Becoming an Air Ambulance pilot - am I dreaming?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Age: 50
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Becoming an Air Ambulance pilot - am I dreaming?
Hello. I am seriously considering training to become a commercial helicopter pilot and would appreciate some straight, honest advice in response to a few questions:
1. At 37, am I too old to carve out a career as a commercial helicopter pilot?
2. Are there reasonable prospects for employment (either part or full time) if I was to commence and complete a course within the next 18 months?
3. The ultimate objective is to become an air ambulance pilot. Would I have cat in hell's chance of achieving this and what would I need to do?
4. Which is the best rotary wing training establishment?
I've got a fixed wing PPL(A) with 300 hours on some interesting aircraft such as the Pitts S2-B, Yak-52, Extra 300L as well as the usual club aircraft. I'm also extremely lucky to have a good business which is pretty much self sufficient and from which I can continue to draw an income. Therefore, funding whatever training I would need isn't too much of an issue and I could conceivably work for free if this would help get me the right experience towards becoming an air ambulance pilot. This would be the ultimate job for me (and I guess lots of others too!), flying and doing something worthwhile and exciting at the same time but I'm realistic enough to know I would be up against ex-military with lots of hours.
Any advice from people who know what they are talking about would be much appreciated.
Pittsblerke.
1. At 37, am I too old to carve out a career as a commercial helicopter pilot?
2. Are there reasonable prospects for employment (either part or full time) if I was to commence and complete a course within the next 18 months?
3. The ultimate objective is to become an air ambulance pilot. Would I have cat in hell's chance of achieving this and what would I need to do?
4. Which is the best rotary wing training establishment?
I've got a fixed wing PPL(A) with 300 hours on some interesting aircraft such as the Pitts S2-B, Yak-52, Extra 300L as well as the usual club aircraft. I'm also extremely lucky to have a good business which is pretty much self sufficient and from which I can continue to draw an income. Therefore, funding whatever training I would need isn't too much of an issue and I could conceivably work for free if this would help get me the right experience towards becoming an air ambulance pilot. This would be the ultimate job for me (and I guess lots of others too!), flying and doing something worthwhile and exciting at the same time but I'm realistic enough to know I would be up against ex-military with lots of hours.
Any advice from people who know what they are talking about would be much appreciated.
Pittsblerke.
At 37 you could achieve this, however have you looked at the cost of training to CPL standard (hrs and license)? You would probably need to get at least 1500hrs under your belt (to make you employable) and some of that would need to be twin (a guess would be around 1-200hrs).
You are going into a market that is poor at the moment but will hopefully pick up, when you do you will be competing against quite a lot of ex-mil or guys from the offshore industry with masses of experience/hrs.
What sort of time frame are you thinking of?
You are going into a market that is poor at the moment but will hopefully pick up, when you do you will be competing against quite a lot of ex-mil or guys from the offshore industry with masses of experience/hrs.
What sort of time frame are you thinking of?
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're on the other side of the pond, but some things should be the same. EMS is not a young man's game, nor is it a game for the inexperienced of any age. There isn't much flying involved, so it's difficult to maintain proficiency. You may go a month without flying, at least here, and then get a flight in the middle of the night which requires absolutely disciplined, precise flying. If you don't have many years of experience to fall back on, you're putting yourself, the med crew, and the patient at peril. IMO, what most companies require for a minimum is still far too low, but they have to take what they can get.
Becoming a helicopter pilot sounds romantic, but the reality is that it's not romantic at all, it's just a job, and while it beats doing manual labor for a living, it doesn't pay much more, for most pilots. There are far too many low-timers willing to work for peanuts or less for the pay to ever be decent. You need to understand all that going in.
Becoming a helicopter pilot sounds romantic, but the reality is that it's not romantic at all, it's just a job, and while it beats doing manual labor for a living, it doesn't pay much more, for most pilots. There are far too many low-timers willing to work for peanuts or less for the pay to ever be decent. You need to understand all that going in.
