Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 17th Mar 2015, 21:48
  #1721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,704
I can understand that; similar to long-lining.
Fareastdriver is online now  
Old 17th Mar 2015, 22:43
  #1722 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
Bristow Inverness Launch Event, 2015-03-17

This afternoon, an army of journos, a few mountain rescuers and a Coastguard flash mob gathered at the new Bristow hangar at Dalcross (INV) for the Bristow Inverness launch event.

http://hmcoastguard.********.co.uk/2...elicopter.html [LINK FAILS!! PPRuNe filters out the word b10gsp0t, so add it in manually with o instead of 0!]

STV news item
(Glenelg and Kintail MRTs working hard in the background to spoil some of the shots. Sorry Sam )

I spent three hours there. For some of those present, it may have been a case of 'ooh look at the new toy'. However, like other NW MR folks, I think I may have seen an Sikorsky S-92 somewhere before, so I attended to other matters.

I spent most of that time talking to Inverness SAR pilots and pilots who form part of the management team at Bristow SAR. My main concern was the regulatory framework. In 2012, my conversations with the CAA led me to believe that there was commitment within government and CAA to delivering a regulatory framework for life-saving flight that was workable for UK SAR in a service equivalent to previous providers. Today, I wanted to know whether the CAA has delivered the goods on those SAR flying rules. After conversations with several highly experienced flyers, I believe that the answer is that they have delivered.

I also spoke to people about previous civilian SAR contracts, about NVG, and about the AW189, incuding AFCS SAR modes, icing protection systems and NVG.

36 pilots and 42 rear crew are moving to Bristow on Managed Transition. (So statistical estimate of 70 to 80 spot on.)

Bristow Inverness will operate with a really impressive proportion of former RAF Lossiemouth SAR aircrew both through Managed Transition and other routes. These guys know about mountains. Same faces, same service? Not quite. Several of them seem to be smiling a lot more now that they have seen the kit they will be working with. Less abandoning broken helicopters on mountains , less fire-fighting , less online gaming (due to aircraft offline!). So same faces, smiling more, four or five thousand shaft horsepower and the lots of super 21st century role equipment. Unlike a Sea King SAR hangar, the most sophisticated piece of equipment in the Bristow SAR hangar is NOT the entertainment system in the crew room.


The DfT and MCA are already thinking about how they will run the competition to replace this contract is 2023/26. Joined-up thinking and long-term planning in British public procurement: today's scoop! Remember where you heard it first folks.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2015, 23:11
  #1723 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 331
So Jim,

are you saying that actually this could work out to be a good service? Surely not.
jeepys is online now  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 07:33
  #1724 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
It remains the case that I believe that this contract has a competent specification and has been won by a competent contractor.

It also remains the case that like William Thomson, I believe that when you can measure something and speak about it in numbers then you know something about it. Therefore most commentators in the public domain know nothing about this subject.

It also remains the case that I believe it is right to get stuck in and ask searching questions to establish the facts rather than believe the spin.

********************************


Sometimes the facts get overshadowed in a good way. Yesterday, as one pilot spoke of the recent developments in the regulatory framework, the glint in his eye was one such event.


'Per Ardua Ad Astra'
jimf671 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 08:49
  #1725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: devon
Age: 80
Posts: 366
Strebgth of winch cables.

When Bristow held the SAR contract the Air Equipement hoist in the S61N had a cable with a 600 lb max working load, but the breaking load was 3000 lbs, I guess that the more modern hoists have similar cables. Having said that, the cables were susceptible to snatch loads, they couldn't be used to tow a car for instance if it was lashed up to do so.

Last edited by Oldlae; 18th Mar 2015 at 08:55. Reason: Extra info.
Oldlae is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 08:57
  #1726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the northern riviera
Age: 53
Posts: 75
JimF671 - I think the personnel from the Coastguard Rescue Service may object to being labelled a "flash mob". It is my understanding that those personnel present where from coastal areas right across what will be the AOR for the Inverness Cabs. Maybe you didn't notice, but there was also representatives from the RNLI at the event also. Its not just MR who will work with these new machines!!
edwardspannerhands is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 09:02
  #1727 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 193
Cornflakes spat across the breakfast table

Everyone enjoys a bit of irony first thing in the morning. I've got to hand it to you Jim, this one's priceless.

