Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
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airpolice.
With respect.
Its not acceptable to me or any other member of the public for an argument to be put to us that the "security business" in Scotland is controlled by the people who would like to see us out of the skies.
The government operate a very strict system of security and disclosure checks where airport passes are concerned.
We are not talking about a stakeout on a buliding project here (for want of another description) but "secure" airports/helipads etc. where the rest of the staff are given full disclosure checks with the government.
If BAA and other airports are not secure then lets get the birds on military bases with keen young lads with SA80s looking after them. $hoot the $crotes
With respect.
Its not acceptable to me or any other member of the public for an argument to be put to us that the "security business" in Scotland is controlled by the people who would like to see us out of the skies.
The government operate a very strict system of security and disclosure checks where airport passes are concerned.
We are not talking about a stakeout on a buliding project here (for want of another description) but "secure" airports/helipads etc. where the rest of the staff are given full disclosure checks with the government.
If BAA and other airports are not secure then lets get the birds on military bases with keen young lads with SA80s looking after them. $hoot the $crotes
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Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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Ha Ha!! So So innocent!! You think a team of security guards would be cheap?? In Feb and March each year, some units are not allowed to order stationery because there is no money. If you can't afford a pen, how on earth are you going to afford security? This is the REAL world under the Labour Government, not this 'surely' world that some of you live in. WE ARE BANKRUPT IN THIS COUNTRY!! Protect the assets you have. 
Silsoe, is it a TLC helilift?
"The TLC Helilift is not intended for the carrying of people, therefore everyone must be out of the helicopter before it is attached to the Helilift."
"The TLC Helilift is not intended for the carrying of people, therefore everyone must be out of the helicopter before it is attached to the Helilift."
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Scenario 1 - 1:18.9
Scenario 2 - 1:19.4
Scenario 2 - 1:19.4
Assuming that you walk to the LP faster than the Helilift gets the ac there, then you win.
Thread Starter
Silsoe Sid said:
Well, it's an exact copy of the letter that we received the other day.
Come on RC, I know it's early, but do really expect us to rise to that one?
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Airpolice said
Clyde said
Clyde's version seems more accurate and less emotional than yours
Someone climbed the fence and jettisoned the door of the 135. Then ransacked the aircraft which was sitting on the apron, not in the hangar.
There was, at that time, no security for the aircraft which stops operations at 22:00 each day.
The suspect was caught by the early shift guys arriving for work.
Almost £40,000 worth of damage according to early reports
There was, at that time, no security for the aircraft which stops operations at 22:00 each day.
The suspect was caught by the early shift guys arriving for work.
Almost £40,000 worth of damage according to early reports
Minimal damage to a door and no ransacking done.
Case been heard and dealt with in court.
Case been heard and dealt with in court.
Yes Police on duty at the time of the incident.
"About 0700 hrs on Sunday 21 March 2010 a 17 year male scaled the perimeter fence which surrounds the heliport and entered the air ambulance, no damage or property stolen from air ambulance, he then made his way across the pad and entered the police helicopter. While inside the aircraft he jettisoned both the front doors which fell to the ground causing minor damage to both doors.
Sadly the Pilot had left his life jacket within the aircraft which the male removed and made off with, the jacket contained a STASS bottle, personal locator beacon and day/night signal distress flare.
Having initially made off from the base he activated the flare and was attempting to activate the PLB without success. The Police crew of the aircraft then discovered the damage to the aircraft at which point they observed the male climbing back into the base!
The male was under the influence of drink and drugs. All stolen property was recovered albeit in a state and requiring replaced.
He was duly apprehended and kept in custody, he appeared at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Monday 22 March, pled guilty to vandalism and not guilty to the theft of the life jacket. This was accepted by the court."
Sadly the Pilot had left his life jacket within the aircraft which the male removed and made off with, the jacket contained a STASS bottle, personal locator beacon and day/night signal distress flare.
Having initially made off from the base he activated the flare and was attempting to activate the PLB without success. The Police crew of the aircraft then discovered the damage to the aircraft at which point they observed the male climbing back into the base!
The male was under the influence of drink and drugs. All stolen property was recovered albeit in a state and requiring replaced.
He was duly apprehended and kept in custody, he appeared at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Monday 22 March, pled guilty to vandalism and not guilty to the theft of the life jacket. This was accepted by the court."
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Bertie, I knew that was going to be mentioned, however perhaps 'needs dictate' in some circumstances. What would be their reason in saying that, H&S perhaps?
I put it to you that flying in the aircraft is considerably more dangerous than sitting in it when it is on a helilift. (unless of course it gets attacked at the time!)
