UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4
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SS - please do some of us "non-plebs" a favour & translate the last transmission into English? Not everyone watches Eastenders with a cockney dictionary to hand, if at all!
On a more general note, it does seem as if there's a vehicle running along on different sized wheels, not all of which are properly attached at the moment. Is there a stinger ahead?
On a more general note, it does seem as if there's a vehicle running along on different sized wheels, not all of which are properly attached at the moment. Is there a stinger ahead?
Last edited by zorab64; 7th Jan 2015 at 12:22. Reason: Add stuff possibly relevant to the thread!
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With a further round of budget cuts coming their way, can the MPS afford to turn their back on NPAS?
What if the Home Office stop funding them?
Will MPS make up that shortfall in the face of "Free Cash" from the Home Office if you spend it with our preferred supplier?
If they do, how many Union members will need to be made redundant to cover the retention of the MPS "go it alone" ASU?
What if the Home Office stop funding them?
Will MPS make up that shortfall in the face of "Free Cash" from the Home Office if you spend it with our preferred supplier?
If they do, how many Union members will need to be made redundant to cover the retention of the MPS "go it alone" ASU?
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airpolice - Perhaps they've decided that some things are more important than simply the bottom line.
In a world where the price of everything is known and the value of little is understood it is good to see that, perhaps, there are those willing to stand up for what they believe to be right.
In a world where the price of everything is known and the value of little is understood it is good to see that, perhaps, there are those willing to stand up for what they believe to be right.
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airpolice
As far as I am aware the Home Office stopped funding the Met years ago. The London tax payers foot the bill, which might explain why the Met is in no hurry to join NPAS. Besides the MPs and financiers wouldn't stand for a degraded service covering their home turf would they?
As far as I am aware the Home Office stopped funding the Met years ago. The London tax payers foot the bill, which might explain why the Met is in no hurry to join NPAS. Besides the MPs and financiers wouldn't stand for a degraded service covering their home turf would they?
I could well eat my own words but there is a truth there about balls etc.
On their side in all this is a fact that is strange to the NPAS crew. The Met alone have a number of income and interest streams. Yes there is Home Office money that they and the others now in, or nearly in, NPAS have had to beg for but there are other important elements pulling the strings here and the strongest was just enacted out in Paris today.
There may be some general bleating about delays in sending messages via West Yorkshire but I have serious doubts that any government want their direct air support over Whitehall seriously endangered by adding a layer of decision making in a remote control room that may well put the Government of the day in additional mortal danger.
Its not just that either, historically the Met was always integral in the Defence of this country - even their 1930s Autogiros were written into Dowding's Air Defence of Great Britain - a factor that might be well understood in Northern Ireland. They are NOT in NPAS for many of the self same reasons.
Rumour suggests that the architect of all this thinks its gone too far when it affects what are now his men and maybe he is not to enamoured in placing the grand strategy with the former representative of a police force [Kent] that has a glorious aviation history centred around the Cessna 172 and an annual budget of £25,000 and plans that were a pipe dream called HERTI.
It seems that Gouli posted similar thoughts as I did...
On their side in all this is a fact that is strange to the NPAS crew. The Met alone have a number of income and interest streams. Yes there is Home Office money that they and the others now in, or nearly in, NPAS have had to beg for but there are other important elements pulling the strings here and the strongest was just enacted out in Paris today.
There may be some general bleating about delays in sending messages via West Yorkshire but I have serious doubts that any government want their direct air support over Whitehall seriously endangered by adding a layer of decision making in a remote control room that may well put the Government of the day in additional mortal danger.
Its not just that either, historically the Met was always integral in the Defence of this country - even their 1930s Autogiros were written into Dowding's Air Defence of Great Britain - a factor that might be well understood in Northern Ireland. They are NOT in NPAS for many of the self same reasons.
Rumour suggests that the architect of all this thinks its gone too far when it affects what are now his men and maybe he is not to enamoured in placing the grand strategy with the former representative of a police force [Kent] that has a glorious aviation history centred around the Cessna 172 and an annual budget of £25,000 and plans that were a pipe dream called HERTI.
It seems that Gouli posted similar thoughts as I did...
Last edited by PANews; 7th Jan 2015 at 23:20. Reason: Comment on newer post by Gouli
As far as I am aware the Home Office stopped funding the Met years ago.
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So.... you might well take from that, the notion at Lippets Hill is that NPAS is so bad, that it's worth millions a year just not to have anything to do with them!
It would be a winner for NPAS as well, £2.4 million a year for doing nothing.
It would be a winner for NPAS as well, £2.4 million a year for doing nothing.
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Hi,
I realise I'm brand new and will ultimately gain mistrust to begin with so let me introduce myself before I contiune!!
For the last 9 years I've been trying to keep the queens peace in a county that borders london. Before that I was cabin crew for a low cost airline that originates in Ireland. I have a huge fascination/interest in aviation and have just applied as a TFO for NPAS.... Which incidentally is probably the only specialty I want to do!
Assuming I pass the the paper sift, I was hoping if anyone here would be able to give me any pointers/help or guidance on revision for the assessment day.
