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NH-90 problems

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NH-90 problems

Old 28th Jul 2022, 15:12
  #221 (permalink)  
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And now they need a new CEO at NH Industries. Talk about a poisoned chalice.

https://asianaviation.com/atr-appoin...utive-officer/
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 00:44
  #222 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline View Post
And now they need a new CEO at NH Industries. Talk about a poisoned chalice.

https://asianaviation.com/atr-appoin...utive-officer/
That may be about time for this program. The NH90 on paper had all the right bells and whistles and seems to have still failed to meet expectations in the field. A 40% availability for the system seems to suggest that spares and MPD expectations missed the mark. How that remains a problem for a product that is in production is surprising, a sure way to minimize the market is to neglect the current customers' spares needs while chasing new customers.

As it stands, they are a great advertisement for Sikorsky products.
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 20:17
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Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline View Post
And now they need a new CEO at NH Industries. Talk about a poisoned chalice.

https://asianaviation.com/atr-appoin...utive-officer/
From that brief article, I read between the lines a little bit and get the idea that she got kicked upstairs. Or was that a promotion?
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 13:26
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as we have seen with the wider NH90 fiasco - they are well-versed in sloping shoulders and excuses
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 15:13
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Twenty years ago the Nordic countries (NSHP) made their decisions to procure European aircraft. Sikorsky and Boeing legacy aircraft the Blackhawk, Seahawk and Chinook were all rejected as old technology solutions. The S-92, a finalist in the competition, was also rejected across the board. Now, as back then, those legacy aircraft are rising to fulfill the needs as proven supportable and very capable machines.
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Old 9th Aug 2022, 22:39
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Rumour is that Australia will not be replacing the MRH-90 with UH-60M. Budgetary issues and low on the priority order. MRH to stay.
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Old 27th Aug 2022, 08:08
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Approval granted yesterday by US to acquire 40 UH-60M for Australian Army , US will fast track delivery with US slots if the order goes thru, the ADF want them but the new Labor govt are not known for defence spending and as Doors Off said the Labor govt may try and sidetrack the replacement. They are locked into the AH-64 and Self Propelled Howitzer buy but may squirm out of Black Hawk buy.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 00:44
  #228 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9 View Post
Approval granted yesterday by US to acquire 40 UH-60M for Australian Army , US will fast track delivery with US slots if the order goes thru, the ADF want them but the new Labor govt are not known for defence spending and as Doors Off said the Labor govt may try and sidetrack the replacement. They are locked into the AH-64 and Self Propelled Howitzer buy but may squirm out of Black Hawk buy.
How did the ADF end up making decisions to end up with the NH-90 in the first place? Were the program risks from the gap from expectations to reality reasonably weighted?
Heavier lift capability than the -60 is a reasonable capability to have, the CH-47s needed some replacement program but for the ADF they are a niche capability, that needed high levels of confidence in meeting requirements.

Same question re the PAH Tiger. Of all the choices that existed out there with potential for better program outcomes, how on earth did the ADF end up with a kitten vs a Tiger?
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 01:06
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How did the ADF end up making decisions to end up with the NH-90 in the first place?
I suspect the local work offset in construction was the deciding factor, four being manufactured in Europe, and 42 being manufactured locally by Australian Aerospace (an Airbus Helicopters subsidiary) in Brisbane. I think "manufactured" in the article I got the detail from may be loosely used.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 03:27
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The politicians' decisions on where to put the manufacturing ("Where do we need the votes?") over-rides any preferences the ADF has on type and off-the-shelfness.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 04:01
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Originally Posted by Jack Carson View Post
Twenty years ago the Nordic countries (NSHP) made their decisions to procure European aircraft. Sikorsky and Boeing legacy aircraft the Blackhawk, Seahawk and Chinook were all rejected as old technology solutions. The S-92, a finalist in the competition, was also rejected across the board. Now, as back then, those legacy aircraft are rising to fulfill the needs as proven supportable and very capable machines.
Don't get butt hurt. NH90 is still one of the most cutting edge type in its class today after 10 years. The only handful of S92, the only mil variant is not even flying with the only one customer. The problem are the sub types (not variants!) and bizarre work share. Same goes to S92's only example.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 13:11
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S-92 vs all the competitors

My point was not that the S-92 wasn’t selected but that the legacy machines were not even considered. I agree that military variants of a commercial S-92 may not have ever measured up. One only has to look at the long and troubled Canadian Cormorant development as an example.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 13:21
  #233 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
I suspect the local work offset in construction was the deciding factor, four being manufactured in Europe, and 42 being manufactured locally by Australian Aerospace (an Airbus Helicopters subsidiary) in Brisbane. I think "manufactured" in the article I got the detail from may be loosely used.
Aussie Aerospace, yup. An EADS program, How did they go fixing the problems of the NHI product? Did that affect their bottom line?

I concur that the potential for the NH-90 was interesting. Another 4' of rotor diameter would have cured some ills. Not having parts in a new program for current operators is a bad look.

As a project, it was less frustrating than the LAMPS debacle, NZL and the USN still thank all concerned for their generosity on that score.


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Old 29th Aug 2022, 12:01
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Originally Posted by Jack Carson View Post
One only has to look at the long and troubled Canadian Cormorant development as an example.
The CH-148 (S-92 Mil) and the NH90 somewhat share the same pains: Too much tech for too little gain. It looked interesting on paper but reality caught up on them. A bit similar like the full carbon wonder airliners (A350 +787). The more the manufacturers learned, the heavier they got. At the end both were fighting to keep the promises that were based on the hopes of weight and performance gains by composite miracles that didn't fully materialise. Same witrh NH-90 and S-92. The promises of tech led the manufacturers to offer endless variants and features which differentiated them from Legacy Aircraft (Mechanically, Rotorcraft are mostly end- developed -there is no more miracle left to uncover -cue the ACRB on Chinook Block II). The complexity finally overwhelmed the manufacturers.
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Old 1st Nov 2022, 19:25
  #235 (permalink)  
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https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2022/11/01/sweden-plans-to-axe-nh90-fleet/

Sweden Plans to Axe NH90 Fleet

November 1, 2022 - by Daniel DarlingUnder new defense spending and equipment plans laid out by Sweden’s defense chief, General Micael Byden, Sweden plans to follow the lead of neighboring Norway and retire its existing fleet of NH90 helicopters. The proposal – which would see the NH90s replaced by Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawks and a yet-to-be-determined-type – was revealed on November 1.

The Swedish fleet is currently used in multiple missions, including transport, search-and-rescue (SAR) and anti-submarine warfare (ASW).

The Swedish military also operates a fleet of 15 UH-60M Black Hawk utility helicopters that were acquired through the U.S. government-to-government foreign military sales (FMS) channel in 2010to help address a shortfall in medevac and combat SAR rotor-lift capabilities in the Afghan theater.

The acquisition of the UH-60Ms emerged as an urgent requirement due to delays in Sweden’s NH90 deliveries, which fell years behind schedule.

Ordered in September 2001, the Swedish NH90 complement of 18 units was supposed to be delivered and reach full operational capability (FOC) standard by 2008. Instead, the procurement was beset with delays, and the Swedish Air Force only received its first complement of NH90s in initial operational capability (IOC) configuration (four basic configuration models) in April 2011.

The final Swedish NH90 – referred to as HKP 14 in Swedish service – was handed over to Sweden’s defense procurement arm, the FMV, at the production facility in Marignane, France, in July 2019.

After undertaking a review of its NH90 fleet earlier this year, Swedish officials noted the need to update the ASW capabilities on the naval variant (HKP 14F) while voicing concern over the availability of the ground-based transport types (the HKP 14E variant). By this time Swedish frustration with the platform had already mounted.

Byden’s proposal will see the NH90 fleet begin being withdrawn in 2024 with the entire fleet retired by 2030.

During the same 2024-2030 period a parallel acquisition for a new maritime platform will run, while additional UH-60 Black Hawks are also procured. Any delays encountered in delivery of replacements will result in more gradual NH90 withdrawals, but the entire fleet is to be retired by 2035 at the latest under the new plans.

The proposal has yet to be approved by the Swedish government but will likely move ahead.


Meanwhile, the NH90 continues to suffer blows on the global market.

The Australian government announced on December 10, 2021, that the Australian Army will be prematurely retiring its fleet of NH90s (referred to in Australian service as the MRH90 Taipan) and replacing them with up to 40 UH-60M Black Hawks.

Norway then announced the termination of its contract with NH Industries on June 10, 2022 and plans to return the 13 NH90 helicopters it has so far received in return for a full refund of the NOK5 billion ($500 million) invested in their acquisition.

Sweden’s dissatisfaction with the platform is just the latest chapter in the NH90 story.

For its part, NH Industries – the three-way consortium involving Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo and GKN/Fokker – maintains that the low levels of availability to the Swedish fleet in recent years are due to a combination of customized Swedish requirements and a retrofit and upgrade program begun in 2017 that is expected to wrap up next year.





Meanwhile, the NH90 continues to suffer blows on the global market.

The Australian government announced on December 10, 2021, that the Australian Army will be prematurely retiring its fleet of NH90s (referred to in Australian service as the MRH90 Taipan) and replacing them with up to 40 UH-60M Black Hawks.

Norway then announced the termination of its contract with NH Industries on June 10, 2022 and plans to return the 13 NH90 helicopters it has so far received in return for a full refund of the NOK5 billion ($500 million) invested in their acquisition.

Sweden’s dissatisfaction with the platform is just the latest chapter in the NH90 story.

For its part, NH Industries – the three-way consortium involving Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo and GKN/Fokker – maintains that the low levels of availability to the Swedish fleet in recent years are due to a combination of customized Swedish requirements and a retrofit and upgrade program begun in 2017 that is expected to wrap up next year.
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 01:04
  #236 (permalink)  
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Norwegian NH90 cancellation and refund demand ‘legally groundless', says manufacturer

by Gareth Jennings Nov 4, 2022, 14:05 PM
Norway's decision to cancel its NH90 helicopter contract earlier in 2022 and to demand a refund has been described by NHIndustries (NHI) as “legally groundless”.

NHI has reiterated its earlier position that it would not accept Norwayʼs decision to axe its NH90 programme and demand a refund, with the consortium saying the countryʼs position on the matter is “legally groundless”. (Royal Norwegian Air Force)Norway's decision to cancel its NH90 helicopter contract earlier in 2022 and to demand a refund has been described by NHIndustries (NHI) as “legally groundless”.

The assertion came in a 3 November earnings statement released by NHI stakeholder Leonardo about five months after Norway said that the type was unable to fulfil the requirements of the armed forces. Norway had said that it would seek a full refund of the approximately NOK5 billion (USD474 million) it has paid for its NH90 NATO Frigate Helicopters (NFHs), plus interest and other expenses.

“In June, the Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency (NDMA) formalised a request for termination for default under the contract – governed by the Norwegian laws – for the supply of 14 NH90 helicopters, which had been entered into in 2001 , with NHI, a company incorporated under French law, the shareholdings of which are held by Leonardo, Airbus Helicopters, and Fokker Aerostructure, due to alleged delays and alleged product non-conformities.

“The contract has been subject to extensions and amendments over the years and was expected to be completed by the end of 2023. NDMAʼs request is to return the 13 helicopters that have already been delivered and accepted and claim repayment of the disbursed amounts, including interest. NHI considers this request for termination for default legally groundless and reasonably challengeable in any appropriate forum due to lack of factual and legal basis, misinterpretation of the contract and the Norwegian law, as well as breach of confidentiality obligations,” the consortium said.
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 09:39
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Megan wrote

I suspect the local work offset in construction was the deciding factor, four being manufactured in Europe, and 42 being manufactured locally by Australian Aerospace (an Airbus Helicopters subsidiary) in Brisbane. I think "manufactured" in the article I got the detail from may be loosely used.
And yet for the MH60-R program, in spite of the offer of generous offset programs, the Government of the day turned them down.
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline View Post

Norwegian NH90 cancellation and refund demand ‘legally groundless', says manufacturer

by Gareth Jennings Nov 4, 2022, 14:05 PM
Norway's decision to cancel its NH90 helicopter contract earlier in 2022 and to demand a refund has been described by NHIndustries (NHI) as “legally groundless”.

NHI has reiterated its earlier position that it would not accept Norwayʼs decision to axe its NH90 programme and demand a refund, with the consortium saying the countryʼs position on the matter is “legally groundless”. (Royal Norwegian Air Force)Norway's decision to cancel its NH90 helicopter contract earlier in 2022 and to demand a refund has been described by NHIndustries (NHI) as “legally groundless”.

The assertion came in a 3 November earnings statement released by NHI stakeholder Leonardo about five months after Norway said that the type was unable to fulfil the requirements of the armed forces. Norway had said that it would seek a full refund of the approximately NOK5 billion (USD474 million) it has paid for its NH90 NATO Frigate Helicopters (NFHs), plus interest and other expenses.

“In June, the Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency (NDMA) formalised a request for termination for default under the contract – governed by the Norwegian laws – for the supply of 14 NH90 helicopters, which had been entered into in 2001 , with NHI, a company incorporated under French law, the shareholdings of which are held by Leonardo, Airbus Helicopters, and Fokker Aerostructure, due to alleged delays and alleged product non-conformities.

“The contract has been subject to extensions and amendments over the years and was expected to be completed by the end of 2023. NDMAʼs request is to return the 13 helicopters that have already been delivered and accepted and claim repayment of the disbursed amounts, including interest. NHI considers this request for termination for default legally groundless and reasonably challengeable in any appropriate forum due to lack of factual and legal basis, misinterpretation of the contract and the Norwegian law, as well as breach of confidentiality obligations,” the consortium said.
Now can we interest you in our new line in helicopters?
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 15:06
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So, why are the Kiwis pretty happy with their NH90's. They have the ship with the highest hours. They must do something right. What is it?
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 10:41
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Originally Posted by Rotorbee View Post
So, why are the Kiwis pretty happy with their NH90's. They have the ship with the highest hours. They must do something right. What is it?
And yet they aren't that happy with them, over operating budget, lower serviceability than expected, if this is the high time operator you can see how bad everyone else is with them.
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