MD - All Not Good in Mesa
We can all talk to malcontents, Ned.
The secret is to look more broadly, talk to a wider range of people (including those who don't have an axe to grind) and take a wider view.
It might not make for such exciting headlines, and it may not suit the classic antipodean 'only happy when he's whingeing' temperament, but it makes for better and more accurate journalism.
Congratulations on the 'flag waving' comment. It doesn't warrant a serious response, so I'll stoop to the kind of snide insinuation that you seem to like: Did Lynn turn down a request for an interview, or for an air-to-air sortie?
You clearly have a great deal of regard for your journalistic capabilities, and very little for mine. That's fine. I'll keep my views of them to myself.
The secret is to look more broadly, talk to a wider range of people (including those who don't have an axe to grind) and take a wider view.
It might not make for such exciting headlines, and it may not suit the classic antipodean 'only happy when he's whingeing' temperament, but it makes for better and more accurate journalism.
Congratulations on the 'flag waving' comment. It doesn't warrant a serious response, so I'll stoop to the kind of snide insinuation that you seem to like: Did Lynn turn down a request for an interview, or for an air-to-air sortie?
You clearly have a great deal of regard for your journalistic capabilities, and very little for mine. That's fine. I'll keep my views of them to myself.
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Jacko - First off who said I was talking just to malcontents. I have spoken to a lot of operators who have both good and bad things to say about MD, some from the very good to some you would never want to read about, and you would be surprised how many of these there are and some of the horror stories I have heard. George got on here and posted that he had a good experience with MD so good on him, if there are more out there who have had good experiences with MD then post away, would love to see them.
Interesting comment about the Antipodean temperament, quite wrong though actually. Aussies and Kiwis dont actually whine about things, we actually just dig in and get things done. I think you are actually referring to people in your neck of the woods.
With regards to the flag waving comment I think you need to develop a harder skin. You stand up and proclaim that Lynn Tilton is doing all these wonderful things for the American people, well why dont you go and have a chat to all those that have been told that they HAVE to take this week off with no pay and they have no choice. And if Tilton is doing such amazing things with MD then why is she trying to flog it off to Boeing at the moment. And No we havent been turned down for an air to air sortie with MD or an interview. In fact we couldnt be bothered. Would rather go and work with the operators on the coal face instead of listening to all the media hype and getting given a glossy 8 x 10 photo of her half naked with the American flag draped all over her - yep real classy for the CEO of a true american icon.
Not sure where I said I have little regard for your journalistic capabilities. For one I dont even know who you are, or who you work for, so bit hard to have an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you posted yours on the forum and likewise so did I. And with regards to my post its my opinion, nothing more, nothing less - has nothing to do with my journalistic capabilities, which by the way I am not that great at, which is why I have an editor and contributors writing for the magazine. Me - I stick to doing what I enjoy - taking photos.
500E - No I dont work for Bell - wrong.
Interesting comment about the Antipodean temperament, quite wrong though actually. Aussies and Kiwis dont actually whine about things, we actually just dig in and get things done. I think you are actually referring to people in your neck of the woods.
With regards to the flag waving comment I think you need to develop a harder skin. You stand up and proclaim that Lynn Tilton is doing all these wonderful things for the American people, well why dont you go and have a chat to all those that have been told that they HAVE to take this week off with no pay and they have no choice. And if Tilton is doing such amazing things with MD then why is she trying to flog it off to Boeing at the moment. And No we havent been turned down for an air to air sortie with MD or an interview. In fact we couldnt be bothered. Would rather go and work with the operators on the coal face instead of listening to all the media hype and getting given a glossy 8 x 10 photo of her half naked with the American flag draped all over her - yep real classy for the CEO of a true american icon.
Not sure where I said I have little regard for your journalistic capabilities. For one I dont even know who you are, or who you work for, so bit hard to have an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you posted yours on the forum and likewise so did I. And with regards to my post its my opinion, nothing more, nothing less - has nothing to do with my journalistic capabilities, which by the way I am not that great at, which is why I have an editor and contributors writing for the magazine. Me - I stick to doing what I enjoy - taking photos.
