UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread
What needs to be done for SAR cabs particularly, is for the CAA to authorise the comprehensive use of GPS let downs under CAP999 (when it comes).
Al-Bert.....that odd black thing protruding from the nose of the 92.....oddly enough is a Radar. Don't think for a moment it has not been used to do exactly the kind of let down you mention.
Why is GPS paired with Radar....not approved for Let Downs over the Sea now?
Is it the fact GPS is a Yank DOD thing that is the hindrance?
We ain't talking about a Precision iLS replacement here folks....just a let down to Visual with the Oggiin are we not?
Why is GPS paired with Radar....not approved for Let Downs over the Sea now?
Is it the fact GPS is a Yank DOD thing that is the hindrance?
We ain't talking about a Precision iLS replacement here folks....just a let down to Visual with the Oggiin are we not?
Al-bert
I think it is more to do with the rules that civilians have to fly under - once the SAROP is complete and you are just RTU then all the usual IFR/VFR rules apply so no hover taxing up the beach in fog!!
AH - the joys of the Lossiemouth foggy RTU - Radar letdown into the bay - line up with the ILS at 50ft, with RADOP backup, then hovertaxy up the beach find the runway lights and follow them to the turnoff for the flight dispersal. Only hazards were the mad golfers on the course through which the lead in lights were sighted - not sure what the penalty was for hitting a yellow Seaking - lose 1 stroke I suppose
HF
TC - what's wrong with a radar letdown to 50ft over the sea and hop over the dunes as we always..............oh dear, no RADOP?
AH - the joys of the Lossiemouth foggy RTU - Radar letdown into the bay - line up with the ILS at 50ft, with RADOP backup, then hovertaxy up the beach find the runway lights and follow them to the turnoff for the flight dispersal. Only hazards were the mad golfers on the course through which the lead in lights were sighted - not sure what the penalty was for hitting a yellow Seaking - lose 1 stroke I suppose
HF
There was certainly a Hunter that discovered the penalty! Martin Baker letdown and ac on the 12th fairway after golf ball went through engine on finals.
Al-bert,
I'm not sure that the SK OCU became so lengthy due to crews becoming procedularly rated. This was and still is a relatively short phase (mainly sim-based), any SH cross-overs will already have done plenty and the ab-initios do a stack on the Griffin at. Shawbury these days. The OCU became painfully long due to being co-located with C Flight (guess who gets priority?), poor serviceability, and a dogged reluctance to entertain the thought of fast-tracking experienced guys through.
I'm not sure that the SK OCU became so lengthy due to crews becoming procedularly rated. This was and still is a relatively short phase (mainly sim-based), any SH cross-overs will already have done plenty and the ab-initios do a stack on the Griffin at. Shawbury these days. The OCU became painfully long due to being co-located with C Flight (guess who gets priority?), poor serviceability, and a dogged reluctance to entertain the thought of fast-tracking experienced guys through.
Last edited by llamaman; 5th Apr 2013 at 20:51.
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Wow Crab
I must have imagined all the times we took casualties to Plymouth in IMC
Can't imagine how we did it without the wonders of a procedural IR.
Oh, and you should be careful using words like "unprofessional" when you seem to believe that you should be TUPE'd because the job is the same.
YOUR JOB IS TO BE AN AIR FORCE OFFICER.
DURING THAT JOB YOU MAY BE ASKED TO FLY.
To suggest that your job is pilot/SAR just shows the lack of professionalism of RAF SAR primadonnas. As does the fact that you are leaving just because your happy little easy SAR life is over. Go and do some real work with the SH boys.
I must have imagined all the times we took casualties to Plymouth in IMC
Can't imagine how we did it without the wonders of a procedural IR.
Oh, and you should be careful using words like "unprofessional" when you seem to believe that you should be TUPE'd because the job is the same.
YOUR JOB IS TO BE AN AIR FORCE OFFICER.
DURING THAT JOB YOU MAY BE ASKED TO FLY.
To suggest that your job is pilot/SAR just shows the lack of professionalism of RAF SAR primadonnas. As does the fact that you are leaving just because your happy little easy SAR life is over. Go and do some real work with the SH boys.
YOUR JOB IS TO BE AN AIR FORCE OFFICER.
DURING THAT JOB YOU MAY BE ASKED TO FLY.
DURING THAT JOB YOU MAY BE ASKED TO FLY.
