Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
Red On, Green On
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In a way the outcome is OK - it's insured (OK, so the insurers take a hit, which puts up premiums), but imagine if the helicopter had been got at by someone who knew what to do to make it unsafe, but perhaps not visible on a walk-round......
That's why it needs to be properly secured.
That's why it needs to be properly secured.
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Helicraig,
After a wealth of evidence has bee obtained, sufficient to make an arrest...you are right. Charges should be brought on those responsible. So a charge of Arson....
In the Crown Court the maximum sentence is 10 years in prison or an unlimited fine and a compensation order equivalent to the amount of the damage
Is this case of such a degree that a judge will give the maximum setence?I think not. Will a judge order a scally to pay back money he hasnt got and never will have? Nope.
So the base line with any crime is that the punishments are so weak and pathetic the fear of being caught is such a small risk compared to material gains when these individuals steal from others.
Hnh
After a wealth of evidence has bee obtained, sufficient to make an arrest...you are right. Charges should be brought on those responsible. So a charge of Arson....
In the Crown Court the maximum sentence is 10 years in prison or an unlimited fine and a compensation order equivalent to the amount of the damage
Is this case of such a degree that a judge will give the maximum setence?I think not. Will a judge order a scally to pay back money he hasnt got and never will have? Nope.
So the base line with any crime is that the punishments are so weak and pathetic the fear of being caught is such a small risk compared to material gains when these individuals steal from others.
Hnh
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And that is totally my point. Yes the loss of a hull on the ground is a crying shame, especially a newish one which one of "us" flys. But as I mentioned in my post.. there is an ATR72 in the background of some of the pics, and a FlyBe E195 not much further back.
This would not have been good!!
Out of interest, and I did ask before, does anyone know if it was commercially insured, or crown?
This would not have been good!!
Out of interest, and I did ask before, does anyone know if it was commercially insured, or crown?
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HnH... is it that confidential? Would have thought I / the public could find out under FoI in due course...
.. I was only interested to settle a debate at work that's all. The debate started because in the past I have driven a Royal Mail vehicle who at the time self / crown insure.
If its not totally commercially confident, would appreciate a PM. Ta.
.. I was only interested to settle a debate at work that's all. The debate started because in the past I have driven a Royal Mail vehicle who at the time self / crown insure.
If its not totally commercially confident, would appreciate a PM. Ta.
The reason being the aircraft flys 24hrs. Vital minutes would be lost if the crew had to take the aircraft out of the hangar each time
Just how far away are they from the aircraft?
My experience working an "instant" response task guarding nukes put great emphasis upon protecting the aircraft as it was considered important to the task.
That said it was still a vulnerable target. Just not to a simple cut the wire and wander over with a firebomb.
We had a ten foot fence with razor wire surrounding the heliport, two surviellance cameras aimed at the aircraft that was monitored locally and at the command center, and also a squad of shaved apes (passengers) with all manner of automatic weapons in the hut adjacent to the pad. Add in the motion sensors and very bright lights surrounding the area and it was not an easy target.
We worried about dedicated and well trained and armed oppos who might decide to take out the aircraft with a Barrett .50 Cal or a few RPG's but not from close up with something like a can of petrol.
We lived three rotor disc's away from the aircraft....24 hours at a time while the Gun Types worked twelve hour shifts. Pilots got our heads down each shift but the Guns stayed awake and manned our office if we took a kip. The aircraft always had "eyes" looking at it.
Sasless,
The aircraft and crew are some distance apart. Being an International Airport the aircraft was on the dispersal and the crew are stuck in a building that won't generate much revenue for the airport.
From memory it was a good 3 minute walk and not in direct line of sight of the office.
As an aside, what is it with Police Air Support that causes some people to feel the need to talk complete b**locks?
FNW
The aircraft and crew are some distance apart. Being an International Airport the aircraft was on the dispersal and the crew are stuck in a building that won't generate much revenue for the airport.
From memory it was a good 3 minute walk and not in direct line of sight of the office.
As an aside, what is it with Police Air Support that causes some people to feel the need to talk complete b**locks?
FNW
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re the BBC page and the lasor attack incident
"In March, a laser light was shone at the helicopter's cockpit as it flew over Birmingham.
A 17-year-old admitted in court to endangering the aircraft with the laser and he was given a 12-month referral order. "
Firstly the little S
T should have been shot....but as we don't all want to be treated like brazilian electricians..... why was he not 'done' under the Air Navigation Order?
"In March, a laser light was shone at the helicopter's cockpit as it flew over Birmingham.
A 17-year-old admitted in court to endangering the aircraft with the laser and he was given a 12-month referral order. "
Firstly the little S
T should have been shot....but as we don't all want to be treated like brazilian electricians..... why was he not 'done' under the Air Navigation Order?
