
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Well done TC, you have been reading that 'win friends and influence people' book again
please bear in mind somebody else might be carrying already the pilots genes. There are more things in life than to be the 'perfect' pilot.
Devil 49, Alouette, thanks for explaining the 350 bits and "if you need to get out" points to me.
The older I get, the more empathy I have for folks with small bladder capacities.
I too have to go pee more often. If that's the root cause ... arggggh.
The older I get, the more empathy I have for folks with small bladder capacities.
I too have to go pee more often. If that's the root cause ... arggggh.
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Helicopters have undertaken flight on their own volition all down the ages and it is not just the 350 series that has done so. Not so long ago it was an Osprey that did that as I recall.
I do admire the clairvoyance of some of you that post here.
Where did the NTSB say the Pilot was watering the tail boom?
I do admire the clairvoyance of some of you that post here.
Where did the NTSB say the Pilot was watering the tail boom?
Witnesses reported that the pilot landed and was planning on exiting the helicopter to perform a "fluid level check." After landing, the pilot exited the running helicopter; shortly thereafter the helicopter became airborne without the pilot at the flight controls. The helicopter subsequently impacted the ground and rolled over. The pilot was struck by one or more of the main rotor blades and was fatally injured.
BB -NTSB did not, no one on the forum did, it was a mere postulation of a possible set of circumstances - "rumour" forum after all. Whatever the cause, a very sad outcome.
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It was Shy who first broached the thought and it was carried on from there.
I am quite sure at least two of us have done exactly the same thing during our flying careers so nothing new or unusual there. Sometimes that second cup of Tea just cannot wait for a second exposure to the air.
I've never heard of a fluid levels check being done rotors running on any type of helicopter. Maybe it was a personal "fluids relief" stop?
I am quite sure at least two of us have done exactly the same thing during our flying careers so nothing new or unusual there. Sometimes that second cup of Tea just cannot wait for a second exposure to the air.
But is it worth losing your life for???
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Crab,
One of these days you might just have to get out and work for a living flying helicopters and your cozy RAF World view will be completely shattered.
I can promise you that somewhere around this big ol' World we live in there is some helicopter pilot somewhere doing exactly what we are talking about. Out of the tens of thousands of occasions each year Pilots do this without harm or foul go completely unremarked upon.
One of the greatest hurtles Military Pilots encounter when they try to take up Civvie Flying is accepting the fact they are not still in the Military, are not Officers, and that there is a completely different way of doing things than the way they so used to doing.
In all the time pprune Rotorheads has been around, I would bet you this is the exact first time this kind of thing has happened.
Any of you old time, long time Utility Pilots know of any other similar event where a Pilot was killed by his helicopter taking off without him?
Now let's see......how many Pilots have been killed in the UK in the past couple of Years from the same old mistakes?
One of these days you might just have to get out and work for a living flying helicopters and your cozy RAF World view will be completely shattered.
I can promise you that somewhere around this big ol' World we live in there is some helicopter pilot somewhere doing exactly what we are talking about. Out of the tens of thousands of occasions each year Pilots do this without harm or foul go completely unremarked upon.
One of the greatest hurtles Military Pilots encounter when they try to take up Civvie Flying is accepting the fact they are not still in the Military, are not Officers, and that there is a completely different way of doing things than the way they so used to doing.
In all the time pprune Rotorheads has been around, I would bet you this is the exact first time this kind of thing has happened.
Any of you old time, long time Utility Pilots know of any other similar event where a Pilot was killed by his helicopter taking off without him?
Now let's see......how many Pilots have been killed in the UK in the past couple of Years from the same old mistakes?
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Bob, while Crab and I enjoy a healthy debate, I think as a long term SAR pilot, having risked his and his crews necks for more than a few Darwinian candidates in his time you could hardly accuse him of not flying for a living.
For the poor guy in this accident it's a brutal way to learn a lesson. Terrible way to go and sorry for him and his family.
Bob I just love they way you yanks have it so tough and wear that like a badge of honour. In dear old Blighty we call that Inverted Snobbery! Enjoy your gutter!
DB
For the poor guy in this accident it's a brutal way to learn a lesson. Terrible way to go and sorry for him and his family.
Bob I just love they way you yanks have it so tough and wear that like a badge of honour. In dear old Blighty we call that Inverted Snobbery! Enjoy your gutter!
DB
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Witnesses reported that the pilot landed and was planning on exiting the helicopter to perform a "fluid level check." After landing, the pilot exited the running helicopter; shortly thereafter the helicopter became airborne without the pilot at the flight controls.
For instance, how would witnesses know the pilot's intentions? Did he stroll over to them and explain this? If not then that statement must surely be speculation - i.e. guesswork at best.
