COP hours
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COP hours
Dear guys,
I'm helicopter pilot in the german army and I've got a valid CPL (H)-IR but no ATPL Theory and no MCC.
I've been trying to find out how it is possible that some companies offer jobs where I don't need the ATPL Theory and no MCC and especially how the COP hours will be logged then. Or will it be logged at all as COP hours?
One question in airlaw says:
The holder of a pilot license, when acting as co-pilot of an aircraft required to be operated with a co-pilot, shall be entitled to be credited with not more than 50% of the co-pilot flight time towards the total flight time required for a higher grade of pilot license.
on the other hand the federal office of civil Aeronautics says that you need MCC and the ATPL Theory for operating on a MPH with two pilots.
A little bit confusing and I hope you can help me!
Please be so kind and forgive in case of having posted a studpid question
Torque135
I'm helicopter pilot in the german army and I've got a valid CPL (H)-IR but no ATPL Theory and no MCC.
I've been trying to find out how it is possible that some companies offer jobs where I don't need the ATPL Theory and no MCC and especially how the COP hours will be logged then. Or will it be logged at all as COP hours?
One question in airlaw says:
The holder of a pilot license, when acting as co-pilot of an aircraft required to be operated with a co-pilot, shall be entitled to be credited with not more than 50% of the co-pilot flight time towards the total flight time required for a higher grade of pilot license.
on the other hand the federal office of civil Aeronautics says that you need MCC and the ATPL Theory for operating on a MPH with two pilots.
A little bit confusing and I hope you can help me!
Please be so kind and forgive in case of having posted a studpid question
Torque135
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I should add that you receive 100% of flight time for a higher grade of license when having the credit for MPA.
Does that mean I receive 50% with no ATPL Theory and with it I would receive 100% of COP?
Does that mean I receive 50% with no ATPL Theory and with it I would receive 100% of COP?
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As youīre German Military, the requirements for getting a civil license are written down in BesAnLwA-AbtFlBtrb 505/5101 (afair).
Only hours on CH53 and EC135 are recognized as MPH-hours.
The rest of your flight time (no matter what your military FOM say) is SINGLE Pilot ONLY.....
Thatīs the rule at the moment...
Btw:
You have a civil license-but no type rating on it (i guess...)...
It will be "restricted privileges", so you canīt log any of these hours......(not towards an ATPL, though)
Only hours on CH53 and EC135 are recognized as MPH-hours.
The rest of your flight time (no matter what your military FOM say) is SINGLE Pilot ONLY.....
Thatīs the rule at the moment...
Btw:
You have a civil license-but no type rating on it (i guess...)...
It will be "restricted privileges", so you canīt log any of these hours......(not towards an ATPL, though)
Last edited by hueyracer; 22nd Jan 2013 at 17:24.
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@hueyracer,
Thank you for answering!
at this time I've got a valid EC 135 and Bo 105 rating + IR.
in case of receiving another typerating e.g. EC 155 how will I be allowed to log
these hours without ATPL Theory. MPH will may be inserted by the LBA on request due to the EC 135 rating.
best regard
Thank you for answering!
at this time I've got a valid EC 135 and Bo 105 rating + IR.
in case of receiving another typerating e.g. EC 155 how will I be allowed to log
these hours without ATPL Theory. MPH will may be inserted by the LBA on request due to the EC 135 rating.
best regard
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MPH will may be inserted by the LBA on request due to the EC 135 rating
MPH hours requires a MPH-Type rating.
As you are holding a license with r.p. ratings, you do not "have" valid ratings until you pass a (civil) checkride on a civil helicopter.
For getting a MPH rating onto your license, you will have to pass a MPH-type rating course, which (afair) consists out of 5 or 10 hours in the aircraft (as this will be your FIRST MPH rating on your license).
In BesAnLwA-AbtFlBtrb 505/5101 you can see that-even if the EC135 hours are considered as "MPH" in regards to your license conversion (military to civil), it will only be transfered into your civil license as SPH.
(Chapter 7, Appendix 3).
BO105 and EC135 can only be transfered onto a civil license as SPH.
