Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
Well... having weighed-up the evidence (on-line) and surveyed the damage (in the Brum Evening Post) I can state that its quite obvious that Al Kaieda wasn't the guy who did this - so Security at the airport is therefore absolutely perfect! No need to change anything at all!
- Ain't you got no insurance?
- Ain't you got no insurance?
SASless
Pictures here of the hole cut in the fence...
Express&Star
Midlands TV news reports witness seeing felons departing on motorbike...
N
Just why is it they think it was arson?
Signs of accelerant?
Evidence of suspects seen toting a Flimsy of Petrol and smoking a fine Cuban Cigar?
Someone drop a cigarette lighter with his name on it?
Signs of accelerant?
Evidence of suspects seen toting a Flimsy of Petrol and smoking a fine Cuban Cigar?
Someone drop a cigarette lighter with his name on it?
Express&Star
Midlands TV news reports witness seeing felons departing on motorbike...
N
Probably a short cut to the tea and stickies!
Is that gang grafitti on the sign over the hole in the fence?
Is that gang grafitti on the sign over the hole in the fence?
Thread Starter
Any direct services in the 135 that aren't disconnected by the Batt switch? (for example; a cockpit clock.)
Incapable of protecting their own aircraft! Utterly pathetic!
Makes one wonder why your ordinary street thug or second story man would would want to poke the Plod in the eye like this?
For that matter, a Plod could have been stationed there all night for years for what this will cost.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Hunt n Hound summed it up, pointless debate about security and damage is best left out of it unil all the facts are known.
Sad day for all Air Operations Units accross the UK as this is supposed to be a secure airfield in the 2nd city of the UK with pax figures of about10 million.....I think everyone will be taking aclose look at security levels soon!
Sad day for all Air Operations Units accross the UK as this is supposed to be a secure airfield in the 2nd city of the UK with pax figures of about10 million.....I think everyone will be taking aclose look at security levels soon!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
paarmo
May be paarmo was right after all. We do need civies so they can chase after the offenders who commit crimes like this....
SASless come on then lets here you bright ideas..... read previous posts
SASless come on then lets here you bright ideas..... read previous posts
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 'oop North
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"It is understood that a review of security has been launched at the site, which is part of Birmingham International Airport, although all an airport spokesman would say was that they were confident it met all necessary security guidelines"
Ah so the security was fine as it was "all within the guidelines". Now, where have we heard that before.....
Ah so the security was fine as it was "all within the guidelines". Now, where have we heard that before.....
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ill-informed speculation
I completely agree with Huntnhound! However I take exception to the comment from heli-cal, given that the unit concerned is based at an International Airport one might have assumed a degree of security was implicite. I assume heli-cal has some experience of aviation locations and can testify to the fact that most (Heathrow excepted but even they have had an incursion by demonstartors) are impossible to secure from unauthorised ingress, unless a limitless security budget is available.
In todays atmosphere of cost cutting and budget restrictions it is difficult to justify almost any extra expenditure on Air Support. To suggest that the West Midlands Police were incabable of protecting their own aircraft whilst it was parked at Birmingham International Airport shows a distinct lack of knowledge and understanding of Air Support and that heli-cal's comment was a worthless "cheap-shot".
Lets have some reasoned debate - not more ill-informed speculation.
Mal
In todays atmosphere of cost cutting and budget restrictions it is difficult to justify almost any extra expenditure on Air Support. To suggest that the West Midlands Police were incabable of protecting their own aircraft whilst it was parked at Birmingham International Airport shows a distinct lack of knowledge and understanding of Air Support and that heli-cal's comment was a worthless "cheap-shot".
Lets have some reasoned debate - not more ill-informed speculation.
Mal
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: lancashire
Age: 53
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not the first time, similar incident take place all the time. Just recently, high powered car recover from overnight cash point attack by myself, offenders got away and then car jacked innocent member of the public. I was right on getaway car. (Audi S8 can outrun Transit van and as soon as they got a lead up they dumped it.)
Car was taken to secure contractors compound and placed in a warehouse, prior to the car being examined by csi. Next day offenders then followed the contractor, attacked his vehicle and fired the getaway car.
When youre dealing with well organized and motivated individuals not the normal day to dross thing like this happen. Only this time it just a bit more expensive.
Car was taken to secure contractors compound and placed in a warehouse, prior to the car being examined by csi. Next day offenders then followed the contractor, attacked his vehicle and fired the getaway car.
When youre dealing with well organized and motivated individuals not the normal day to dross thing like this happen. Only this time it just a bit more expensive.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Warwick
Age: 42
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I completely agree with Huntnhound! However I take exception to the comment from heli-cal, given that the unit concerned is based at an International Airport one might have assumed a degree of security was implicite.
Who are ultimately responsible for the prevention of crime and disorder in the area covering BHX? WMP. The fact that it is an airport does not absolve them from their responsibility to prevent crime and disorder, if anything they should be more proactive around airfields, especially big ones.
In many ways this would be much more forgivable if it were a smaller airfield in a smaller police force... Coventry for instance, which is in Warwickshire (the smallest police force in the country outside City of London). But WMP is the 3rd biggest force (only the Met and PSNI are bigger), policing our country's second city and responsible for a major intl airport - in fact on most recent figures BHX was the 2nd biggest airport outside London.
People just expect better, and their "playing the victim" in it is ever so slightly galling. Of course, nobody expects any police force to be able to prevent or detect all crimes, that's just not reasonable; but if they can't look after their own helicopter it really doesn't bode well for the rest of us does it? At best its embarrassing, at worst its incompetent. I think it is probably somewhere between the two!
