NH-90 problems
Norway to return NH Industries helicopters, seek repayment
Reuters1 minute read
OSLO, June 10 (Reuters) - Norway will return the NH90 military helicopters it ordered from France's NH Industries because they are either unreliable or were delivered late, the defence minister and the head of the military said on Friday.
The government said it would also seek repayment of 5 billion crowns ($523 million) plus interest other costs from NH Industries, which is owned by Airbus Helicopters (AIR.PA), Italy's Leonardo (LDOF.MI) and Fokker Aerostructuresof the Netherlands.
NH Industries was not immediately available for comment.
No matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces," Defence Minister Bjoern Arild Gram told a news conference.
The original contract for 14 helicopters was signed in 2001 but Norway has received only eight, the ministry said. "We have a helicopter that doesn't work the way it's supposed to," said General Eirik Kristoffersen, the head of Norway's armed forces.
($1 = 9.5572 Norwegian crowns)
Reporting by Gwladys Fouche; editing by Terje Solsvik and Jason Neely
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2022-06-10/
It appears that they need an urgent replacement so what is the obvious choice?
Sikorsky MH-60R
or
Leonardo AW159 Wildcat.
cheers
Photos of the NH-80 in flight from the OEM raised a question as to the AOA that the rotor was running at, which in turn impacts the hysteresis in CL, CM, CD on the blade and the subsequent SR of loads in the rotor head. Nothing that another few feet of blade span or increased Cl wouldn't sort out. The question became more interesting when looking at the location of erosion damage on the blades, it is quite unusual, and is a maintenance factor in keeping the blender happy. Fixable, sure, but there is little interest from the OEM or operators in fixing the machine. It is impractical to add half a dozen feet of the blade to the system, gets pretty noisy around the tail but only for a fraction of a second. Two choppers and a tilt-rotor cry out for some help the NH90, the PAH Tiger, and the V/MV-22. It's not rocket science, JC Lin worked the graphs 30+ years ago, but the operators remain with the mediocrity of a rotor system that defies rational explanation. Rotors dynamically pitch rapidly, that's just what they do, so all of the optimizations of worrying over an 0012 or an Onera OA-209 section or an SC-1094, VR-7, RC-04 etc is borderline vacuous, once the blade starts spinning, it has massive hysteresis which looks more like a P crossed with an italic D for CL and CM, and all of the worry that goes into getting the Cm just right, such as reflexed camber lines, well the Cm gets to look like an upside-down and mirror-reversed big L. both lift and drag are adversely affected, but al least it is only biggly, and the Cm messes with everything connected to the spinning stuff at the top. Getting rid of the Cm is in the words of the HH-3/SK61 TP: "spooky".
The rotor designs do benefit from tip sweep, BERP etc but the majority of the blade is just adding pain to the exercise, and that is needless.
The rotor designs do benefit from tip sweep, BERP etc but the majority of the blade is just adding pain to the exercise, and that is needless.
If spare part delivery was such as problem, it might be a quicker and more secure option to recoup some money by parting out the 13 aircraft and selling to the highest bidder.
Thread Starter
Obviously, lots of activity has been occurring in the NH90 word in the last week. Now the French Government is stepping in to attempt to resolve an issue that neither Airbus or Leonardo appear to be able to resolve - I'm not sure that's a very good outcome for two of the largest helicopter manufacturers who appear unable to sort this problem out themselves after decades of lost opportunity. Once again Airbus gets quietly bailed out by the French Government - remember the 160 orders?
Of equal or greater concern is the extremely serious issue of medium helicopter mobility for militaries that have had the misfortune to place their faith in this platform. With a war continuing in Europe, this platform is a primary asset for Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden. This helicopter is currently compromising NATO security and capabilities across Europe and requires some serious remedial action, although some might doubt the outcome of this latest campaign before it even starts - you've had decades to resolve these issues, and nothing thus far has succeded. I'm sure that many might doubt the effectiveness of the latest solution to get rolled out. Spare parts shortages are only a part of the failings of this product.
https://verticalmag.com/news/french-...-to-help-nh90/
BY GLENN SANDS | JUNE 13, 2022Estimated reading time 4 minutes, 28 seconds.
Following the cancellation by Norway of their entire NH90 contract, the French government announced on June 13, a new contract for the helicopter, to demonstrate its commitment to the program moving forward.
The French government said the new contract would focus on resolving the issue of a spares shortage for the helicopter, which in part was one of the reasons for Norway axing its program.