I spent most of that time talking to Inverness SAR pilots and pilots who form part of the management team at Bristow SAR............I believe that the answer is that they have delivered.

I also spoke to people about previous civilian SAR contracts, about NVG, and about the AW189, incuding AFCS SAR modes, icing protection systems and NVG.
And then this.

rather than believe the spin
Surely you must see, that's exactly what you're doing, believing the spin and then re-broadcasting it here.

From the above quote it looks like you asked about NVG twice. By all accounts, that's twice more than they've flown with them! But I'm sure it'll all be ok because, "Inverness SAR pilots and pilots who form part of the management team at Bristow SAR" say it will be.
satsuma is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 09:10
  #1728 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
...as one pilot spoke of the recent developments in the regulatory framework
No doubt assisted by the fact that the Bristow SAR Director is the ex-CAA SAR 'gatekeeper'.
212man is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 10:19
  #1729 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 41
It is interesting to note the favourable comments and attitude to the new aircraft, coming from the MR community. The lads and lasses who will operate the equipment will deliver a first rate service, that is in no doubt. However the presence of the 92 is slightly misleading, as it will be replaced with a much smaller 189 in due course. This will cause MR personnel some problems, having to shuffle around on their backsides, unable to stand, smaller teams etc etc. Two of the UK's three main 'mountain job' bases equipped with 189's. Interesting.
I expect Stornoway to be heading SE a lot more, particularly when the W/V is up a bit.
Norfolk Inchance is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 11:22
  #1730 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 193
The lads and lasses who will operate the equipment will deliver a first rate service, that is in no doubt.
Why is this in no doubt? Some of the entry requirements (in terms of SAR experience) were really quite paltry.

People really need to stop making sweeping statements that are impossible to substantiate.
satsuma is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 12:32
  #1731 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Uk
Posts: 56
What were the mil SAR requirements for aircrew just out of interest?
dingo9 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 12:44
  #1732 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 193
A multi-stage selection and intensive training process that takes place over a number of years.
satsuma is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 12:49
  #1733 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Uk
Posts: 56
So ab-initio pilots with les than 200 hrs TT would never get sent SAR then.
dingo9 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 13:00
  #1734 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 193
There are hours, then there are quality hours. In the military when sorties are failed the student doesn't have the ability to throw money at the problem until it goes away. I can't speak for every pilot that has gone through the military training system but in general, no. Do remember, there's a four man crew on SAR and the experience (or lack of experience) of the rearcrew is equally vital.
satsuma is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 13:32
  #1735 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
Ed, the flash mob comment indicates a good turnout from the Coastguard and is more of a dig at MR colleagues whose turnout, apart from Glenelg, was not very impressive.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 13:51
  #1736 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Europe
Age: 9
Posts: 42
Devil

Was the Chief Pilot position filled by proper procedure of fair competition using SVN?
Sumpor Stylee is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 14:06
  #1737 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
Satsuma, inadequate previous civSAR contracts have resulted in years of guarded answers from contractor personnel that in turn have taken their toll on relations between some MR and civSAR. We are moving into a new era with a proper tech spec and reformed regulatory framework. There is also more clarity about where GAP SAR North stands during the next two years while still under the old regime.



With you on the rear crew. Yesterday I spoke up for rear crew status and will follow that up. Bristow have some influence there but really the DfT and the CAA need to get in there and specify and regulate this area in a more intelligent way.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 16:27
  #1738 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
No doubt assisted by the fact that the Bristow SAR Director is the ex-CAA SAR 'gatekeeper'.
And I had a chat with that chap as well about how easily the gate will swing open if the correct evidenced forces are applied.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 16:43
  #1739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,215
UKC Photos - Bristow personnel. Bristow SAR Inverness.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2015, 17:28
  #1740 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 81
Sumpor,

Was the Chief Pilot position filled by proper procedure of fair competition using SVN?
That is an odd question to ask in here but entirely appropriate for someone of your age. Mental is it?

P3
P3 Bellows is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.