Fatal reported Central Otago, NZ

[Te_Kahu]

One person is believed to have died in a helicopter crash near Wanaka this evening.

An owner of the farm where the helicopter crashed said one person had been found dead at the scene.

It was not known if any one else was on board.

Inspector Alan Weston of police southern communications said they received a report of a crash at 8.30pm and sent emergency services to the area to search for the aircraft.

Police near the scene of the crash said there was at least one person on board at the time of the crash.

Two helicopters with flashlights circled the crash site on the Pisa Range, near Wanaka, this evening.

A medic, and fire officer and two or three land search and rescue staff were on board those helicopters.

Police said a witness had seen the helicopter drop out of the sky after its rotor stopped.

A spokeswoman for Wanaka-based Aspiring Helicopters Alex Ford said the company had sent a helicopter to the scene after a request from police.

Police asked the company to "go in a hurry'' because it was getting dark.

[Te_Kahu]

Update

A female pilot has been killed in a helicopter crash near Wanaka this evening.

The Civil Aviation Authority confirmed the female pilot, the sole occupant and the partner of the operator of the aircraft, died in the crash.

The helicopter was a Robinson R22.

Inspector Alan Weston of police southern communications said they received a report of a crash at 8.30pm and sent emergency services to the area to search for the aircraft.

Two helicopters with flashlights circled the crash site on the Pisa Range, near Wanaka, this evening.

Police said a witness had seen the helicopter drop out of the sky after its rotor stopped.

A spokeswoman for Wanaka-based Aspiring Helicopters Alex Ford said the company had sent a helicopter to the scene after a request from police.

Police asked the company to "go in a hurry'' because it was getting dark.

- Otago Daily Times

[helops]

...another R22...Very sad

[Hedge36]

Another pilot, dolt.

[Te_Kahu]

RIP

A 52-year-old Queenstown woman killed in a helicopter crash on the Pisa Range last night was returning home after dropping off a fellow pilot at Wanaka Airport.

The woman was the only person on board the helicopter when it "just dropped out of the sky" about 8.30pm, Civil Aviation Authority corporate communications manager Mike Richards said.

She was flying a Robinson R22 helicopter, which belonged to a local helicopter company, Mr Richards said.

The woman was believed to be the partner of the company operator.

Police said she and a friend had earlier flown from Queenstown to Wanaka Airport to pick up another light aircraft and then both returned to Queenstown via the Cardrona Valley, one flying the aircraft the other flying the R22 Helicopter.

The friend arrived in Queenstown unaware of any incident involving the R22 Helicopter.

Several witnesses to the crash alerted emergency services. Ambulance, police and fire personnel, along with Land Search and Rescue (LandSAR) volunteers rushed to the scene and established a base in a paddock at Spotburn Station in Cardrona Valley Rd, near the crash site.

The owner of the farm where the helicopter crashed, Ben Gordon, who took emergency services to the scene, said the helicopter crashed about 600m up the Pisa Range as it was heading back to Queenstown from Wanaka along the Pisa Range.

He learned of the accident after Hamish Mackay, who farms on a neighbouring property, saw the crash while he was out on his lawn.

"Apparently, it was flying along the Pisa Range when it just dropped out of the sky," Mr Gordon said.

Conditions were "perfect".

"For some reason, the rotors have stopped and it has just fallen out of the sky, basically. It has hit the ground really hard and left quite an impact ..."

The helicopter was "in bits" and almost unrecognisable.

Senior Constable Nigel Buckingham, of Wanaka, said one witness reported seeing the rotor stop, before the machine "dropped out of the sky" and made a "very hard landing" on the side of the hill.

Two helicopters - one from Wanaka's Aspiring Helicopters and the Otago Regional Rescue Helicopter from Dunedin - with a medic, fire officers and LandSAR volunteers on board, hovered over the crash site for about an hour, using spotlights to search the area, Mr Richards said.

CAA will begin an on-site investigation this morning.

[Motion Lotion]

Very sad. My thoughts go out to family and friends

Cardrona Valley Helicopter Crash: Pilot Killed | Stuff.co.nz



Friends and colleagues of Julian Kramer, known as Julianne, were shocked and saddened to learn the experienced pilot had been killed in a helicopter crash between Wanaka and Queenstown last night.

Wakatipu Aero Club president Adrian Snow said the loss of Kramer would leave a big gap in the club as well as the industry nationwide.

''It's very sad. It's a big loss for the club ... our biggest sympathies obviously go out to the family.''

Kramer preferred to live as a woman by the name of Julianne and was widely known as such.

Kramer ran Air Wakatipu, the commercial division of the Wakatipu Aero Club, and was also chief pilot and instructor.

''He was a very well respected pilot and a very well respected instructor ... Often very good pilots don't make good instructors but he did.''