In todays atmosphere of cost cutting and budget restrictions it is difficult to justify almost any extra expenditure on Air Support.
To suggest that the West Midlands Police were incabable of protecting their own aircraft whilst it was parked at Birmingham International Airport shows a distinct lack of knowledge and understanding of Air Support and that heli-cal's comment was a worthless "cheap-shot".
Now, my little rant about WMP over - this is an absolute tragedy for us as pilots; and I'm sure that other ASU's will review their security in light of it. I shall miss seeing G-WMAO over work (I work very near BHX); and I hope that Sid & Co find a new ride soon!
As a question, was it commercially insured or crown indemnity does anyone know?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
HeliCraig,
Tell you what, you protect your ipod as best you can and I will wait for my opportunity to take it from you!
SS
Tell you what, you protect your ipod as best you can and I will wait for my opportunity to take it from you!
SS
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Warwick
Age: 42
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SS: I totally concede, and did in my original post, that it isn't possible to prevent all crimes all the time, but I think most members of the public will be shocked & disappointed that something so valuable was apparently so easily destroyed. I believe people expect better of a large police force, thats all.
It certainly wasn't intended as any criticism of any one employee / officer of WMP as I am sure they (you) all go out to do the very level best they can with the tools they are given - it was more aimed at the system / politics that have resulted in this.
(Oh, and if you're now over the road with nothing to do pop over and I'll get you a bacon sarnie!)
It certainly wasn't intended as any criticism of any one employee / officer of WMP as I am sure they (you) all go out to do the very level best they can with the tools they are given - it was more aimed at the system / politics that have resulted in this.
(Oh, and if you're now over the road with nothing to do pop over and I'll get you a bacon sarnie!)
Last edited by HeliCraig; 9th Jun 2009 at 11:07.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Helicraig, do you really think it was easily destroyed?
Looking forward to the sarnie, you're on!
Looking forward to the sarnie, you're on!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why do some people assume that when a Police A/C is going to be attacked that the perpetrators will publish their itinery ? !!!
A petrol bomb thrown at the aircraft is pretty much a done deal !!
Security at most airports,isn't all that people seem to think.
There aren't roving armed patrols trip wires and the like.Some aircraft are vulnerable from public access points, so no security breech would even be required!
A petrol bomb thrown at the aircraft is pretty much a done deal !!
Security at most airports,isn't all that people seem to think.
There aren't roving armed patrols trip wires and the like.Some aircraft are vulnerable from public access points, so no security breech would even be required!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think most members of the public will be shocked & disappointed that something so valuable was apparently so easily destroyed. I believe people expect better of a large police force, thats all.
So if a 24hr operation air support unit helicopter parked in the grounds of an international airport, with a fence, armed police and a roving patrol. With no idea that it was going to happen. How on earth can you plan for what happend.
I think its a pretty good indication that air support prevents crime and catches criminals if they feel the need to destroy a chopper.
Just asking a simple question, why wasn't the aircraft tucked away in a hangar o'night?
I guess for all those people who want to moan that it was not protected then look at sids comment. You protect your car, or house, or mobile phone, wallet, forever. I won't tell you when I gonna steal it. But i bet you I could.....with ease. ( oh and i would'nt use a motorbike if that helps)
Budgie,
If you are a 24 hour operation whose effectiveness depends on quick reaction times then your aircraft does not go into a hangar. This is especially true at WMids who don't have one.
If you are a 24 hour operation whose effectiveness depends on quick reaction times then your aircraft does not go into a hangar. This is especially true at WMids who don't have one.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: burnham
Age: 52
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just asking a simple question, why wasn't the aircraft tucked away in a hangar o'night?
The reason being the aircraft flys 24hrs. Vital minutes would be lost if the crew had to take the aircraft out of the hangar each time
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Warwick
Age: 42
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok Budgie, I'll bite, but only a little!!
Which makes it entirely irrelevant. There is no suggestion that WMP knew this was coming at all - and I am sure if they did it would be a totally different outcome.
In the same way you plan for any other unexpected incidence. You take worst case and plan around it. However, I have worked in a clothes warehouse with, by the looks of it, a better fence. An alarm would go if it was cut, touched or inteferred with. That was for a warehouse full of jeans... and I saw it at work one night, and Warwickshire police felt a few collars as a result. Surely BHX should have similar?
Absolutely, these are determined people and it may have been impossible to stop them. My point was that the general public expect the police to be the able to protect at least their own assets.... in hind sight this may be an unrealistic expectation.
You will never stop a really determined criminal, not with all the deterrents in the world, it just appears on the face of it to have been a little to easy. I hope, as Sid elludes to, it wasn't. WMP need to salvage the best of this situation and make sure the criminals are brought to justice and tought charges are brought!
Try telling that to the friends and family of the people killed in the twin towers ... <clip> they knew it was coming and they still managed to destroy it
So if a 24hr operation air support unit helicopter parked in the grounds of an international airport, with a fence, armed police and a roving patrol. With no idea that it was going to happen. How on earth can you plan for what happend.
I guess for all those people who want to moan that it was not protected then look at sids comment. You protect your car, or house, or mobile phone, wallet, forever. I won't tell you when I gonna steal it. But i bet you I could.....with ease. ( oh and i would'nt use a motorbike if that helps)
You will never stop a really determined criminal, not with all the deterrents in the world, it just appears on the face of it to have been a little to easy. I hope, as Sid elludes to, it wasn't. WMP need to salvage the best of this situation and make sure the criminals are brought to justice and tought charges are brought!