What on earth is a "fluid level check"? I've never heard of such a thing.
How could a helo possibly get airborne at ground idle - or did he get out with Nr at 100% - which sounds too far-fetched to be even considered for a moment?
Either way in my time in Squirrels it was absolutely forbidden to leave them rotors running, unlike the 206 where this was done routinely. Can't for the life of me remember why not, but that was the case in my company.
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DB,
Ever the Wit you are.
Dim.....but a Wit.
You insult the Dead, inject true Snobbery into the discussion, and manage to be xenophobic all at the same time. Well played.
When I hear Crab tell us about slinging all day long daylight to dark, rigging his own loads, hand pumping his own fuel, and doing his own DI's, while living in a Geologist's Fly Camp, then I will accede to the fact he has "worked" for a living.
I did that in a country not my own, while employed by an Operator that had letters on the Tail Booms (not numbers). Nothing "Yank" about that operation except for me.
Ever the Wit you are.
Dim.....but a Wit.
You insult the Dead, inject true Snobbery into the discussion, and manage to be xenophobic all at the same time. Well played.
When I hear Crab tell us about slinging all day long daylight to dark, rigging his own loads, hand pumping his own fuel, and doing his own DI's, while living in a Geologist's Fly Camp, then I will accede to the fact he has "worked" for a living.
I did that in a country not my own, while employed by an Operator that had letters on the Tail Booms (not numbers). Nothing "Yank" about that operation except for me.
When all of the fine gentlemen stop pissing on one another's beer glass, we can perhaps inquire as to the METAR for this incident.
Sobering thought: killed by a blade strike. That's something none of us would wish on anyone. *shudder*
For FH: does one consider bringing along an empty 1 or 2 quart Gatorade bottle with lid, for pressure relief requirements? I've done that on long road trips when I didn't want to stop driving.
I just noticed this from the NTSB initial report.
ELT: not up to parl or did someone move it?
Sobering thought: killed by a blade strike. That's something none of us would wish on anyone. *shudder*
For FH: does one consider bringing along an empty 1 or 2 quart Gatorade bottle with lid, for pressure relief requirements? I've done that on long road trips when I didn't want to stop driving.
I just noticed this from the NTSB initial report.
The helicopter was equipped with a 406-mhz Emergency Location Transmitter (ELT). The Armed Forces Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC) received the ELT activation at 2300z (1600 hours mountain standard time.) The first activation did not have any latitude or longitude information. However, the second activation was received at 2329z, which was 29 minutes after the accident with lat/lon data that was 1,500 yards north of the accident site.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 29th May 2014 at 23:08.
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Here is another somewhat similar event:
NTSB Identification: NYC08LA028.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Accident occurred Friday, November 09, 2007 in Morristown, TN
Probable Cause Approval Date: 04/30/2008
Aircraft: Bell 407, registration: N555BH
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
After arriving at the destination airport, the pilot taxied the helicopter to the fuel pumps. The pilot then realized that the fuel pumps were for aviation gasoline and not for jet fuel, so he advised the passengers that he would assist them in unloading, and then reposition the helicopter to the other fuel pump. After carrying the passengers' bags and using the restroom at the fixed base operator, the pilot returned to the helicopter. While walking toward the unoccupied helicopter, the pilot was struck by the idling main rotor. The helicopter's rotorcraft flight manual did not describe a procedure for the pilot to exit the helicopter while the engine and rotor continued to operate, but did state that during shutdown the pilot should, "Remain on the flight controls until the rotor has come to a complete stop." Additionally, post-accident examination of the helicopter revealed that the cyclic friction lock was not tightened, which contradicted with the flight manual's shutdown checklist. The substance found during the post-mortem toxicological testing of the pilot would not normally be expected to cause impairment of psychomotor or cognitive functions.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot's failure to maintain adequate clearance from the idling main rotor blade. Contributing to the accident was the pilot's failure to comply with the manufacturer's procedure for securing the helicopter.
While perhaps harsh to describe this as Darwin at work, it seems not inappropriate.