A new order announced by the French government demonstrates its faith in the NH90 helicopter’s future. Photo NHIndustriesA press release from the French Ministry of Armed Forces cited: Signing of the new operational support contract for the NH90 helicopter: improving the availability of the French and German fleets while strengthening cooperation with partner nations
The NAHEMA (NATO Helicopter Management Agency) signed on May 23 on behalf of France and Germany, with the NH Industries consortium (composed of Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo, and Fokker), the new operational support contract for the NH90, a performance-based service contract.
The NH90 has been a “combat-proven” helicopter for several years, which has already proven its high added value in external operations for the Army and the French Navy during deployments on combat ships for the fight against underwater.
However, the NH90 has also suffered from spare parts shortages in recent years, resulting in largely insufficient operational availability.
The objective of this new contract: is that the armies immediately have spare parts for maintenance and repairs. This is to meet the requirements of operational availability.
To sustainably increase the operational availability of the NH90 fleet, the first stage of work was carried out in 2020 by NAHEMA, the General Armament Directorate (DGA) and the Aeronautical Maintenance Directorate (DMAé) for the French armies, and the NH Industries consortium. The team of experts formed then extended the support contract initially designed around French needs, for operational support adapted to all partner nations using NH90 helicopters. In an extremely short but intensive period, the experts have thus transcribed all the complexity of the logistics into a long-term contract (three times five years) with a target of 50% availability from the start of 2023.
First, the supply of spare parts will now be the industry’s responsibility. This includes the material planning of manufacturing, storage based on needs and the respect of delivery times in the warehouses of the units of each of the armies concerned, as well as industrial repairs carried out at Airbus Helicopters. Industry experts will also be distributed among the units to facilitate technical exchanges and maintenance forecasts. Then, the duration of maintenance visits will evolve according to clear commitments to reduce the time devoted to this task. Finally, a performance incentive process has been established to encourage manufacturers to exceed availability targets. NH Industries, and Airbus Helicopters, in particular, are committed to achieving the fixed availability rate and flight hours targets, required, and guaranteed in this new NH90 operational support contract.
This contract is the first step towards more effective joint support, for the benefit of all the partner nations of the NHS90 program. France and Germany will be the first to apply it. Other nations have already expressed their intention to join them in the medium term, at the same time strengthening cooperation between all participants in the NH90 program.
Of equal or greater concern is the extremely serious issue of medium helicopter mobility for militaries that have had the misfortune to place their faith in this platform. With a war continuing in Europe, this platform is a primary asset for Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden. This helicopter is currently compromising NATO security and capabilities across Europe and requires some serious remedial action, although some might doubt the outcome of this latest campaign before it even starts - you've had decades to resolve these issues, and nothing thus far has succeded. I'm sure that many might doubt the effectiveness of the latest solution to get rolled out. Spare parts shortages are only a part of the failings of this product.
https://verticalmag.com/news/french-...-to-help-nh90/
New French military order set to resolve NH90 issues
BY GLENN SANDS | JUNE 13, 2022Estimated reading time 4 minutes, 28 seconds.Following the cancellation by Norway of their entire NH90 contract, the French government announced on June 13, a new contract for the helicopter, to demonstrate its commitment to the program moving forward.
The French government said the new contract would focus on resolving the issue of a spares shortage for the helicopter, which in part was one of the reasons for Norway axing its program.
A new order announced by the French government demonstrates its faith in the NH90 helicopter’s future. Photo NHIndustriesA press release from the French Ministry of Armed Forces cited: Signing of the new operational support contract for the NH90 helicopter: improving the availability of the French and German fleets while strengthening cooperation with partner nationsThe NAHEMA (NATO Helicopter Management Agency) signed on May 23 on behalf of France and Germany, with the NH Industries consortium (composed of Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo, and Fokker), the new operational support contract for the NH90, a performance-based service contract.
The NH90 has been a “combat-proven” helicopter for several years, which has already proven its high added value in external operations for the Army and the French Navy during deployments on combat ships for the fight against underwater.
However, the NH90 has also suffered from spare parts shortages in recent years, resulting in largely insufficient operational availability.
The objective of this new contract: is that the armies immediately have spare parts for maintenance and repairs. This is to meet the requirements of operational availability.
To sustainably increase the operational availability of the NH90 fleet, the first stage of work was carried out in 2020 by NAHEMA, the General Armament Directorate (DGA) and the Aeronautical Maintenance Directorate (DMAé) for the French armies, and the NH Industries consortium. The team of experts formed then extended the support contract initially designed around French needs, for operational support adapted to all partner nations using NH90 helicopters. In an extremely short but intensive period, the experts have thus transcribed all the complexity of the logistics into a long-term contract (three times five years) with a target of 50% availability from the start of 2023.