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're not too old but, with employment prospects as they are at the moment, you'd be unlikely to amass the hours and experience required to be an air ambulance pilot in the foreseeable future.
This might help
Please don't. You won't be doing yourself, or anyone else in the industry, any favours.
Cheers
Whirls
This might help
and I could conceivably work for free
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
One of the characteristics that an EMS pilot should have is maturity. It appears you have that from both age and business experience.
The variety of FW airplane types helps (believe it or not) and you should expand that (much cheaper than RW types).
Good luck - the pool of suitable pilots fluctuates in depth!
The variety of FW airplane types helps (believe it or not) and you should expand that (much cheaper than RW types).
Good luck - the pool of suitable pilots fluctuates in depth!
and I could conceivably work for free
And my $0.02....... Please don't....there are many in the industry who have spent thousands trying to get the right amount of experience.....some of us need to EARN a living to keep our families....ANYONE who works for free loses the respect of EVERY working helicopter pilot.
For what it is worth....I would say that in the current economic climate, your chances of achieving your "dream job" are slim to none, but for your sake, would love to be proved wrong as long as you respect the rest of us "working" pilots.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are some rotary flying jobs that are naturally attractive - for many HEMS is one of those. I have been fortunate enough to start helicopter flying as a second career and done various really rewarding roles including HEMS pilot. It is possible, but it will never be financially a brilliant option. Various things affect the chances of success: overall things are not good at the moment. However, being selfish you only need one job at a time.
Before you become a particular type of helicopter pilot you will need to gain experience appropriate to that work; arguably that is more difficult than getting the licences and ratings. Acquiring a licence or rating is just the start. In the main, helicopter flying is single pilot flying. A problem is that you cannot sit with Nelly and learn your trade by flying as a co-jo.
In my experience progressing in helicopter flying involves jumping a series of hurdles. You can take different routes but you normally need to jump a hurdle to get to the next stage. Immediately post-licence the first problem is how to gain any additional hours - you are virtually no use as a commercial pilot at that stage. Once you jump that hurdle you need to find a way to become a useful single engine turbine commercial pilot, then to get some twin engine experience and so on.
Be very careful about offering to fly for free. You have seen the reaction here and it is general and understandable. Also, if you are prepared to give yourself for nothing, that might be seen as implying something about how much you value yourself. However, you can usefully spend your time developing good relations with people in the industry. This might well involve spending time doing things ancillary to flying. For example, it would be useful to spend time working at ground handling at pleasure flying.
It is important to develop and keep a good reputation: the hele industry is a small one.
You will also face some difficult decisions. Helicopter flying is hazardous and in the end you need to control the risk you expose yourself to. I have felt obliged to turn down or resign from various jobs where I had serious concerns about safety. Without being too dramatic, in at least one case the pilot who took on a role that I declined is now dead. I recently turned down a job I would have loved to do, because it just did not make any financial sense.
Having means of support outside flying could be very useful. Particularly at first, you may spend a lot of time looking for flying. However, be aware that flying can be all-consuming and deflect you from other bits of your life, including your other business.
I have taken the view that I wanted to enjoy all of the flying that I do. In general, I have done that and enjoyed my early flying just as much as the more exotic stuff.
Before you become a particular type of helicopter pilot you will need to gain experience appropriate to that work; arguably that is more difficult than getting the licences and ratings. Acquiring a licence or rating is just the start. In the main, helicopter flying is single pilot flying. A problem is that you cannot sit with Nelly and learn your trade by flying as a co-jo.
In my experience progressing in helicopter flying involves jumping a series of hurdles. You can take different routes but you normally need to jump a hurdle to get to the next stage. Immediately post-licence the first problem is how to gain any additional hours - you are virtually no use as a commercial pilot at that stage. Once you jump that hurdle you need to find a way to become a useful single engine turbine commercial pilot, then to get some twin engine experience and so on.