On the subject of getting a job in civvy sar and procedural instrument flight, some on here need to bear in mind that to do that you need to be a pilot. To be a pilot you need a licence, and that includes an instrument rating, and that includes the need to be able to fly a competent procedural IF approach. SAR competence is a bit of icing on that cake, not the be all and end all, and no use without the licence and IR. So if you want to be a civvy pilot, best to remember that there is more to it than dangling someone from a piece of string. But I will grant you that it is not just mil SAR guys that have to be reminded of that!
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There.....you've all been told!! Suppose that includes me to 
Don't think you can fly an IMC ILS to a closed airfield for the purpose of cloud break or recovery, as the system is unmonitored for signal errors. Could be wrong and I'm sure someone will keep me right!
Pig
Don't think you can fly an IMC ILS to a closed airfield for the purpose of cloud break or recovery, as the system is unmonitored for signal errors. Could be wrong and I'm sure someone will keep me right!
Pig
IFR Piglet - modern ILS are self monitoring and they switch themselves off if there is any degradation of the signal. There will be a panel of lights in ATC that highlights if any of the elements are misbehaving but the old adage of 'if it doesn't code, don't use it' applies.
Moderator - I won't respond to Tourist's post despite its tone in an effort to avoid being yellow carded
However, I seem to have been flying where and when I was told for the last 31 years, so I think my taking of the Queen's shilling has been vindicated
TC - the funny thing about using the ILS was doing it VFR - why? And if you are doing it single pilot, who is doing the lookout???
Moderator - I won't respond to Tourist's post despite its tone in an effort to avoid being yellow carded
However, I seem to have been flying where and when I was told for the last 31 years, so I think my taking of the Queen's shilling has been vindicated
TC - the funny thing about using the ILS was doing it VFR - why? And if you are doing it single pilot, who is doing the lookout???
Crab: Because if you take off in marginal (VFR) weather and either try to get back in an hour later after the weather has worsened at base, OR..heaven forbid, you go IIMC, the CAA require police pilots who aren't IR, to make use of every safe opportunity to recover to a dedicated landing site like an airfield and if that airfield is marginal VMC, then you have to use the ILS. Can't stay above the clouds all day long can you? I had to mention the SVFR/VFR bit because legally police pilots who aren't IR'd cannot fly IMC intentionally.
I could elaborate, but the bottom line is that Non IR police pilots must in their OPC/LPC, demonstrate an ILS approach.
What's this business about lookout SPIFR??? Where did that come from?
How do all SPIFR pilots do ILS approaches regarding lookout? They are on their own???? They couple the cab and monitor the approach. If "lookout" is what they want to do, then so be it....Don't understand your comment?
To everyone else: sorry to digress from the thread. Crab perhaps we can discuss over a coffee next week.......
I could elaborate, but the bottom line is that Non IR police pilots must in their OPC/LPC, demonstrate an ILS approach.
What's this business about lookout SPIFR??? Where did that come from?
How do all SPIFR pilots do ILS approaches regarding lookout? They are on their own???? They couple the cab and monitor the approach. If "lookout" is what they want to do, then so be it....Don't understand your comment?
To everyone else: sorry to digress from the thread. Crab perhaps we can discuss over a coffee next week.......
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 6th Apr 2013 at 19:17.
I was going to post a reply based on thirty five years of experience worldwide and including a massive amount of SAR and offshore flying but I have given up trying.
Keep up the bull****!
Keep up the bull****!
FED - I concurr! Nuff said. Apart from Jesus wept!
Back to the question!!!
FED,
It would seem that you and I might be 2 of the few grown ups on here, if you can be bothered I would appreciate your thoughts. Who knows, we might even get the thread back on track but I won't hold my breath.
Merlin driver- many thanks for your views.
It would seem that you and I might be 2 of the few grown ups on here, if you can be bothered I would appreciate your thoughts. Who knows, we might even get the thread back on track but I won't hold my breath.
Merlin driver- many thanks for your views.
Myra - please feel free to get the thread back on track but I suspect that until Bristow have an accurate idea of where their crews are coming from, there will be little real information available - save for the usual scuttlebutt and rumour
Just waiting now for a pedant to point out it should be 'Bristow has an accurate idea of where its crews' etc
Just waiting now for a pedant to point out it should be 'Bristow has an accurate idea of where its crews' etc
I hope Bristow factor in the 10 pilots and 10 rear crew that are coming our way next year.....
That's interesting - does that mean you are going to have "proper SAR" in Brunei, and does that mean as a consequence you are going to do crew change flights at night?
Yes, 'proper SAR' - dedicated primary SAR machine with 24 hour cover. Not sure about night ops yet. Lots of new 'Linkedin friends'.......