First, the supply of spare parts will now be the industry’s responsibility. This includes the material planning of manufacturing, storage based on needs and the respect of delivery times in the warehouses of the units of each of the armies concerned, as well as industrial repairs carried out at Airbus Helicopters. Industry experts will also be distributed among the units to facilitate technical exchanges and maintenance forecasts. Then, the duration of maintenance visits will evolve according to clear commitments to reduce the time devoted to this task. Finally, a performance incentive process has been established to encourage manufacturers to exceed availability targets. NH Industries, and Airbus Helicopters, in particular, are committed to achieving the fixed availability rate and flight hours targets, required, and guaranteed in this new NH90 operational support contract.
This contract is the first step towards more effective joint support, for the benefit of all the partner nations of the NHS90 program. France and Germany will be the first to apply it. Other nations have already expressed their intention to join them in the medium term, at the same time strengthening cooperation between all participants in the NH90 program.
Thread Starter
Farnborough 2022: Swedish Air Force loses patience with NH90, considers going the ‘way of Norway
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/d...way-of-norway/
18th July 2022 - 10:58 GMT | by Tim Martin in Farnborough
Sweden is actively considering whether or not to prematurely end NH90 operations. (Photo: NHIndustries)
Will Sweden follow in the footsteps of Norway and prematurely end NH90 operations.
Maj Gen Carl-Johan Edstrom, chief of the Swedish Air Force, has vented his frustration at under-fire manufacturer NHIndustries, claiming that the NH90 partner is not ‘delivering what they should’ and revealing that consideration is being given to whether or not Sweden prematurely replaces the country’s fleet.Speaking at a 17 July press briefing in London, Edstrom said that Sweden’s supreme military commander Gen Micael Bydén will issue guidance on the country’s long-term helicopter modernisation strategy in November 2022.
Edstrom noted that a final phase of study is underway.
‘The big decision will be what we do with the NH90 and whether we continue to operate it or go the way of Norway and select another system,’ Edstrom said. ‘We are still a strong partner in the NH90 family and we have talked to countries [including Norway] that have made decisions about changing the system. The NH90 is not delivering what it should be at the moment.’
Sweden operates 18 NH90 helicopters with the designation Helikopter 14: nine built to the TTH configuration and nine for SAR/anti-submarine warfare missions.
While Edstrom did not talk of operational problems associated with the fleet, prior reports have often focused on aircraft deliveries being significantly delayed.
In the wake of Norway cancelling its NH90 contract, the renewed public criticism of the helicopter will cause concern for NHIndustries.
Besides what happens in the near future with Helicopter 14, Edstrom confirmed that ‘no decision had been taken yet’ regarding which 'basic' training helicopter succeeds the AW109 (Helikopter 15) ahead of the fleet being phased out from 2030 onwards.
He said that Sweden’s UH-60M Black Hawks are operating ‘really well’ and will benefit from ‘continuous upgrades’ to stay in service until 2040.
Sweden also intends to replace four of its C-130H transport aircraft with newer C-130J models from 2028 and it aims to proceed with a Gripen C/D upgrade that will include integration of the RBS15 Mk4 anti-ship missile and a ‘new radar capability’, according to Edstrom.
Swedish Air Force plans call for an additional Gripen squadron in 2030 and it aims thereafter to retain a full complement of 60 Gripen C/D and 60 E/F variants.
‘We will release new upgrades almost yearly for Gripen, mostly software upgrades and hardware upgrades every three to four years,’ added Edstrom. ‘The main reason for this is to remain operationally relevant as a fighting force but also ensure optimised management at industry level.’
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/d...way-of-norway/
18th July 2022 - 10:58 GMT | by Tim Martin in Farnborough
Sweden is actively considering whether or not to prematurely end NH90 operations. (Photo: NHIndustries)
Will Sweden follow in the footsteps of Norway and prematurely end NH90 operations.
Maj Gen Carl-Johan Edstrom, chief of the Swedish Air Force, has vented his frustration at under-fire manufacturer NHIndustries, claiming that the NH90 partner is not ‘delivering what they should’ and revealing that consideration is being given to whether or not Sweden prematurely replaces the country’s fleet.Speaking at a 17 July press briefing in London, Edstrom said that Sweden’s supreme military commander Gen Micael Bydén will issue guidance on the country’s long-term helicopter modernisation strategy in November 2022.
Edstrom noted that a final phase of study is underway.
‘The big decision will be what we do with the NH90 and whether we continue to operate it or go the way of Norway and select another system,’ Edstrom said. ‘We are still a strong partner in the NH90 family and we have talked to countries [including Norway] that have made decisions about changing the system. The NH90 is not delivering what it should be at the moment.’
Sweden operates 18 NH90 helicopters with the designation Helikopter 14: nine built to the TTH configuration and nine for SAR/anti-submarine warfare missions.