NTSB Identification: NYC08LA028.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Accident occurred Friday, November 09, 2007 in Morristown, TN
Probable Cause Approval Date: 04/30/2008
Aircraft: Bell 407, registration: N555BH
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
After arriving at the destination airport, the pilot taxied the helicopter to the fuel pumps. The pilot then realized that the fuel pumps were for aviation gasoline and not for jet fuel, so he advised the passengers that he would assist them in unloading, and then reposition the helicopter to the other fuel pump. After carrying the passengers' bags and using the restroom at the fixed base operator, the pilot returned to the helicopter. While walking toward the unoccupied helicopter, the pilot was struck by the idling main rotor. The helicopter's rotorcraft flight manual did not describe a procedure for the pilot to exit the helicopter while the engine and rotor continued to operate, but did state that during shutdown the pilot should, "Remain on the flight controls until the rotor has come to a complete stop." Additionally, post-accident examination of the helicopter revealed that the cyclic friction lock was not tightened, which contradicted with the flight manual's shutdown checklist. The substance found during the post-mortem toxicological testing of the pilot would not normally be expected to cause impairment of psychomotor or cognitive functions.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot's failure to maintain adequate clearance from the idling main rotor blade. Contributing to the accident was the pilot's failure to comply with the manufacturer's procedure for securing the helicopter.
While perhaps harsh to describe this as Darwin at work, it seems not inappropriate.
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There's a bit more to that report about the 407 strike than is mentioned there.
If you are in a Bell product and for whatever reason need to get out of the aircraft with it running categorically DO NOT turn of the hydraulic switch and think that that will prevent the controls and therefore the disc from moving.
If you are in a Bell product and for whatever reason need to get out of the aircraft with it running categorically DO NOT turn of the hydraulic switch and think that that will prevent the controls and therefore the disc from moving.
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Well said Crab. There's a difference between it's done all the time and it's a smart practice. There's also a difference between leaving an idle but running helo alone in the bush and leaving an idle but running helo with passengers still inside.
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If you are in a Bell product and for whatever reason need to get out of the aircraft with it running categorically DO NOT turn of the hydraulic switch and think that that will prevent the controls and therefore the disc from moving.
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Bob excuse me but I did not insult the dead?
Surely this practice is ripe for a little bit of risk management!
For instance, as mentioned in this thread getting out after start to check for oil leaks, where are the ground crew? If you are involved in helicopter operations that are so tight for margins that you have no ground support to hook up a load WTF! If you have no time to shutdown and piss WTF!
I do not believe ANY helicopter flight manual allows the pilot to leave the controls with the rotor under power. In JAR-EASA Land this is further expressly forbidden by the rules. In addition, Aerial work manuals need to specify adequate manpower for load lifting etc which rules out any requirement for pilots to engage in what surely must be recognised by any sensible proffessional pilot as utter folly.
Again we have the "seasoned old sweats" claim how "essential" this is to their small time underfunded operations and how those of us who are quite rightly appalled that any rational person would consider this are pussies who do not work for a living.......Errr NO, it is just excessive risk taken for all the wrong reasons!
As for a fluids check!! What cobblers, you cannot see any levels in gearboxes that are turning!!
Hydrualics OFF/ON, frictions OFF/ON, ground idle Vs flight Idle. Just look at the ludicrous advice in this thread. Here's my contribution. If you are engaged in an operation that involves you doing this STOP IT you are breaking the law and risking yours and anyone else involved life.
Finally all small helicopters are certified with a human in the pilot seat. Removing the human with rotors turning puts the helicopter in an untested part of the flight envelope. All sorts of problems like ground resonance, dynamic roll over become possible.
I can think of few horrific ways to check out than being savaged by your own main rotor.
Surely this practice is ripe for a little bit of risk management!
For instance, as mentioned in this thread getting out after start to check for oil leaks, where are the ground crew? If you are involved in helicopter operations that are so tight for margins that you have no ground support to hook up a load WTF! If you have no time to shutdown and piss WTF!
I do not believe ANY helicopter flight manual allows the pilot to leave the controls with the rotor under power. In JAR-EASA Land this is further expressly forbidden by the rules. In addition, Aerial work manuals need to specify adequate manpower for load lifting etc which rules out any requirement for pilots to engage in what surely must be recognised by any sensible proffessional pilot as utter folly.
Again we have the "seasoned old sweats" claim how "essential" this is to their small time underfunded operations and how those of us who are quite rightly appalled that any rational person would consider this are pussies who do not work for a living.......Errr NO, it is just excessive risk taken for all the wrong reasons!
As for a fluids check!! What cobblers, you cannot see any levels in gearboxes that are turning!!
Hydrualics OFF/ON, frictions OFF/ON, ground idle Vs flight Idle. Just look at the ludicrous advice in this thread. Here's my contribution. If you are engaged in an operation that involves you doing this STOP IT you are breaking the law and risking yours and anyone else involved life.
Finally all small helicopters are certified with a human in the pilot seat. Removing the human with rotors turning puts the helicopter in an untested part of the flight envelope. All sorts of problems like ground resonance, dynamic roll over become possible.
I can think of few horrific ways to check out than being savaged by your own main rotor.