Be very careful about offering to fly for free. You have seen the reaction here and it is general and understandable. Also, if you are prepared to give yourself for nothing, that might be seen as implying something about how much you value yourself. However, you can usefully spend your time developing good relations with people in the industry. This might well involve spending time doing things ancillary to flying. For example, it would be useful to spend time working at ground handling at pleasure flying.
It is important to develop and keep a good reputation: the hele industry is a small one.
You will also face some difficult decisions. Helicopter flying is hazardous and in the end you need to control the risk you expose yourself to. I have felt obliged to turn down or resign from various jobs where I had serious concerns about safety. Without being too dramatic, in at least one case the pilot who took on a role that I declined is now dead. I recently turned down a job I would have loved to do, because it just did not make any financial sense.
Having means of support outside flying could be very useful. Particularly at first, you may spend a lot of time looking for flying. However, be aware that flying can be all-consuming and deflect you from other bits of your life, including your other business.
I have taken the view that I wanted to enjoy all of the flying that I do. In general, I have done that and enjoyed my early flying just as much as the more exotic stuff.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In the desert southwest
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
go for it
You will never know until you start down the path. If you don't get your private then you'll never get your commercial or your instructor rating. If you don't get started then you will never know if a flying job might have someday presented itself. If you have enough cash, you can proceed very quickly through the training. Put yourself directly in front of the opportunities and chances are they will hit you square on.
Cheers
www.thegrumpytroll.com
(my brewpub)
Cheers
www.thegrumpytroll.com
(my brewpub)
Let's take it from the top!
1. At 37, am I too old to carve out a career as a commercial helicopter pilot? YES
2. Are there reasonable prospects for employment (either part or full time) if I was to commence and complete a course within the next 18 months? NO
3. The ultimate objective is to become an air ambulance pilot. Would I have cat in hell's chance of achieving this and what would I need to do? NOT EVEN A SNOWBALL'S.
4. Which is the best rotary wing training establishment? THE ONE YOU CHOOSE AND STICK WITH- IT DEPENS MORE ON YOU THAN THEM.
Now, there's always some fool who'll tell you, "Just go for it! Follow your dream!" Unfortunately, this is simply not realistic. Not at 37. See, EMS is not an "entry-level" job in the helicopter world. It's not for beginners or neophytes. You don't necessarily have to be SuperPilot, but EMS is a demanding job that requires a high level of skill and judgment. It will be VERY unlikely that you'll be able to quickly amass the experience (in terms of flight hours)...and more importantly, the seasoning to become an EMS pilot. Then again, you never know. Care to invest 5 - 10 years to see? Yeah, it could take that long to work your way into an EMS position even if you started tomorrow.
And "that long" will involve jobs in which you will be paid very little...surely less than you ever thought possible for a job with such high demands and risks. Uhh, "why?" you ask?
There ya go! Yeah, you and a whole bunch of other people too. That attitude is what has kept the compensation for helicopter pilots down FOREVER. And it is that very attitude that will continue to keep pilot pay down in the future. The industry salutes you! Heck, the industry thrives on people like you.
1. At 37, am I too old to carve out a career as a commercial helicopter pilot? YES
2. Are there reasonable prospects for employment (either part or full time) if I was to commence and complete a course within the next 18 months? NO
3. The ultimate objective is to become an air ambulance pilot. Would I have cat in hell's chance of achieving this and what would I need to do? NOT EVEN A SNOWBALL'S.
4. Which is the best rotary wing training establishment? THE ONE YOU CHOOSE AND STICK WITH- IT DEPENS MORE ON YOU THAN THEM.
Now, there's always some fool who'll tell you, "Just go for it! Follow your dream!" Unfortunately, this is simply not realistic. Not at 37. See, EMS is not an "entry-level" job in the helicopter world. It's not for beginners or neophytes. You don't necessarily have to be SuperPilot, but EMS is a demanding job that requires a high level of skill and judgment. It will be VERY unlikely that you'll be able to quickly amass the experience (in terms of flight hours)...and more importantly, the seasoning to become an EMS pilot. Then again, you never know. Care to invest 5 - 10 years to see? Yeah, it could take that long to work your way into an EMS position even if you started tomorrow.