While Edstrom did not talk of operational problems associated with the fleet, prior reports have often focused on aircraft deliveries being significantly delayed.
In the wake of Norway cancelling its NH90 contract, the renewed public criticism of the helicopter will cause concern for NHIndustries.
Besides what happens in the near future with Helicopter 14, Edstrom confirmed that ‘no decision had been taken yet’ regarding which 'basic' training helicopter succeeds the AW109 (Helikopter 15) ahead of the fleet being phased out from 2030 onwards.
He said that Sweden’s UH-60M Black Hawks are operating ‘really well’ and will benefit from ‘continuous upgrades’ to stay in service until 2040.
Sweden also intends to replace four of its C-130H transport aircraft with newer C-130J models from 2028 and it aims to proceed with a Gripen C/D upgrade that will include integration of the RBS15 Mk4 anti-ship missile and a ‘new radar capability’, according to Edstrom.
Swedish Air Force plans call for an additional Gripen squadron in 2030 and it aims thereafter to retain a full complement of 60 Gripen C/D and 60 E/F variants.
‘We will release new upgrades almost yearly for Gripen, mostly software upgrades and hardware upgrades every three to four years,’ added Edstrom. ‘The main reason for this is to remain operationally relevant as a fighting force but also ensure optimised management at industry level.’
"He said that Sweden’s UH-60M Black Hawks are operating ‘really well’ and will benefit from ‘continuous upgrades’ to stay in service until 2040."
Buy something proven and actually get something that works, on time, on budget and available now..
Buy something proven and actually get something that works, on time, on budget and available now..
What has that to do with helicopters?
airsound
(Memory vague, believe extradition was involved)
Is that the kind of thing you are referring to?
(Granted, I got that second hand - there may be some more missing pieces to that story)
(This is not to be confused with the Seahawks which were in fact bought by the Spanish Navy)
No, I wasn't thinking of any of those things, Lonewolf! I was merely reacting to ericferret's startling idea to
The KC-46 immediately leapt to my mind as a prime example of a procurement where that didn't happen. I'm sorry you were so offended by that thought.
airsound
Buy something proven and actually get something that works, on time, on budget and available now..
airsound
I understand that this is a 'rumour network' but the odd FACT would not go amiss.
There is only one option that can be delivered in the timeframe and at the quantities required and with the role configs already approved - and with EXACTLY the same engines as we are already using for AH64E. And it's not the 60-'M'.
It's a model with genuine UK content - as we all know, the airframe is the 'cheap' bit, it's the Bells & Whistles which cost.
A combat-proven design (>2-million hours) recently used for the Jolly Green 2 and to be supported to 2070.
A type where there are immediate avenues where UK air and groundcrews could go and get experience on type so no manning gap.
A type previously and currently flown by UK serving personnel.
A type that actually exists (>15-million hours) in required format - not 'imagined'
Out of interest, how much are you getting paid to repeat this stuff ad nauseum?
Last edited by Bravo73; 21st Jul 2022 at 20:03.
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Anyone know if the NH90 ever got the external liferaft pods they were supposed to have?
It certainly doesn't look like it from all the photos I can find and no references on the net.
Asking for a friend.
It certainly doesn't look like it from all the photos I can find and no references on the net.
Asking for a friend.
Thread Starter
Not sure what the fuss is about.
I understand that this is a 'rumour network' but the odd FACT would not go amiss.
There is only one option that can be delivered in the timeframe and at the quantities required and with the role configs already approved - and with EXACTLY the same engines as we are already using for AH64E. And it's not the 60-'M'.
It's a model with genuine UK content - as we all know, the airframe is the 'cheap' bit, it's the Bells & Whistles which cost.
A combat-proven design (>2-million hours) recently used for the Jolly Green 2 and to be supported to 2070.
A type where there are immediate avenues where UK air and groundcrews could go and get experience on type so no manning gap.
A type previously and currently flown by UK serving personnel.
A type that actually exists (>15-million hours) in required format - not 'imagined'
I understand that this is a 'rumour network' but the odd FACT would not go amiss.
There is only one option that can be delivered in the timeframe and at the quantities required and with the role configs already approved - and with EXACTLY the same engines as we are already using for AH64E. And it's not the 60-'M'.
It's a model with genuine UK content - as we all know, the airframe is the 'cheap' bit, it's the Bells & Whistles which cost.
A combat-proven design (>2-million hours) recently used for the Jolly Green 2 and to be supported to 2070.
A type where there are immediate avenues where UK air and groundcrews could go and get experience on type so no manning gap.
A type previously and currently flown by UK serving personnel.
A type that actually exists (>15-million hours) in required format - not 'imagined'