Pilots came from all over New Zealand and the world to fly in the mountains with Kramer who had developed very good mountain flying and flight training skills, Snow said.

''That is a big experience gap that will be missed by the club and its members and arguably the rest of New Zealand.''

With almost 9000 hours clocked up flying light aircraft, Kramer was an experienced pilot and his death has shocked friends and colleagues, he said.

''Flying was his complete passion. There was nothing else in life for Julian except for aviation. The club is shocked and deeply saddened.''

Born and raised in Queenstown, Kramer was introduced to flying as a youngster and clocked up more than 30 years' flying experience.

''His father Henry was a founding member and is a past president of the Wakatipu Aero Club ... he learnt to fly in a home built aircraft and went on to fly hang-gliders, light aircraft, helicopters and gliders,'' Snow said.

[krypton_john]

High time fixed wing instructor low time rotary wing - can be a dangerous combination especially in a low inertia rotor machine?

[outofwhack]

KryptonJohn: High time fixed wing instructor low time rotary wing - can be a dangerous combination especially in a low inertia rotor machine?

Krypton John,

I find it a little offensive when someone denigrates another persons skills because they have considerable additional skills in another related area.

I suggest a high time fixed wing power pilot, glider pilot, tail-wheel pilot and instructor is much more capable of understanding and adapting to the difference between flying helicopters and fixed wings than someone with no previous flying experience.

I noticed a certain attitude in the industry when I was choosing a helicopter flying school [as an experienced fixed wing pilot]. Just about every school I went to had the opinion that fixed wing time was worthless or worse. I never understood it and I think it totally wrong. Its just another flying machine and you can gather valuable flying experience in any type of aircraft and specially in those that dont rely on an engine and rely on the pilot understanding the air to stay airborne (anyone can drive a motorboat but it takes an extra set of skills to drive a yacht).

As an experienced fixed wing pilot and 600hr rotary I can tell you it is very easy to resist the temptation to fully hold off on landing and maintain skids level.
Only very fresh poorly trained fixed wing pilots might think the proper reaction to a stall is full forward stick. An experienced fixed wing pilot knows that this kind of over-control can result in further stalling but at negative angles of attack and at any airspeed. I can demonstrate a stall in a fixed wing at any speed from zero knots up to Vne.

So, given the experience level of the victim lets not put it down to fixed wing pilots being dangerous in helicopters.

OOW

[Gemini Twin]

I sometimes think anything and a Robbie are a dangerous combination.

[Not Nightowl]

You hit the nail on the head Gemini Twin, R22s are prolific 'cos they're cheap compared to other brands but they're not very forgiving, especially for inexperienced pilots.
In this case however, (according to witnesses, "heard a bang then it crashed", "the rotors stopped") it doesn't seem like how good you are it wasn't a recoverable situation.
When the deer recovery business slowed down in the '80s and it was no longer profitable to run Hughes 500s or even 300s die hard deer chasing pilots switched to R22s as a cheap alternative.
So many accidents followed this transition that Mr. Robinson in California threatened to stop the export of R22s to NZ 'cos his product was getting a bad name.

[krypton_john]

Outofwhack - no denigration intended - where did you read that in my post?

The pilot is a recent PPL(H). My point is that there are engine out reactions for a fixed wing that are the opposite of rotary wing. I believe that this has been a cause of accidents in the past.

Sorry if you find that offensive but my post is simply to remind folks of a safety risk.

[Brian Abraham]

An experienced fixed wing pilot knows that this kind of over-control can result in further stalling but at negative angles of attack and at any airspeed. I can demonstrate a stall in a fixed wing at any speed from zero knots up to Vne.

Not a lot of experience being expressed there.

[alouette]

Highly experienced or having less experience...a grave mistake will cost you.

[Scissorlink]

Everyone who thinks R22's are awesome should do the following,

Get up in the cruise pulling around 20-21inches, now snap the throttle closed to simulate an engine failure, DON'T start lowering the collective UNTIL throttle is completely closed. Now as you lower the collective and the RRpm disappears into the sunset (hopefully you'll get in back) think to yourself...should a helicopter with a rotor system with inertia as low as this, even have been certified in the first place ?

[Not Nightowl]

Excellent post Scissorlink, say no more.

[CYHeli]

Scissor link, In Shawn Coyle's latest book he describes doing exactly that, but on the ground! With the collective raised to where you are just light on the skids. Snap the throttle closed and lower the collective and count until the RRPM gets to 90%. Now repeat but snap and lower SLOWLY, again counting the difference
Much safer way of doing it than in the air.

[alouette]

Quite alarming!!!

[outofwhack]

Quote:
An experienced fixed wing pilot knows that this kind of over-control can result in further stalling but at negative angles of attack and at any airspeed. I can demonstrate a stall in a fixed wing at any speed from zero knots up to Vne.