RC,
Well training for and completing, 2 Marathons, 3 Half Marathons and a triathlon in the last 12 months would prove otherwise!
(
Grade 1 deployment?)
I disagree with running to the aircraft as when you arrive, especially in this weather, you steam up the screens which in turn means that you then have to sit on the ground de-misting. You also run (pun intended) the risk of missing a check in your haste, for example do you run around the pre flight walkround and really look at the ac in doing so?
What other things are missed in this rush to get to the job?
(I refer to my point about dep profiles)
MG, well it was very early in the morning for that info to come out to an individual. Do we all get to see this letter at work?
I put it to you that flying in the aircraft is considerably more dangerous than sitting in it when it is on a helilift. (unless of course it gets attacked at the time!)
RC,
"Reduced Pie consumption and more frequent visits to the gym could easily see those times reversed."
"If it's a grade 1 deployment I run to the aircraft, as every second does count."
Grade 1 deployment?)I disagree with running to the aircraft as when you arrive, especially in this weather, you steam up the screens which in turn means that you then have to sit on the ground de-misting. You also run (pun intended) the risk of missing a check in your haste, for example do you run around the pre flight walkround and really look at the ac in doing so?
What other things are missed in this rush to get to the job?
(I refer to my point about dep profiles)
MG, well it was very early in the morning for that info to come out to an individual. Do we all get to see this letter at work?
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(
Grade 1 deployment?)
Grade 1 deployment?)
I disagree with running to the aircraft as when you arrive, especially in this weather, you steam up the screens which in turn means that you then have to sit on the ground de-misting. You also run (pun intended) the risk of missing a check in your haste, for example do you run around the pre flight walkround and really look at the ac in doing so?
Never steamed up due to physical exertion (except in the past during an OPC or two!) however have regularly had to wait for clear screens when all three crew members have been rained on. As oil levels on TM powered 135's should be checked within 10 - 15 mins after shutdown I carry out a thorough post flight check. My pre flight is restricted to cowlings secure and nothing falling off or leaking onto to the pad.
Do we all get to see this letter at work?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
RC
So you accept that;
You steam up in cases where the pressure is on, such as when the bodys temp increases after running to the ac.
Having an ac in the hangar is good if frosty conditiuons are likely.
Wet people, regardless if ac is indoors or out, will cause condensation.
Jobs will always be lost by a few seconds, are your timings so accurate that you can blame it on the ac being in or out of a hangar?
I used to run out to the ac on dispersal in my early days, and jobs were still lost just a few seconds before we got there. Jobs were still cancelled after dashing out to the ac and No1 was just winding up or we had just become airborne etc.
Do/Will you save vital seconds by ignoring FLM notes such as;
"To ensure the engines are supplied enough fuel, prime pumps must be on for at least 10 sec, before starting engines."
"When the FADEC test has been completed and the corresponding cautions have gone off automatically, wait another 10 seconds before starting engines.
I hate to challenge an individuals way of doing things, yet in light of what you said earlier, I have in the back off my mind, in all the rush of things, to gain that extra second,
Do you pause... take breath... and go through (perhaps even chall/resp) pre-take offs in a calm manner?
I once started to go off on a Casevac in Canada in a Gazelle. (Fallen tank decking onto legs IIRC)
'My pilot' went through the post take offs, 'Tq, Nc T4 CWP' and was happy to fly away to get there ASAP, until I pointed out that the torquemeter had actually failed ! We took a different aircraft.
It turned out, a tank crewman had sprained an ankle jumping off the tank.
We are talking Police Helicopters here, I simply don't understand how and why, every single second counts?
Even when I spent some time at a combined police/aa unit the ac was hangared!
Never steamed up due to physical exertion (except in the past during an OPC or two!) however have regularly had to wait for clear screens when all three crew members have been rained on.
We've been hangaring our aircraft during the hours of darkness ever since the West Midlands incident and its a pain in the a**e. The only good thing at this time of year is that it remains frost free. If its lashing down with rain you enter the cockpit with soaked clothes with the potential for codensation, and I know for a fact that the extra time taken to drag the aircraft out of the hangar has lost us a couple of pursuits.
You steam up in cases where the pressure is on, such as when the bodys temp increases after running to the ac.
Having an ac in the hangar is good if frosty conditiuons are likely.
Wet people, regardless if ac is indoors or out, will cause condensation.
Jobs will always be lost by a few seconds, are your timings so accurate that you can blame it on the ac being in or out of a hangar?