And "that long" will involve jobs in which you will be paid very little...surely less than you ever thought possible for a job with such high demands and risks. Uhh, "why?" you ask?
I could conceivably work for free if this would help get me the right experience towards becoming an air ambulance pilot.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ems Pilot
Go to Air Methods, PHI, Air Evac, websites and check out their pilot requirements. Look, since you don't need the money, you will really enjoy the journey to becoming a professional helicopter pilot. Once you get a few hundred hours helicopter time, you can start flying tours, instructing, hauling choker cables, photo flights, etc. It's all fun and broadens your experience. The sooner you earn your ATP the easier you will find getting a job. Forget about paying for multi-engine time, except maybe a few hours familiarization. Your first EMS job will be a single engine VFR base. It's just as much fun as a multi-engine IFR assignment. Are you too old? I got my first HEMS job at 50. You have time. email me if you want more detailed info. Good luck. I never met a helo pilot that was sorry he/she started down that path. I don't think that you will be either.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pb,
It is important to see where the posters are based. The answers may be different depending upon where you are talking about......
[E.G. All UK and most European (?) HEMS is twin engine - not the case in the US of A and some other places].
It is important to see where the posters are based. The answers may be different depending upon where you are talking about......
[E.G. All UK and most European (?) HEMS is twin engine - not the case in the US of A and some other places].
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Becoming an Air Ambulance pilot - am I dreaming?
I know I did when standing in the school playground, as a youthful 14 year old watching an RN Gazelle land on our school football pitch. "One day I'll fly one of those", I remember saying to Mr McMillen the science teacher stood next to me. "Of course you will 'Sid' ", was his reply.
Nine years later, there I was on an Observers course at Wallop and 4 years from then, APC and 'Wings'. 34 years later and here I am, still looking youthfully at the aircraft in the hangar that I now fly.
Who would have thought way back then, that from the dream on the school playground I would still have that feeling stood in the hangar tonight. Dreams can and do come true.
However Pittsblerke, as mentioned earlier, time is not on your side.
From a civi side of things I don't really know how long it will take to get the required hours/experience needed for a HEMS job, but you will be up against ex-military guys aged around 40 with many years of experience, all the desired thousands of hours and hoops gone through that are needed by the employers who can take their pick. Basic requirements are likely to be around 2000 TT, 400 twin, and 'relevant experience', however nothing is ever set in stone.
Time and money are the main factors.
You do say "Therefore, funding whatever training I would need isn't too much of an issue", however 1600 hours at £600/hr and 400 hrs at £1000 would come to around £1,360,000 . As far as the experience goes, where and how long it takes to get it is another question.
Never give up the dream, don't be disheartened by any civi/ex-mil arguments and as I've always said to people, whether its an Infantryman, Tankie or Gunner on a visit on exercise, a youth popping over on a static display or a PC on an awareness day...."If you don't try you'll never know, and there'll be nothing worse in years to come for you to be sat there thinking...I wonder if I could have".
All the very best
SS
Still that 14 year old at heart, but with greyer hair and a rounder physique.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Center of the Universe
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Becoming an Air Ambulance pilot - am I dreaming?
Well, I wouldnt attempt to provide an answer to your question or advice, not being employed as a commercial pilot. However I can offer a concrete example of a friend who did this in the U.S., but starting from a somewhat different point. He was in his early forties, with a CFI-airplane when he began flying helicopters. About 3000 hours in airplanes, but not working as a flight instructor, and not flying for a living at the time. Began flying helicopters and decided to pursue it as a career. Did a PPC, CPC, CFI, and CFII working at it full time and flying as an instructor at a small helicopter training school. Over two + years, accumulated a little over 1000 hours, did the ATP, bought a little turbine time (not a lot. more like 25 hours) and got hired by one of the larger EMS operators. After two years there, got recruited to fly EMS for one of the more prestigious hospitals in the U.S. at somewhere around age 45-46.