Brian Abraham: Not a lot of experience being expressed there.

Brian, do you think there is something wrong with my statement? What?

[Brian Abraham]

outofwhack, your statement

Only very fresh poorly trained fixed wing pilots might think the proper reaction to a stall is full forward stick. An experienced fixed wing pilot knows that this kind of over-control can result in further stalling but at negative angles of attack

is so ridiculous as to not be worth commenting on.

I can demonstrate a stall in a fixed wing at any speed from zero knots up to Vne

This statement demonstrates you have absolutely no understanding of fix wing aviation, and you are certainly not an individual who has any practical aviation experience.

This is what happens when you attempt a stall at a speed near Vne.

Plane loses its wings at airshow - YouTube

For information, the Va of a Pitts is 134 knots and Vne 176 knots
Like wise, for the Extra 300 Va 140, Vne 220

So please tell us how you are able to stall either of those aircraft at Vne.

[outofwhack]

Brian,

Your responses indicate to me you might not have fully grasped aerodynamics.

I was pointing out that experienced fixed wing pilots, like the accident pilot, know not to use large control inputs when recovering a stall in a fixed wing aircraft and they wont do it when flying helicopters either. I suspect many helicopter pilots think all fixed wing pilots have an overwhelming desire to push the stick full forward if they experience an engine failure.

My answer applies to helicopters as it does to fixed wing aircraft but, for simplicity, lets stay with fixed-wing aircraft for the moment.

It is proven that the stall of a wing happens at a certain angle of attack [usually around 14degrees] and has little to do with the speed of the wing. Lift [and drag] increases as angle of attack increases but as the wing reaches the stall angle the lift drops off rapidly [but drag keeps on increasing].

Flight manuals state stall airspeeds but neglect to say these are valid for 1g 'level flight' conditions only. Unfortunately, this leads some pilots to believe that they are safe as long as they are above the stall speed. If they are in a turn or any accelerating manouevre the angle of attack of the wing is different compared to that angle required for normal flight at 1g. The harder they manouevre the nearer the angle of attack gets to the stall angle.

The more you 'pull G' the more acceleration you are experiencing and all of this is caused by the increased lift due to increased angle of attack.


Aircraft such as the Pitts and the Extra are built extremely strong [20G design limit for the Pitts I believe] and have very large tail surfaces that allow the pilot to induce large angles of attack on a whim. I have many hours in Pitts and know it as an superb aircraft capable of doing exactly what you tell it to do and thus able to make fools of people with a less than complete understanding of aerodynamics.

In a Pitts you can fly at 130knots and pull the stick quickly and firmly all the way back to bring the wings to near the stalling angle. Application of rudder at this instance causes a slight side slip which causes one wing to go past the stall angle reducing that wings lift considerably whilst the other wing is still generating very large lift. This is how a flick roll is performed - one wing is stalled and the other is not - hence a very high roll rate with very high Gs as well. Its really more like a spin performed horizontally. within less than a second you are down to 70knots. You can push forward for a negative flick but -5G is not for the feint hearted.

To demonstrate non-stalled flight at below 1g stall speed imagine being at the top of a poorly performed loop and find you have 20knots airspeed over the top. As long as you dont pull too hard you wont stall - you continue to fly around the top of the loop - this is because you have not gone past the stall angle of the wing. The wing is still producing lift but not enough to take the weight of the aircraft under 1g.

Ofcourse nobody should try and do a stall manouevre at Vne as it could apply lift forces greater than design limits and capable of bending the aircraft or worse. But it is perfectly possible to do it! Hence it is possible to stall at any speed you want!

Most normal aircraft dont have the tail surface area [read authority] of a Pitts or Extra and this keeps them safe from over control. The aircraft in your video loses its wings most likely because it was flying fast and they pulled too hard taking the angle of attack to a large value [but not to stall angle] where they created so much lift they broke the spar.

So, stall occurs at a certain angle of attack and can happen at any airspeed given the right conditions.

With regard to my comment about an inexperienced fixed wing pilot recovering from a stall with full forward stick - its a very bad technique to teach. The Pitts can demonstrate why very nicely. If you were in a Pitts and recovered from an upright stall by putting full forward stick you would simply stall the wings with a negative angle of attack and without perfect control of the rudder you will almost definately end up in an inverted spin needing a recovery altitude of approx 700 feet.
Ofcourse the simplest way to recover from a stall in any aircraft is to reduce the force on the stick - this will reduce the angle of attack of the wing and allow un-stalled flight to continue. Ofcourse if you are still pointing up gravity is going to cause further effects.

The aerodynamics of a spinning rotor after engine failure are far more complex but still subject to the same angle of attack and relative airflow issues. Hopefully I have demonstrated how a rotating airfoil can stall even at normal rpm. Stalls can happen to helicopter blades and even jet turbine blades.

OOW