I've just started learning OS map symbols and on my awareness day I got to grips quite quickly learning flight tracking, working out mileage and times. I appreciate its fairly basic but it's a start!
Is there any advice and revision tips/sites anyone could reccomend? I'm not asking for assessment day secrets, just any help would be massively appreciated, I know there are some long serving guys in here and I 'd be grateful for the help.
I realise I'm brand new and will ultimately gain mistrust to begin with so let me introduce myself before I contiune!!
For the last 9 years I've been trying to keep the queens peace in a county that borders london. Before that I was cabin crew for a low cost airline that originates in Ireland. I have a huge fascination/interest in aviation and have just applied as a TFO for NPAS.... Which incidentally is probably the only specialty I want to do!
Assuming I pass the the paper sift, I was hoping if anyone here would be able to give me any pointers/help or guidance on revision for the assessment day.
I've just started learning OS map symbols and on my awareness day I got to grips quite quickly learning flight tracking, working out mileage and times. I appreciate its fairly basic but it's a start!
Is there any advice and revision tips/sites anyone could reccomend? I'm not asking for assessment day secrets, just any help would be massively appreciated, I know there are some long serving guys in here and I 'd be grateful for the help.
Pedigree & background looks promising and you are asking the right questions! But remember at the end of the day its all about policing, not flying, so being a good operational thieftaker is paramount. The flying bit just helps you to do that. Sadly I am now too far out of it to be able to assist. But go for it!
TF
TF
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I have not been on here for a while mainly as I retired from the Police and the great job on Air Support and my new "life" means I am pretty busy doing other "serving the folk stuff"! Anyway in my new role I have had the chance to speak to the odd PCC now and then.
Yesterday wAs a chance to ask a PCC who is on the NPAS team what he knew about the Met, he told me they ARE NOT joining and NPAS is a bit of a mess, they are £1 million overspent and need sorting out..... Thats a shock
West Yorks are not giving up the host force job but it looks like that (as I was told) "flying to burn off hours" has to stop, in fact reining in hours is what I seemed to be getting from him. He also said he thought that NPAS / Police should use Drones for photographic work rather than helicopters....I pointed out that a Drone may well be useful in some minor circumstances of static low level photography but they will never replace a crew and helicopter for most roles, such as pursuits and offender or misper searches, I could see limited use of Drones for police work.
I get the feeling that NPAS is in for a shake up I hope it is the management who have failed the service and public very badly rather than helicopters and their crews. I explained that regionalisation in small groups sharing resources ie using the Midlands as an example where four units worked together to share resources and tasking worked extremely well and that model would be a better alternative better adopted across the UK.
Yesterday wAs a chance to ask a PCC who is on the NPAS team what he knew about the Met, he told me they ARE NOT joining and NPAS is a bit of a mess, they are £1 million overspent and need sorting out..... Thats a shock
West Yorks are not giving up the host force job but it looks like that (as I was told) "flying to burn off hours" has to stop, in fact reining in hours is what I seemed to be getting from him. He also said he thought that NPAS / Police should use Drones for photographic work rather than helicopters....I pointed out that a Drone may well be useful in some minor circumstances of static low level photography but they will never replace a crew and helicopter for most roles, such as pursuits and offender or misper searches, I could see limited use of Drones for police work.
I get the feeling that NPAS is in for a shake up I hope it is the management who have failed the service and public very badly rather than helicopters and their crews. I explained that regionalisation in small groups sharing resources ie using the Midlands as an example where four units worked together to share resources and tasking worked extremely well and that model would be a better alternative better adopted across the UK.
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Thread Starter
.... it looks like that (as I was told) "flying to burn off hours" has to stop, in fact reining in hours is what I seemed to be getting from him.
Drones are all well and good, especially for those thermals, but as most of us know thermal jobs are done on the back of other jobs. However, when the thermals mount up and flights occur purely to reduce that list, many more jobs are attended .... in particular crime type jobs, the type drones would be no use whatsoever on. In addition, if drones are used for purely drone type jobs, results when the doors are knocked would dramatically fall.
It's not unheard of to launch for an hour on a few thermals and up with an unrelated 6 collars from crime on the wheel ... just like the good old days
Can someone please confirm the cost of a phone ping, I'd like to compare it to the proposed £1600/hr for a helicopter deployment.
It may be a rumour, but in a recent survey, 85% of NPAS employees came up with the same method of saving £1 million a year
Volrider, I didn't know that the SLA (NPAS) team had a PCC on it? So which PCC are you talking about as the only one who knows anything must be the PCC for W Yorkshire Police?
Be very careful what you talk about here - this information - if correct has a very negative influence on things.
[The results of the latest NPAS financial audit is and always has been available to the public and was even advertised on here several moons ago. It is common knowledge that they are in deficit. And by a lot more than £1m!].
Can you be more specific about who the PCC was please as I don't think they have a habit of spouting on about confidential stuff like this to any tom, dick or harry.
Be very careful what you talk about here - this information - if correct has a very negative influence on things.
[The results of the latest NPAS financial audit is and always has been available to the public and was even advertised on here several moons ago. It is common knowledge that they are in deficit. And by a lot more than £1m!].