Last edited by howflytrg; 9th Jun 2009 at 14:29. Reason: character assasination
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I think that if the hangar was available it would have made no difference even if the aircraft was inside, as already said they will go to extreme lengths to complete their task, yes the airport had security by private and police with very regular patrols, however the surface area is huge and to man every vunerable point would take huge numbers, I guess if that was done the freedom to the people folk would be rightfully rage we are turning into a police state, so you strike the best balance you can and work with the best intel you have. Sadly these things happen they only have to get lucky once we all to stay safe, have to be lucky all the time...
Re insurance I think you can rest assured it wont be coming out of the public purse unlike buildings and vehicles which the police cover costs of this would have had to be properly insured for the flying it does etc.
So go buy a huge dog burglar alarm and I bet you someone will get in...its a fact of life.
HuntnHound brought up a good point what will scally get when caught, my guess 7 years which he will do 3 or so if your lucky, oh and nothing back to the community who have suffered the loss!
Re insurance I think you can rest assured it wont be coming out of the public purse unlike buildings and vehicles which the police cover costs of this would have had to be properly insured for the flying it does etc.
So go buy a huge dog burglar alarm and I bet you someone will get in...its a fact of life.
HuntnHound brought up a good point what will scally get when caught, my guess 7 years which he will do 3 or so if your lucky, oh and nothing back to the community who have suffered the loss!
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Volrider is correct.
The real issue here is security at Birmingham international Airport...or rather the lack of it. The Airport would probably argue that the meet the laid down requirements for an airport of this size. But it is incredible that scally with a pair of £1.50p pliers from B and Q, can breach the perimeter fence with such ease. Why are there no cameras on each fence line? Why no infrared night cameras? WHY IS THERE NO SECOND FENCE? The more i think about it the more it beggars belief.
Hnh
The real issue here is security at Birmingham international Airport...or rather the lack of it. The Airport would probably argue that the meet the laid down requirements for an airport of this size. But it is incredible that scally with a pair of £1.50p pliers from B and Q, can breach the perimeter fence with such ease. Why are there no cameras on each fence line? Why no infrared night cameras? WHY IS THERE NO SECOND FENCE? The more i think about it the more it beggars belief.
Hnh
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Not only that HnH, but a total breakdown of society.
When people are prepared to put their life at risk to fire bomb a Police Helicopter, (they must have known what their actions would look like if they were seen by a firearms police officer), others who throw bricks at Air Ambulances, assault Ambulance crews and Fire fighters, the total anarchy going on out there, also beggars belief.
On a positive note, it just goes to show what a good job the helicopter does!
When people are prepared to put their life at risk to fire bomb a Police Helicopter, (they must have known what their actions would look like if they were seen by a firearms police officer), others who throw bricks at Air Ambulances, assault Ambulance crews and Fire fighters, the total anarchy going on out there, also beggars belief.
On a positive note, it just goes to show what a good job the helicopter does!
Thread Starter
So, what you going to do for the next year or so, Sid? Or is your old one still down at PAS? On second thoughts, the first question is probably still valid. 
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The real issue here is security at Birmingham international Airport...or rather the lack of it.
Incapable of protecting their own aircraft!
Utterly pathetic!
Utterly pathetic!
Given the assumption that the arsonist was a 'scally', and not a professional criminal or a person with terrorist intent, why did the security assessment for this asset, at this location, not address the obvious lack of actual security?
Gosh, did I offend delicate sensibilities by stating what is the actual fact of the matter?
Perhaps the advice contained within the crime prevention leaflets advising responsible care of valuable property should have been followed more attentively!
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When you operate at a major international airport, you pay premium dough to use the 'facilities'. One of those facilities is security, this offsets the hassle of getting in and out at busy times of the day. The unit would not be allowed to have extra ad-hoc policemen wandering around the helipad. They would have expected a secure environment. Do not muddle the fact that the aircraft was a police one, they are a customer just like BA/BMI/Easy/Ryanair. BA crews don't guard their own aircraft, they use the airport people!!! Our security is provided by the airfield we operate on and it is certainly not our job to patrol the area, THEY get paid to do that. We have our own 'extra' gizmos to cover the immediate area of the unit, but other than sitting in the aircraft for 12 hours straight, we, like others are vunerable. One unit near us has a purpose built electrified fortress that is excellent for the job, not perfect, but nearly so. Maybe that, plus a dedicated security man 24/7 will solve the problem at other units. So Mr Council Tax payer, this needs to be funded from somewhere, cough up £??? on next years bill. That will go down well........
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HeliCal
Nice statement.
So when I come round your house in the middle of the night, kick down the front door, run up to your bedroom, where I hold a knife to your wife's throat and say "give me your car keys", what part of your personal responsibility for your personal possessions should you have followed more attentively?
Perhaps the advice contained within the crime prevention leaflets advising responsible care of valuable property should have been followed more attentively!
So when I come round your house in the middle of the night, kick down the front door, run up to your bedroom, where I hold a knife to your wife's throat and say "give me your car keys", what part of your personal responsibility for your personal possessions should you have followed more attentively?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
MG
Same as always. Playing my part in reducing crime and disorder and making our communities feel safer.
So, what you going to do for the next year or so, Sid?