500E - No I dont work for Bell - wrong.
Aussies and Kiwis dont actually whine about things
Did Lynn turn down a request for an interview, or for an air-to-air sortie?
Only Ned can tell if what I have heard is true and why, if indeed true, he would make that decision.
I don't agree with Ned's opinions about MD as my experience has been contrary. Nor do I find Ms Tilton's photograph offensive.
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212 man - No $hit from you Bro 
BlackFly - Thanks for the comments about the pics, we always try to shoot the best we can and look for something different in each shoot we do. I think good pics help illustrate a story well and in some cases tell their own stories.
My personal pref is its much more fun and realistic to get out in the field with the operators and shoot their helos working and doing real work, not just scenic shoots around the factory or local area. But thats just what I like.
Re your experiences with MD, great that you have been treated well by them, am not saying everyone has had the short stick, just some that have been highlighted. I will scan in the pic of Ms Tilton that was being handed out and post it here for posters to enjoy.
Ned
BlackFly - Thanks for the comments about the pics, we always try to shoot the best we can and look for something different in each shoot we do. I think good pics help illustrate a story well and in some cases tell their own stories.
My personal pref is its much more fun and realistic to get out in the field with the operators and shoot their helos working and doing real work, not just scenic shoots around the factory or local area. But thats just what I like.
Re your experiences with MD, great that you have been treated well by them, am not saying everyone has had the short stick, just some that have been highlighted. I will scan in the pic of Ms Tilton that was being handed out and post it here for posters to enjoy.
Ned
Last edited by Ned-Air2Air; 26th May 2009 at 04:34.
This pic is nice....
Must consider to buy MD....
In marketing one of first rules is to attract potential customers.
If you consider about this pic like wrong way you are just to conservative.
Must consider to buy MD....
In marketing one of first rules is to attract potential customers.
If you consider about this pic like wrong way you are just to conservative.
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Ned - The MD902 tailboom photo was especially notable since it was on the back of a business card. 
Jacko - One of the downsides to the industry's magazines opening themselves up to a wider [i.e. youth] audience seems to have been that the standards of reporting and analysis have fallen dramatically when compared to the 1960s, '70s and '80s. This is perhaps not so much the case w.r.t. the publications to which you principally contribute (which retain a more 'serious' mil target audience), but most of the 'newsagent' mags seem willing to print whatever PR departments give them, without checking the facts or researching the backstory. I don't know whether this is due to publications not wishing to upset potential advertisers or whether it's due to the average experience levels of journos falling, but it's been very noticeable, even in 'reputable' mags such as Flight. As a result we see baseless claims being made about program schedules/costs, product technologies and company forecasts (and I'm not just thinking about MDHI here), contributing to the 'accepted' norm of most program targets being missed, with any editor brave enough to question what they're told being burned at the stake (q.v. JTM). This is not meant as a slam on journos on general - I have many good friends in the field (even including that whingeing antipodean Ned
) - but I miss the journalistic standards of old.
I/C
Jacko - One of the downsides to the industry's magazines opening themselves up to a wider [i.e. youth] audience seems to have been that the standards of reporting and analysis have fallen dramatically when compared to the 1960s, '70s and '80s. This is perhaps not so much the case w.r.t. the publications to which you principally contribute (which retain a more 'serious' mil target audience), but most of the 'newsagent' mags seem willing to print whatever PR departments give them, without checking the facts or researching the backstory. I don't know whether this is due to publications not wishing to upset potential advertisers or whether it's due to the average experience levels of journos falling, but it's been very noticeable, even in 'reputable' mags such as Flight. As a result we see baseless claims being made about program schedules/costs, product technologies and company forecasts (and I'm not just thinking about MDHI here), contributing to the 'accepted' norm of most program targets being missed, with any editor brave enough to question what they're told being burned at the stake (q.v. JTM). This is not meant as a slam on journos on general - I have many good friends in the field (even including that whingeing antipodean Ned
) - but I miss the journalistic standards of old.I/C
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It took a huge appetite for risk when Patriarch take over MD without running it through a bankruptcy to fix its capital structure. I know this because I looked at the asset, would have been a bidder on the asset or teamed up with others to bid on the asset. Give the entire Patriarch team credit for stepping up as there is no way I could figure out how to make money on the investment in the way they structured the deal.