Regarding your EC155 rating:
Go and talk to a TRTO.
You will have to do a MEH to MEH conversion (4 hours).
Probably going to cost you about 15.000-20.000 Euro.
Last edited by hueyracer; 22nd Jan 2013 at 18:31.
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Thank you huey racer!
What would you recommend to do in order to receive the MPH credit?
Paying 10000 for MPH or is there another possibility?
it would be nice if you would answer via pm and if you want in german
What would you recommend to do in order to receive the MPH credit?
Paying 10000 for MPH or is there another possibility?
it would be nice if you would answer via pm and if you want in german
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Luftfahrt Bundesamt - Homepage - Hubschrauber mit zwei Piloten MP(H)
That's the official point of view regarding SPH / MPH. Of course you can do MPH checkflights on Bo105 or EC135. But since they are not MPH by certification, you will only be able to fly and log Co times on these if the operators manual specifies MPH operations. Usually for IFR / VFR Night.
If the ops manual specifies certain ops as MPH, the PIC needs an ATPL(H) and the Co CPL(H) + ATPL(H) theory + MCC. (That's according to the LBA. I can't find where it says ATPL theory in the regs. - CPL(H) + MCC should do.)
Holm- und Rippenbruch!
Rotatohead
That's the official point of view regarding SPH / MPH. Of course you can do MPH checkflights on Bo105 or EC135. But since they are not MPH by certification, you will only be able to fly and log Co times on these if the operators manual specifies MPH operations. Usually for IFR / VFR Night.
If the ops manual specifies certain ops as MPH, the PIC needs an ATPL(H) and the Co CPL(H) + ATPL(H) theory + MCC. (That's according to the LBA. I can't find where it says ATPL theory in the regs. - CPL(H) + MCC should do.)
Holm- und Rippenbruch!
Rotatohead
Last edited by Rotatohead; 22nd Jan 2013 at 19:54.
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Of course you can do MPH checkflights on Bo105 or EC135
Discusses this issue with the LBA before (on several occasions).
You can NOT get a MPH-type rating without attending in a MPH-type rating course as this is going to be his FIRST MPH rating on his license (because BO105 and EC135 are only considered SPH according to the agreement).
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First of all, thank you guys!
Concluding the situation. I've to attend a civil MCC course and an ATPL correspondence course for being interesting for the civil market. Is that right?
Then one final question:
I couldn't find any information about how much I'll have to pay for an MCC, only that all the hours can be flown in a FNPT which will lower the costs, I guess.
Maybe you know.
Greetings from the officer candidate school in DD! I think you've also been there
I only can see tanks in defence
Concluding the situation. I've to attend a civil MCC course and an ATPL correspondence course for being interesting for the civil market. Is that right?
Then one final question:
I couldn't find any information about how much I'll have to pay for an MCC, only that all the hours can be flown in a FNPT which will lower the costs, I guess.
Maybe you know.
Greetings from the officer candidate school in DD! I think you've also been there
I only can see tanks in defence
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With your military IR (and the minimum 500 military hours you should have-otherwise you are not able to convert your military into a civil license) you should have been granted "MCC credit" by the LBA.
The MCC course is a REQUIREMENT for MPH-ratings or an ATPL(H).
To be qualifying for the market you will need:
-CPL(H)
-Instrument rating
-MCC
-ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge (passed all written ATPL exams
These are the requirements for starting a career with one of the big Offshore operators as a Copilot.
Btw:
1 hour in a simulator (for example the ADAC EC135 or EC145 simulator) will sum up to 1500 Euro plus VAT....
The MCC course is a REQUIREMENT for MPH-ratings or an ATPL(H).
To be qualifying for the market you will need:
-CPL(H)
-Instrument rating
-MCC
-ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge (passed all written ATPL exams
These are the requirements for starting a career with one of the big Offshore operators as a Copilot.
Btw:
1 hour in a simulator (for example the ADAC EC135 or EC145 simulator) will sum up to 1500 Euro plus VAT....
Last edited by hueyracer; 23rd Jan 2013 at 07:57.