Can you be more specific about who the PCC was please as I don't think they have a habit of spouting on about confidential stuff like this to any tom, dick or harry.
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 12th Jan 2015 at 08:41.
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Hi TC Tom Dick and Harry here (wow so many names can I claim pension benefits for all?)
"The NPAS Strategic Board shall comprise of a Local Police Body and
a Chief Police Officer (or their representatives) from each of the six
NPAS air support regions. These twelve individuals shall hold voting
rights on the Board. All other members of the Board, including the
Lead Local Policing Body and the Lead Local Chief Constable shall
attend in an ex-officio capacity;"
Not sure if he is on this bit or on some sort of committee, they are popular amongst those powerful people ....
The PCC I spoke to was knowledgeable about the subject and knows my history with Air Ops and my views.
Thank you for offering your advice on censorship, although as it is a public service the public should know what they are not getting for their money? As you have stated in your posy the figures are "out there" My guess was when he said £1 million that with politicians the figure has been downsized considerably
"The NPAS Strategic Board shall comprise of a Local Police Body and
a Chief Police Officer (or their representatives) from each of the six
NPAS air support regions. These twelve individuals shall hold voting
rights on the Board. All other members of the Board, including the
Lead Local Policing Body and the Lead Local Chief Constable shall
attend in an ex-officio capacity;"
Not sure if he is on this bit or on some sort of committee, they are popular amongst those powerful people ....
The PCC I spoke to was knowledgeable about the subject and knows my history with Air Ops and my views.
Thank you for offering your advice on censorship, although as it is a public service the public should know what they are not getting for their money? As you have stated in your posy the figures are "out there" My guess was when he said £1 million that with politicians the figure has been downsized considerably
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Just to clarify, Volrider, were you speaking to a PCC (an elected, political, Police & Crime Commissioner) or an appointed, non-political, Chief Constable? There's quite a big difference, I'd suggest.
Don't forget that PCCs have effectively done away with "Local Police Bodies", the old Police Authorities which were mostly made up of elected members of other bodies, before the PCCs called on a miniscule number of the electorate.
TC has some valid points re confidentiality. Inappropriate disclosure shines bad light on this forum, however public-spirited it may appear.
Don't forget that PCCs have effectively done away with "Local Police Bodies", the old Police Authorities which were mostly made up of elected members of other bodies, before the PCCs called on a miniscule number of the electorate.
TC has some valid points re confidentiality. Inappropriate disclosure shines bad light on this forum, however public-spirited it may appear.
Last edited by Filtre de fadaises; 12th Jan 2015 at 10:17. Reason: add support to TCs comments
That's right Filter, Your average PCC doesn't go around making statements or off the cuff comments to people he doesn't know very well indeed for fear of them going public as Volrider has done on this forum.
Sorry Vol - but I suspect you talked to the wrong man or he/she told you a little porky. They simply don't divulge information like this, in this manner.
However - for your information - all the PCC's of each force who have a stake in NPAS, form a separate committee which inputs to the SLA.
Sorry Vol - but I suspect you talked to the wrong man or he/she told you a little porky. They simply don't divulge information like this, in this manner.
However - for your information - all the PCC's of each force who have a stake in NPAS, form a separate committee which inputs to the SLA.
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Well I know
A it was a PCC
B He is on some sort of committee over seeing/ monitoring NPAS
I do not see why you have such concerns when this place thrives on rumour with the odd fact, I produce the fact and you start running around shooting the messenger, FFS wake up smell the coffee or sit behind your comfort zone and watch it fall about you, either way I give not a sh1t, I am out of it dealing with other battles that leaves me little time to offer further information to you that dont want or need it...
Have fun..
A it was a PCC
B He is on some sort of committee over seeing/ monitoring NPAS
I do not see why you have such concerns when this place thrives on rumour with the odd fact, I produce the fact and you start running around shooting the messenger, FFS wake up smell the coffee or sit behind your comfort zone and watch it fall about you, either way I give not a sh1t, I am out of it dealing with other battles that leaves me little time to offer further information to you that dont want or need it...
Have fun..
Calm down....calm down, Captain Mainwaring! The BIG difference between other rumour mongers on here and your post is that you were directly quoting a senior insider - now that adds significant credence to what you say, I think you'll agree. This then lends itself to supporting the argument wholeheartedly.
I'm not saying the rumour is accurate or otherwise but surely you have been around long enough to realise that a PCC is NOT going to speak out of turn about something as politically charged as this unless it was uttered in confidence to you and you felt there was a public need to spill the beans - thereafter?
Why didn't you just say: I've heard rumours that.....................and not mention the PCC bit.
Relax - breathe slowly....................................................:o k:
I'm not saying the rumour is accurate or otherwise but surely you have been around long enough to realise that a PCC is NOT going to speak out of turn about something as politically charged as this unless it was uttered in confidence to you and you felt there was a public need to spill the beans - thereafter?
Why didn't you just say: I've heard rumours that.....................and not mention the PCC bit.
Relax - breathe slowly....................................................:o k: