SLF and Flight Profiles
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SLF and Flight Profiles
I'm starting a new thread on a side discussion from the AW-139 tail boom failure thread.
In it, airwave45 noted an unusual (to him) departure profile, and said that he didn't understand why this was done. He posited that the heat flow over the tail boom might be a problem.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/386...ml#post5164120
There were some follow-up comments about people commenting on things they don't understand. To some folk's credit, there were some responses explaining the maneuver.
The key point here is that he should have understood. The idea that passengers should shut up and enjoy the ride is outdated, condescending, and frankly - egotistical on the part of pilots and management.
If something is going on in a flight that concerns a passenger, then someone isn't doing their job. We (aviation logistics department for a GoM O&G company) try very hard to explain to our customers/passengers what is being done and why. We also solicit their comments on all aspects of the service to ensure that it meets company expectations.
When we introduced PC2 profiles, we communicated why we were doing it to our employees, and we hung the profile depictions in the passenger briefing rooms for their reference.
Someone involved in the operation referenced by airwave45 should have taken the time upon introduction of the AW-139 to explain the new flight profiles and why they were being implemented. It would have been a good way to reduce anxiety in the back, and a way to get feedback if the proper profile wasn't flown for some reason.
Finally, a couple of years ago we had a passenger avert a midair collision. Our aircraft and another company's aircraft were turning to the same heading at the same altitude from opposite directions, and they ended up belly up to each other and closing. Neither pilot saw the other aircraft and the collision avoidance equipment didn't give an alert. The only thing that kept them from banging into each other was the passenger who got our pilot's eyes onto the approaching aircraft. The pilots related that they missed each other by about 50 feet. I'm glad that our passenger didn't feel that his only recourse was to sit on his hands and shut up. I would hope yours feel the same way.
In it, airwave45 noted an unusual (to him) departure profile, and said that he didn't understand why this was done. He posited that the heat flow over the tail boom might be a problem.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/386...ml#post5164120
There were some follow-up comments about people commenting on things they don't understand. To some folk's credit, there were some responses explaining the maneuver.
The key point here is that he should have understood. The idea that passengers should shut up and enjoy the ride is outdated, condescending, and frankly - egotistical on the part of pilots and management.
If something is going on in a flight that concerns a passenger, then someone isn't doing their job. We (aviation logistics department for a GoM O&G company) try very hard to explain to our customers/passengers what is being done and why. We also solicit their comments on all aspects of the service to ensure that it meets company expectations.
When we introduced PC2 profiles, we communicated why we were doing it to our employees, and we hung the profile depictions in the passenger briefing rooms for their reference.
Someone involved in the operation referenced by airwave45 should have taken the time upon introduction of the AW-139 to explain the new flight profiles and why they were being implemented. It would have been a good way to reduce anxiety in the back, and a way to get feedback if the proper profile wasn't flown for some reason.
Finally, a couple of years ago we had a passenger avert a midair collision. Our aircraft and another company's aircraft were turning to the same heading at the same altitude from opposite directions, and they ended up belly up to each other and closing. Neither pilot saw the other aircraft and the collision avoidance equipment didn't give an alert. The only thing that kept them from banging into each other was the passenger who got our pilot's eyes onto the approaching aircraft. The pilots related that they missed each other by about 50 feet. I'm glad that our passenger didn't feel that his only recourse was to sit on his hands and shut up. I would hope yours feel the same way.
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Skiddriver!
Not sure if you have ever been to this part of the world but trying to explain a take off profile to the passengers would take forever. Most don't speak good enough English to understand how to use the PTT button on the headset let alone explaining why we are going to be doing a Cat A take off.
By the time they are on the A/C most are too tired from either the 12 hour shift they just did or the 40 plus degrees outside to be too concerned. Even asking the dispatchers to explain would be difficult.
The key point here is that he should have understood. The idea that passengers should shut up and enjoy the ride is outdated, condescending, and frankly - egotistical on the part of pilots and management.
By the time they are on the A/C most are too tired from either the 12 hour shift they just did or the 40 plus degrees outside to be too concerned. Even asking the dispatchers to explain would be difficult.
skiddriver, I think you're talking horse cack! Condescending? We're not doing our jobs by telling the SLF everything we're doin gin our normal flight regime? I say 'Normal' because it sounds like the manouevre mentioned was basically a class 1 helipad departure or similar.
Explaining every flight profile and why we do it to the pax would take so long we would never get the flights done.
They are passengers, they expect us to get them from A to B safely, and generally, we do so.
To start explaining over the intercom, 'Ok folks, as you see I am now increasing power, my PNF (pilot not flying to you laymen in the back) is monitoring the instruments/engines etc, and once we're happy, we will climb to 90' in a slightly reversing movement, which, in the worst case scenario, will allow us to keep the landing site in view should an engine fail.
We train for that all the time folks so don't worry. It hasn't happened to us recently so with the best of luck we should be ok. Once we reach our TDP (Take off decision point, again for the uninitiated amongst you lot back there) we'll transition to forward flight, to achieve our Vtoss, which, again, luck on our side, will allow us to climb away in the event of one of the donkeys quitting. Oh an do't ask what Vtoss is as we haven't enough fuel to tell you. Please don't be alarmed if you hear changes in engine noise, rotor rpm etc. this is completely normal but if for some reason it s for reasons beyond our control, we'll be sure to get straight back on the intercom. Once we near our destination, having been in the cruise for an hour or so, you'll no doubt hear further engine load changes. That's just us descending. Don't be alarmed. We can assure you we have check lists up front in the event we may forget anything. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions of us during the flight as we probably have very little else to do. Please enjoy your flight with us here on Mickey Mouse Helicopters.!'
I don't ask the guys in the back what they'll be doing all day once we've dropped them off on a rig. Get a grip. We just do our job,
Explaining every flight profile and why we do it to the pax would take so long we would never get the flights done.
They are passengers, they expect us to get them from A to B safely, and generally, we do so.
To start explaining over the intercom, 'Ok folks, as you see I am now increasing power, my PNF (pilot not flying to you laymen in the back) is monitoring the instruments/engines etc, and once we're happy, we will climb to 90' in a slightly reversing movement, which, in the worst case scenario, will allow us to keep the landing site in view should an engine fail.
We train for that all the time folks so don't worry. It hasn't happened to us recently so with the best of luck we should be ok. Once we reach our TDP (Take off decision point, again for the uninitiated amongst you lot back there) we'll transition to forward flight, to achieve our Vtoss, which, again, luck on our side, will allow us to climb away in the event of one of the donkeys quitting. Oh an do't ask what Vtoss is as we haven't enough fuel to tell you. Please don't be alarmed if you hear changes in engine noise, rotor rpm etc. this is completely normal but if for some reason it s for reasons beyond our control, we'll be sure to get straight back on the intercom. Once we near our destination, having been in the cruise for an hour or so, you'll no doubt hear further engine load changes. That's just us descending. Don't be alarmed. We can assure you we have check lists up front in the event we may forget anything. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions of us during the flight as we probably have very little else to do. Please enjoy your flight with us here on Mickey Mouse Helicopters.!'
I don't ask the guys in the back what they'll be doing all day once we've dropped them off on a rig. Get a grip. We just do our job,
Last edited by helimutt; 3rd Sep 2009 at 07:07. Reason: typo's
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I for one would like to hear the take-off brief from the flight deck the next time I fly plank PA'd down the back as to which take-off profile we were just about to follow and then to explain all of the subsequent actions till brakes on at the other end... or maybe i might consider it excellent value and service if i arrived where and when i wanted to be as anticipated 
Why should rotary passengers expect any different?
Why should rotary passengers expect any different?
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You've misinterpreted my contention and misread my post. It wouldn't do to try and explain the profile on the helideck real time. It should have been done as a focused communication upon introduction of the aircraft and implementation of the different flight profiles, in a fashion much like the example I gave.
We view the passenger as part of the safety equation. If you don't, that's between you and the person who manages your contract. Our pilots are conscientious about explaining non-conformances and do so when they occur. My shop within the O&G company is responsible for passenger education regarding normal operations, for which we draw heavily on our helicopter company for support.
Try reading my post again. Then you'll see it is you who is speaking horse cack (funny phrase).
We view the passenger as part of the safety equation. If you don't, that's between you and the person who manages your contract. Our pilots are conscientious about explaining non-conformances and do so when they occur. My shop within the O&G company is responsible for passenger education regarding normal operations, for which we draw heavily on our helicopter company for support.
Try reading my post again. Then you'll see it is you who is speaking horse cack (funny phrase).
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It wouldn't do to try and explain the profile on the helideck real time. It should have been done as a focused communication upon introduction of the aircraft and implementation of the different flight profiles, in a fashion much like the example I gave.
If we have an issue on start-ups or we make a go-around while on approach, rather than tell them there and then we will tell them why we did it once back on the ground. Same as if the HP is told to go-around by the NHP. No point discussing it there and then, do it on the ground!
There are more important things happening in the cockpit than holding the hands of the passengers. They trust us to do our job. If the company dispatchers want to brief them on the take off profiles that will be used then great, not really my job to tell them that while trying to fly!
I will be more than happy to explain anything when I get back to the heliport.
Just thought horse cack sounded more acceptable than hoss sh!t. I do agree that any manouevre which the passengers might not be used to could be explained to them, possibly after the flight, which we have done and will continue to do so to keep the pax happy, but a normal take off profile, just because it may seem weird to slf, doesn't need explanation.
Some don't take a whole amount of notice of the video briefing they get every day they fly, so why should we start telling them other things? One example, we fly guys offshore every day who generally are day trippers. They know pretty much what to expect during a flight, so why is it that on return to base, even after being briefed not to undo their seatbelts until the rotors have come to a complete stop, do we continue to hear the unbuckling of seatbelts sometimes just as we arrive back on stand? That's after being briefed that the seatbelt sign will go off as we shut down but to keep the belt fastened anyway until rotor stop. We don't tell them it just to hear the sound of our own voice.
I have to say I disagree that on introduction to an aircraft type, the pax have all the profiles explained to them. I'm sure if they were interested they'd probably come on PPRuNe and ask away, or become friendly with Google!
I can't remember ever wondering why I haven't been told the take off profile of a 747/777/737 etc. I just expect the pilots to do what they're 'hopefully' trained to do. If something unusual happens then fine, mention it.
I'll belt up now.
Some don't take a whole amount of notice of the video briefing they get every day they fly, so why should we start telling them other things? One example, we fly guys offshore every day who generally are day trippers. They know pretty much what to expect during a flight, so why is it that on return to base, even after being briefed not to undo their seatbelts until the rotors have come to a complete stop, do we continue to hear the unbuckling of seatbelts sometimes just as we arrive back on stand? That's after being briefed that the seatbelt sign will go off as we shut down but to keep the belt fastened anyway until rotor stop. We don't tell them it just to hear the sound of our own voice.
I have to say I disagree that on introduction to an aircraft type, the pax have all the profiles explained to them. I'm sure if they were interested they'd probably come on PPRuNe and ask away, or become friendly with Google!
I can't remember ever wondering why I haven't been told the take off profile of a 747/777/737 etc. I just expect the pilots to do what they're 'hopefully' trained to do. If something unusual happens then fine, mention it.
I'll belt up now.
Oh I do apologise, I never added a smiley right there to show I was being sarcastic.
Sorry about that.
So come on then FNW, your views please on explaining every profile you do to the passengers. We fly similar types I believe.
FNW, I used to be conceited, but now i'm absolutely perfect.
(that's supposed to be an attempt at light hearted humour by the way)
Sorry about that.
So come on then FNW, your views please on explaining every profile you do to the passengers. We fly similar types I believe.
FNW, I used to be conceited, but now i'm absolutely perfect.
(that's supposed to be an attempt at light hearted humour by the way)
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I'll try one more time. This isn't something that should be explained by the pilot as he conducts a maneuver, or even during the pre-takeoff brief. When a significant change is made in operations, one part of the management of change should be to explain the differences to the customers / passengers. The company who contracts for the helicopter service has this duty in the end. They can use the helicopter company to fill in the technical details.
How the message is delivered would vary from situation to situation, and how you embed it as a durable message and take into account short service employees takes some thought. However, having someone stewing in the back of the aircraft flight after flight wondering what the heck the guys up front are doing does no one any good, and if nothing else degrades the confidence the passengers should have in their pilots and the reputation of the helicopter company to boot. Which is why it would be a good idea for pilots and company management to at least think about this, and bring it up with the contracting company if they don't have the in-house expertise to think about it first.
Passengers are a captive audience at heliports. A short brief from the dispatcher and a few posters go a long way to engender understanding. I've heard that Gulf Helicopters is a good company though I have no firsthand experience with them. Are they being well served having their customers questioning the safety of their operation unanswered, particularly when the answer is that the maneuver being flown actually makes the operation safer?
How the message is delivered would vary from situation to situation, and how you embed it as a durable message and take into account short service employees takes some thought. However, having someone stewing in the back of the aircraft flight after flight wondering what the heck the guys up front are doing does no one any good, and if nothing else degrades the confidence the passengers should have in their pilots and the reputation of the helicopter company to boot. Which is why it would be a good idea for pilots and company management to at least think about this, and bring it up with the contracting company if they don't have the in-house expertise to think about it first.
Passengers are a captive audience at heliports. A short brief from the dispatcher and a few posters go a long way to engender understanding. I've heard that Gulf Helicopters is a good company though I have no firsthand experience with them. Are they being well served having their customers questioning the safety of their operation unanswered, particularly when the answer is that the maneuver being flown actually makes the operation safer?
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However, having someone stewing in the back of the aircraft flight after flight wondering what the heck the guys up front are doing does no one any good, and if nothing else degrades the confidence the passengers should have in their pilots and the reputation of the helicopter company to boot.
Their English isn't the best. They have been doing these flights to and from the rigs for many years. They hop in and we fly them out. Even if the management had explained that the 412 has a different profile than the 139 they won't care. They want to get to work and earn that shiny stuff!
Airwave45 said in a previous thread that the GHC pilots fly to his liking! I don't think he being critical only making a point about the take off. He can always ask why it seems so different!
Passengers are a captive audience at heliports. A short brief from the dispatcher and a few posters go a long way to engender understanding. I've heard that Gulf Helicopters is a good company though I have no firsthand experience with them. Are they being well served having their customers questioning the safety of their operation unanswered, particularly when the answer is that the maneuver being flown actually makes the operation safer?
Gulf is a good company IMHO
Airwave45 never mention anything about safety
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I think some of you have missed the point that SKIIDRIVER is making.
Most of the PAX are very familiar with the CLAS 2- With Exposure Take-off profile. I think what he means if they are going to be subjected to something substantially different (and a CAT A Helipad Profile is) it would benefit all if an explanations was given.
I see on the other thread a GH man has described their profiles and although he does not state so, they sound very similar to Class 2 with Exposure.
Its common sense at the end of the day, if we are about to do something strange (or already have done so) letting them know why!!! might save us a trip to the Chief Pilot with a book down our pants when the PAX have filled theirs, and bleated to their managers about it.
Most of the PAX are very familiar with the CLAS 2- With Exposure Take-off profile. I think what he means if they are going to be subjected to something substantially different (and a CAT A Helipad Profile is) it would benefit all if an explanations was given.
I see on the other thread a GH man has described their profiles and although he does not state so, they sound very similar to Class 2 with Exposure.
Its common sense at the end of the day, if we are about to do something strange (or already have done so) letting them know why!!! might save us a trip to the Chief Pilot with a book down our pants when the PAX have filled theirs, and bleated to their managers about it.
Skiddriver,
Argueing with a pilot is a lot like wrestling with a pig,
Sooner or later you realize that they are enjoying themselves.
I understood what you were trying to say, and agree, forewarning the cattle would no doubt prevent alot of concern with most of them, with the time and place being before the flight, in the holding pen.
Argueing with a pilot is a lot like wrestling with a pig,
Sooner or later you realize that they are enjoying themselves.
I understood what you were trying to say, and agree, forewarning the cattle would no doubt prevent alot of concern with most of them, with the time and place being before the flight, in the holding pen.
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Hey, I resemble that remark!
Actually, I know (or hope) it's all in good fun. I can see that there is a variety of opinion on the importance of having informed and empowered passengers, but we think it's important from a safety and reputational perspective. If other folks disagree that's their lookout, unless they want to fly on my contract. Then that is another kettle of fish.
Actually, I know (or hope) it's all in good fun. I can see that there is a variety of opinion on the importance of having informed and empowered passengers, but we think it's important from a safety and reputational perspective. If other folks disagree that's their lookout, unless they want to fly on my contract. Then that is another kettle of fish.
skiddriver, the replies you may get on a forum, as i'm sure you know, are sometimes added to increase debate. They aren't a personal attack on the initial poster. Well, not always. 
At our company only recently, we have had reason to inform the pax of things which occur, which are out of the ordinary during the flight. Usually if it happens during the flight, once we arrive at destination, the commander will go and talk to the HLO or whoever, and explain the situation. This saves no end of problems from the company the next day, as our pax can often go and complain to their bosses and we then get a visit from the CP.
I can't ever remember briefing the pax about something whch is about to happen, especially about a type of departure profile.
There aren't that many different profiles we can fly and surely these guys in the back have seen pretty much all of them.
As I said, most questions can be answered by reading books or just internet.
At our company only recently, we have had reason to inform the pax of things which occur, which are out of the ordinary during the flight. Usually if it happens during the flight, once we arrive at destination, the commander will go and talk to the HLO or whoever, and explain the situation. This saves no end of problems from the company the next day, as our pax can often go and complain to their bosses and we then get a visit from the CP.
I can't ever remember briefing the pax about something whch is about to happen, especially about a type of departure profile.
There aren't that many different profiles we can fly and surely these guys in the back have seen pretty much all of them.
As I said, most questions can be answered by reading books or just internet.
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Sadly, I agree with almost everyones POV on this thread so far.
Yes it is my job to sit in the back and watch in awe as the highly trained chap or chapette in the front, majestically and skilfully navigates the line back to whichever part of paradise we happen to be in this week..(for non brits, read . . . irony / sarcasm)
Except, I've been doing this a very long time and have a vested interest, I realise that due to your position you usually get to arrive at the scene of the accident before me (although, not always) and are just as reluctant as I to get there at all.
I'm not in any way shape or form nervous SLF, but I did have the misfortune to be prepping a job on a vessel in peterhead many moons ago when we were spot hired to go find a Chinook which had attempted to eat itself, sitting in the ROV shack watching the pictures of the damage was most unpleasant (and put me off prawns for weeks)
Have seen more than one helicopter delivered back to Aberdeen on the back of a DSV (Dive support Vessel), have lost friends to heli accidents (one recently, and we went to school together as nippers)
Waaaay back in the day, I used to shuttle to / from work every day. 30 mins to work, 30 mins back, I'd make a point of getting in the back of the (I think, but been wrong before 212) and watch the world go by. 16 hours in a helicopter every 2 weeks, lovely days. Do remember the reg as it made me laugh G-BALZ,
Currently on contract in the sandpit, being taken to / from work by the guys n gals of GH, who (from the back of the bus) seem to fly smoothly.
nice long, gently decellerating finals, no feeling of being about to loose my fillings as the heli shudders like a thing possesed as we blooter down from 120kts -0 in about 500m from 1500' above the deck like happens elsewhere, occasionally. (yeah yeah yeah, cat whatever approach, in the manual, perfectly safe . . . . from the back as you watch the roof panels try to leave the aircraft, it may wel be safe but it sure as poop isn't pleasant.)
I really am not sitting here behind my computer as some pompous little oik saying "I think you should fly (insert profile of choice here) as they did it this way somewhere else and it lets me sleep for another 2 mins each flight" I put the reference into the 139 boom thread as the reek spoots (exhaust outlets) point straight up and a reversing departure from the helideck (yes the 139 does hang arse down but I can tell it's a reversing departure as; 1) there are windows in the back and 2) by the time we are 80-100' above the helideck the bow leg which was behind us on the helideck is now forward of us . . .) the concern(s) I had were based on the heat from those reek spoots having to go somewhere (unlike on a puma with sideways facing outlets this would be washed down the side of the aircraft, on the 139 the hot gas will go over the boom ) and neither driver is looking back as we leave (i.e. in the direction of travel)
I think you are comprehensively wasting your time explaining flight profiles to pax; I would be interested, but I am a weirdo and not at all representative of normal pax (I fly gliders, for fun) to 99.9% of pax it's pretty close to magic and they have no concept of nor are they interested in finding out about how / why the aircraft works.
I have been on a one man, doomed to failure mission to try to get the rest of the SLF to use the 4 point harnesses in the back of the 139's corectly. it's not gonna happen, any conceivable way of mis fitting a harness I have seen in the last 6 months, guys taking the lap strap over a shoulder (like they would in a car) and staring blankly at the shoulder straps which are left. people regularly trying to get the ends of the straps into a buckle facing in towards them, lap straps left loose and shoulder straps tightened to the max, putting the buckle neatly between their nipples, I have verbally briefed guys offshore that if they release the buckles before the signs go off in town, I will punch them inside the terminal, every face smiles, they nod, as soon as the wheels touch . . . . . straps flying everywhere (and I did punch them)
The general assertion that pax are stupid individuals, is, sadly, correct. I base this on the demonstrated fact that fitting a four pont harness is beyond them (and this is 2 mins after they have watched a video on how to do it)
Some of us are interested, some of us are a PITA, but none of us are in the back for the glory or the medals, we are just going to work.
I think the flight safety brief given to pax should _stress_ the importance of keeping the harness bucked 'till you signal us to take them off.
And in the most simplistic terms possible, explain that there are occasions after the wheels have touched where you will need to reposition the aircraft in a positive manner.
on a side note to the above point on harnesses, wherever I have been in the world, you are _all_ rubbish at switching on and off the seatbelt signs.
(not the main reason pax throw off the belts a.s.a.p. but as a rule of thumb, we do routinely ignore the seatbelt signs as you don't pay any attention to them either) general assertion, not aimed at anyone in particular.
I think Gulf Heli is a good company too. the current 139 issue is just down to luck, it had to happen somewhere.
Yes it is my job to sit in the back and watch in awe as the highly trained chap or chapette in the front, majestically and skilfully navigates the line back to whichever part of paradise we happen to be in this week..(for non brits, read . . . irony / sarcasm)
Except, I've been doing this a very long time and have a vested interest, I realise that due to your position you usually get to arrive at the scene of the accident before me (although, not always) and are just as reluctant as I to get there at all.
I'm not in any way shape or form nervous SLF, but I did have the misfortune to be prepping a job on a vessel in peterhead many moons ago when we were spot hired to go find a Chinook which had attempted to eat itself, sitting in the ROV shack watching the pictures of the damage was most unpleasant (and put me off prawns for weeks)
Have seen more than one helicopter delivered back to Aberdeen on the back of a DSV (Dive support Vessel), have lost friends to heli accidents (one recently, and we went to school together as nippers)
Waaaay back in the day, I used to shuttle to / from work every day. 30 mins to work, 30 mins back, I'd make a point of getting in the back of the (I think, but been wrong before 212) and watch the world go by. 16 hours in a helicopter every 2 weeks, lovely days. Do remember the reg as it made me laugh G-BALZ,
Currently on contract in the sandpit, being taken to / from work by the guys n gals of GH, who (from the back of the bus) seem to fly smoothly.
nice long, gently decellerating finals, no feeling of being about to loose my fillings as the heli shudders like a thing possesed as we blooter down from 120kts -0 in about 500m from 1500' above the deck like happens elsewhere, occasionally. (yeah yeah yeah, cat whatever approach, in the manual, perfectly safe . . . . from the back as you watch the roof panels try to leave the aircraft, it may wel be safe but it sure as poop isn't pleasant.)
I really am not sitting here behind my computer as some pompous little oik saying "I think you should fly (insert profile of choice here) as they did it this way somewhere else and it lets me sleep for another 2 mins each flight" I put the reference into the 139 boom thread as the reek spoots (exhaust outlets) point straight up and a reversing departure from the helideck (yes the 139 does hang arse down but I can tell it's a reversing departure as; 1) there are windows in the back and 2) by the time we are 80-100' above the helideck the bow leg which was behind us on the helideck is now forward of us . . .) the concern(s) I had were based on the heat from those reek spoots having to go somewhere (unlike on a puma with sideways facing outlets this would be washed down the side of the aircraft, on the 139 the hot gas will go over the boom ) and neither driver is looking back as we leave (i.e. in the direction of travel)
I think you are comprehensively wasting your time explaining flight profiles to pax; I would be interested, but I am a weirdo and not at all representative of normal pax (I fly gliders, for fun) to 99.9% of pax it's pretty close to magic and they have no concept of nor are they interested in finding out about how / why the aircraft works.
I have been on a one man, doomed to failure mission to try to get the rest of the SLF to use the 4 point harnesses in the back of the 139's corectly. it's not gonna happen, any conceivable way of mis fitting a harness I have seen in the last 6 months, guys taking the lap strap over a shoulder (like they would in a car) and staring blankly at the shoulder straps which are left. people regularly trying to get the ends of the straps into a buckle facing in towards them, lap straps left loose and shoulder straps tightened to the max, putting the buckle neatly between their nipples, I have verbally briefed guys offshore that if they release the buckles before the signs go off in town, I will punch them inside the terminal, every face smiles, they nod, as soon as the wheels touch . . . . . straps flying everywhere (and I did punch them)
The general assertion that pax are stupid individuals, is, sadly, correct. I base this on the demonstrated fact that fitting a four pont harness is beyond them (and this is 2 mins after they have watched a video on how to do it
)Some of us are interested, some of us are a PITA, but none of us are in the back for the glory or the medals, we are just going to work.
I think the flight safety brief given to pax should _stress_ the importance of keeping the harness bucked 'till you signal us to take them off.
And in the most simplistic terms possible, explain that there are occasions after the wheels have touched where you will need to reposition the aircraft in a positive manner.
on a side note to the above point on harnesses, wherever I have been in the world, you are _all_ rubbish at switching on and off the seatbelt signs.
(not the main reason pax throw off the belts a.s.a.p. but as a rule of thumb, we do routinely ignore the seatbelt signs as you don't pay any attention to them either) general assertion, not aimed at anyone in particular.
I think Gulf Heli is a good company too. the current 139 issue is just down to luck, it had to happen somewhere.
Please forgive me if i'm wrong, but regarding seatbelts, if we are shutting down back at base, with pax in the back, then we always ask them to keep seatbelts fastened until the rotors come to a comlplete stop. The reason for this is that, I believe, that once the engines run down and the AC gen etc go offline, the signs in the back are no longer illuminated. Crazy set up I think, but that is how I think the pax assume its ok to start unbuckling the belts before rotor stop.
I'm positive if any pax have any questions on profiles, or just helicopters in general, if they stop any of the pilots wandering around the place, we'd all be more than happy to explain things and answer any questions if we can. Granted some of us more than others, but then again, most pilots at our base are a great deal more knowledgable than myself when it comes to offshore flying.
I keep hearing the phrase 'glorified bus drivers' being used!
I'm positive if any pax have any questions on profiles, or just helicopters in general, if they stop any of the pilots wandering around the place, we'd all be more than happy to explain things and answer any questions if we can. Granted some of us more than others, but then again, most pilots at our base are a great deal more knowledgable than myself when it comes to offshore flying.
I keep hearing the phrase 'glorified bus drivers' being used!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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AIRWAVE - thanks for your post its nice to get a persepctive from the customer for a change. Yes I think I am pretty rubbish at managing the seat belt signs and while I would not condone unbuckling before the light goes out or the crew say so, I think in reality the PAX get used to the fact that we have arrived on a spot, same as normal, rotors winding down, same as normal, and they switch off and start thinking of the beer and the women!!!
Is this a massive problem...............well probably not as ground resonance seems to have been confined to lore with the instigation of IHUMS and fancy tracking and balancing kit. In my 25 years of "Bus Driving" I have not experienced, nor heard of, any ground resonance occuring. Anyone out there who has??
I am not sure the PAX are any dafter than us, for instance, I recall not so long ago pulling a PAX to one side before embarkation to point out that his Lifejacket Stowel was twisted, helped him get sorted, afterwhich he returned the favour, as mine was too and I had been flying like that for 4 hours.
Murphys law says if it can go wrong, eventually it will so keep up the good work and try not to hit anyone bigger than you!!!
Is this a massive problem...............well probably not as ground resonance seems to have been confined to lore with the instigation of IHUMS and fancy tracking and balancing kit. In my 25 years of "Bus Driving" I have not experienced, nor heard of, any ground resonance occuring. Anyone out there who has??
I am not sure the PAX are any dafter than us, for instance, I recall not so long ago pulling a PAX to one side before embarkation to point out that his Lifejacket Stowel was twisted, helped him get sorted, afterwhich he returned the favour, as mine was too and I had been flying like that for 4 hours.
Murphys law says if it can go wrong, eventually it will so keep up the good work and try not to hit anyone bigger than you!!!
Join Date: Feb 2009
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re the "glorified bus driver" comment,
it will almost certainly be mentioned to you if you work around Aberfreeze.
It comes from the oilfield / Scottish way of not being seen to take people too seriously lest they start to believe it themselves.
You are held in high esteem by the bears (who would probably rather cut off a finger than let on in front of you that they think that way) who will /do listen to you.
I really miss the old pre flight brief given by whoever wasn't flying back in the day, we used to listen intently to that one (just on the off chance you would screw it up and we could extract the michael)
it will almost certainly be mentioned to you if you work around Aberfreeze.
It comes from the oilfield / Scottish way of not being seen to take people too seriously lest they start to believe it themselves.
You are held in high esteem by the bears (who would probably rather cut off a finger than let on in front of you that they think that way) who will /do listen to you.
I really miss the old pre flight brief given by whoever wasn't flying back in the day, we used to listen intently to that one (just on the off chance you would screw it up and we could extract the michael)