I used to run out to the ac on dispersal in my early days, and jobs were still lost just a few seconds before we got there. Jobs were still cancelled after dashing out to the ac and No1 was just winding up or we had just become airborne etc.
Do/Will you save vital seconds by ignoring FLM notes such as;
"To ensure the engines are supplied enough fuel, prime pumps must be on for at least 10 sec, before starting engines."
"When the FADEC test has been completed and the corresponding cautions have gone off automatically, wait another 10 seconds before starting engines.
I hate to challenge an individuals way of doing things, yet in light of what you said earlier, I have in the back off my mind, in all the rush of things, to gain that extra second,
If it's a grade 1 deployment I run to the aircraft, as every second does count.
I once started to go off on a Casevac in Canada in a Gazelle. (Fallen tank decking onto legs IIRC)
'My pilot' went through the post take offs, 'Tq, Nc T4 CWP' and was happy to fly away to get there ASAP, until I pointed out that the torquemeter had actually failed ! We took a different aircraft.
It turned out, a tank crewman had sprained an ankle jumping off the tank.
We are talking Police Helicopters here, I simply don't understand how and why, every single second counts?
Even when I spent some time at a combined police/aa unit the ac was hangared!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Bertie,
In the manual here I have;
2.2 Intended Use
Carriage of Persons
The helilift is not designed for the carriage of persons. The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations (LOLER) for equipment designed for the carriage of persons differs from those of equipment designed for the carriage of goods. The helicopter must be vacated before it is attached to the TLC helilift, and people must not ride on nor stand on the TLC helilift.
In the manual here I have;
2.2 Intended Use
Carriage of Persons
The helilift is not designed for the carriage of persons. The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations (LOLER) for equipment designed for the carriage of persons differs from those of equipment designed for the carriage of goods. The helicopter must be vacated before it is attached to the TLC helilift, and people must not ride on nor stand on the TLC helilift.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Anyway, IMHO simplest and safest solution.
Keep ac in hangar.
Tow unmanned ac to LP.
Carry on as normal.
Keep ac in hangar.
Tow unmanned ac to LP.
Carry on as normal.
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Now't personal Sid
But in my time with Police Aviation, Forces wanted cab outside ready to go at 'Seconds' notice.
AS 355 with all but master switches made so jump in, master on, hit start on ECU (usually alternated between No 1 or 2) and get things up and running.
Bad as AAC for doing pilots walk round and I know what I am talking about, I cannot remember the number of Starter/Gennys I changed due to sheared drive shaft, all in the name of Fast Start.
john
I begged one Senior pilot to switch off all on return from sortie and the other 'Seaside' forces who never fitted Pitot & Static blanks.
Still I must assume things have changed in ten years since I last played.
But in my time with Police Aviation, Forces wanted cab outside ready to go at 'Seconds' notice.
AS 355 with all but master switches made so jump in, master on, hit start on ECU (usually alternated between No 1 or 2) and get things up and running.
Bad as AAC for doing pilots walk round and I know what I am talking about, I cannot remember the number of Starter/Gennys I changed due to sheared drive shaft, all in the name of Fast Start.
john
I begged one Senior pilot to switch off all on return from sortie and the other 'Seaside' forces who never fitted Pitot & Static blanks.
Still I must assume things have changed in ten years since I last played.
Thread Starter
"When the FADEC test has been completed and the corresponding cautions have gone off automatically, wait another 10 seconds before starting engines.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
MG - Possibly because we aren't all flying the same version.
As our membership of the Magic Circle seems to have expired, can you confirm that RCs post here is a correct version of events?
Hi Jon, hope all is well. (hello to J Mc S )
I guess that would be one of the reasons the FLM says "recommended only if special circumstances require".
These days, there are going to have to be some fairly large cojones around to allow an ac to sit outside unattended. Or is there some kind of user group wall wee-ing competition going on out there?
As our membership of the Magic Circle seems to have expired, can you confirm that RCs post here is a correct version of events?
Hi Jon, hope all is well. (hello to J Mc S )
I guess that would be one of the reasons the FLM says "recommended only if special circumstances require".
These days, there are going to have to be some fairly large cojones around to allow an ac to sit outside unattended. Or is there some kind of user group wall wee-ing competition going on out there?
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Dave, my company policy is to wait 10 secs after FADEC checks complete, it was news to me, but we do it no matter how urgent the callout. 
Thread Starter
As our membership of the Magic Circle seems to have expired, can you confirm that RCs post here is a correct version of events?
Dave, my company policy is to wait 10 secs after FADEC checks complete