So, it can be done later in life, but the outcome will depend heavily on one's motivation, skills, and ability to build time quickly and check off the ratings. Will this work for you? You are probably the one best equipped to answer this question.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Your first EMS job will be a single engine VFR base.
bought a little turbine time (not a lot. more like 25 hours) and got hired by one of the larger EMS operators.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Center of the Universe
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, that's incorrect;
Last edited by EN48; 6th Jan 2011 at 01:20.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In the desert southwest
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FH1100
Wants to be the last living helicopter pilot on the planet, therefore there is no hope of anyone of any age from this day forward ever suceeding in the field. Boo Hoo. In ten to fifteen years there will be no helicopters flying anywhere is the sky because it is impossible for anyone to successfully become a helicopter pilot. I hope its not true because after I suffer my first heart attack, I hope a sassy, over confident and arrogant pilot will fly a EMS helo to my front yard and transport me to the hospital where I will be saved and can continue to comment on this site. I further hope that the pilot makes 100 grand a year, works from home, and drives a company car. I am hopeful of all things and confident that the world will continue and the need for helicopter pilots of all skills will be in high demand.
GOFORIT
GOFORIT
Hey, reality is reality. Some of you don't like to face it or admit it.
Grumpytroll spews:
Negative, ghostrider, I never said that.
Never said that either. (Ever hear of the term "reading comprehension?") My opinion is that at age 37 it will be virtually impossible for a guy to have a career as an EMS pilot. Anyone want to throw around some hiring minimums at the various companies? Anyone want to give this guy a REALISTIC estimate of how long it'll take him to build up enough time to get his first (non-EMS) job, much less the 1500 to 2000 hours of r/w PIC time he'll need to fly EMS? Yeaaaah, I didn't think so. And then we'll have yet another 1500-hour EMS pilot out there? Oh, I'm lovin' this idea! I hope he'll at least be sassy and arrogant!
If you don't settle down and start being less angry at the world, that first heart attack might come sooner than you think!
Grumpytroll, do you actually believe what you just wrote? Really? Because we seem to have way too many sassy(?), over-confident and arrogant EMS pilots already, thank you very much. We keep reading about them in the accident reports. For my part, I do hope we have FEWER of them. If I ever need the services of an EMS helicopter (which I doubt will ever happen), I hope it's flown by an experienced, seasoned, conservative pilot who's been around the block a couple of times who won't crash, not some sassy Johnny-come-lately who decided late in life that flying an air ambulance would be "cool."
Stop right there! Hold on! The OP already told us that he'd work for free. You think ANY helicopter pilot is going to make "100 grand" a year flying EMS as long as there are other pilots with the same attitude? Heh, me neither.
Sassy?
Grumpytroll spews:
(FH1100) ...Wants to be the last living helicopter pilot on the planet, therefore there is no hope of anyone of any age from this day forward ever suceeding in the field.
Boo Hoo. In ten to fifteen years there will be no helicopters flying anywhere is the sky because it is impossible for anyone to successfully become a helicopter pilot.
I hope its not true because after I suffer my first heart attack, I hope a sassy, over confident and arrogant pilot will fly a EMS helo to my front yard and transport me to the hospital where I will be saved and can continue to comment on this site.
Grumpytroll, do you actually believe what you just wrote? Really? Because we seem to have way too many sassy(?), over-confident and arrogant EMS pilots already, thank you very much. We keep reading about them in the accident reports. For my part, I do hope we have FEWER of them. If I ever need the services of an EMS helicopter (which I doubt will ever happen), I hope it's flown by an experienced, seasoned, conservative pilot who's been around the block a couple of times who won't crash, not some sassy Johnny-come-lately who decided late in life that flying an air ambulance would be "cool."
I further hope that the pilot makes 100 grand a year...
Sassy?