At the end of the day, it is a good product with good uses. It is easy to maintain and is monumentally simpler than most other helicopters with similar performance capabilities. There are plenty of PMA parts, repairs and the model 250 is easily maintained by multiple shops both authorized and independent.
Patriarch has a history of buying troubled assets and working to turn them around. They are not afraid to put an asset in bankruptcy if necessary subsequent to purchase. Patriarch bought American La France from Freightliner and roughly two years later put it into bankruptcy.
So we can all speculate as much as we want but a few things are certain.
1) MD or whatever it will be called will be around for a long time. Assuming it is having some financial stress, and we have no actual knowledge that it is or is not, it has several options to include additional capital from its parent, bankruptcy restructuring, additional partner investment or even a sale.
2) People will continue to whine, yes we whine in America, about which is better product and who has better support.
3) Absent someone posting the financials, we have no real idea what is going on.
Lastly, let me comment on Ned from personal experience. In the dark days of MD, I was involved in the rebuilding a 530 and were short one part to finish. Ned got the part when no one else could. He got it by going to Patriarch directly. My experience with Ned is that he knows just about everyone and is willing to help without compensation. A rare characteristic.
At the end of the day, it is a good product with good uses. It is easy to maintain and is monumentally simpler than most other helicopters with similar performance capabilities. There are plenty of PMA parts, repairs and the model 250 is easily maintained by multiple shops both authorized and independent.
Patriarch has a history of buying troubled assets and working to turn them around. They are not afraid to put an asset in bankruptcy if necessary subsequent to purchase. Patriarch bought American La France from Freightliner and roughly two years later put it into bankruptcy.
So we can all speculate as much as we want but a few things are certain.
1) MD or whatever it will be called will be around for a long time. Assuming it is having some financial stress, and we have no actual knowledge that it is or is not, it has several options to include additional capital from its parent, bankruptcy restructuring, additional partner investment or even a sale.
2) People will continue to whine, yes we whine in America, about which is better product and who has better support.
3) Absent someone posting the financials, we have no real idea what is going on.
Lastly, let me comment on Ned from personal experience. In the dark days of MD, I was involved in the rebuilding a 530 and were short one part to finish. Ned got the part when no one else could. He got it by going to Patriarch directly. My experience with Ned is that he knows just about everyone and is willing to help without compensation. A rare characteristic.
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scan in the pic of Ms Tilton that was being handed out
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EN48 - Actually it was one of the set of four that were being handed out at HeliExpo and was shot at the same time as the others, so yep same person.
Amazing what photoshop can do
Amazing what photoshop can do
Jackonicko - I didn't see that one coming. One minute we're talking about MD Helicopters, next thing you have managed to gratuitously insult 25 million people with your unsubstantiated and irrelevant generalisation - "... the classic antipodean 'only happy when he's whingeing' temperament...". I find it somewhat bizarre that in the same sentence you mention "...better and more accurate journalism..."
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Yup id agree with Mark Six on this one, that comment did nothing for your argument Jackonicko.
And off the top of your head name one other helicopter manufacturers CEO?
If nothing else she's raised the profile of the company. When you say MD helicopters now everyone thinks "Lynn in leather pants" and not just "company with no idea"!
(Although alot of people think both)
And off the top of your head name one other helicopter manufacturers CEO?
If nothing else she's raised the profile of the company. When you say MD helicopters now everyone thinks "Lynn in leather pants" and not just "company with no idea"!
(Although alot of people think both)
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P-easa.im.r.s.01538
to all: received our easa certification for the md 500/520 and 600 rapid release door kit.
let us know if you need a copy
thanks for your patience
cal
let us know if you need a copy
thanks for your patience
cal
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Lynn's 902 pics
Re Neds post #47 and the pic of Lynn which were handed out, anybody got the other pics of Lynn straddling the Exploder tail boom.
Whats happening in MD since they lost the US military contract?
Whats happening in MD since they lost the US military contract?