MD - All Not Good in Mesa
southerncanuck
You may be working hard on the door kit, but it doesnt take the brains of an archbishop to work out that you need to get it certified before selling into EASA land !!!!!!! Begs the question what else gets missed. The particular machine with this problem and the one with over 80 skin faults has caused 3 customers to my knowledge to buy/ order other manufactures machines. How do they get out the factory, in fact a better question would be how does it get into the factory ?
Dont get me wrong I love the product but these incidents don t help and gives all your detractors ammunition.
You may be working hard on the door kit, but it doesnt take the brains of an archbishop to work out that you need to get it certified before selling into EASA land !!!!!!! Begs the question what else gets missed. The particular machine with this problem and the one with over 80 skin faults has caused 3 customers to my knowledge to buy/ order other manufactures machines. How do they get out the factory, in fact a better question would be how does it get into the factory ?
Dont get me wrong I love the product but these incidents don t help and gives all your detractors ammunition.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hughes500 - I know Cal, he is a good guy, and he has his own company, he doesnt work for MD. He is a supplier to them, so bottom line the issue in question is with the factory and MD, not with Cal. If MD made the decision to deliver machines to Europe without the door hinges being EASA approved then thats their fault.
Ned
Ned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: the hills of halton
Age: 71
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked with Cal and he always completes. That being said I am not sure why MD as the Type certificate holder would need STC approval . To the best of my knowledge all Eurocopter optional equipment kits ( the ones that are covered by SB's and EC Flight Manual Suplements )are approved under the TC not by STC . You will not see an STC for the Eurocopter cargo sling and swing for example.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: oceanside
Age: 58
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to all, we deliver the kits, as an stc to md, as we would to any customer and have for years. it was our understanding that md would add to the tc. as we know, it was not and md asked us to get our stc recognized asap. normally that procedure is not a major undertaking, we hold various easa stc's, that were faa stc's, recognized by easa.
that said the door kit stc was a much older format, that easa would not accept "as is". therefore we have had to go back revise the stc, re submit to the faa, who then fwds the revision on to easa for review, who then asks for corrections, then we re submit the corrections on yet another revision, then back to faa, then on to easa. you get the idea and this is exactly where we are today, working fast as possible on another and hopefully the final revision.
cal
that said the door kit stc was a much older format, that easa would not accept "as is". therefore we have had to go back revise the stc, re submit to the faa, who then fwds the revision on to easa for review, who then asks for corrections, then we re submit the corrections on yet another revision, then back to faa, then on to easa. you get the idea and this is exactly where we are today, working fast as possible on another and hopefully the final revision.
cal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Homer, Alaska
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given how good our delivery experience was with a 530F last August, I would be interested in some detail about the 80 defects in this new helicopter. Who completed the ship, who accepted the helicopter, when were the faults discovered, and what is MD doing to resolve these issues?
The photos would make you cry.
How the hull got out of the build shop is beyond me, how it got fitted out is beyond belief, then painted & shipped where were the QA people at every stage of production, there was a lack of oversight that beggared belief, (P45 forms, or US equivalent for all including department heads involved)
I would like to know if Ms T had heard, been told about this problem & if so what she did.
I can say we E mailed her personally about a problem & there was an immediate response to our query, which until then had not been addressed with any seriousness.
How the hull got out of the build shop is beyond me, how it got fitted out is beyond belief, then painted & shipped where were the QA people at every stage of production, there was a lack of oversight that beggared belief, (P45 forms, or US equivalent for all including department heads involved)
I would like to know if Ms T had heard, been told about this problem & if so what she did.
I can say we E mailed her personally about a problem & there was an immediate response to our query, which until then had not been addressed with any seriousness.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But dont expect a reply to anything for the next week, seems like for the next seven days the plant is all closed down and staff have been told to take time off without pay. 
Spoke to a couple of folks there today and bit pissed off having to use up their holiday allotments for this "forced" week off.
Spoke to a couple of folks there today and bit pissed off having to use up their holiday allotments for this "forced" week off.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: oceanside
Age: 58
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hughes500, no offence taken. we feel your pain. its a drain on everyone, especially those waiting for aircraft to be "signed off" in europe and put into service.
its frustrating for us, md and the faa as well, going back to square 1 on an already approved product.
that said, everyone at faa, easa and md is 100% supportive. most important, when the revisions hit the desk of both faa and easa, the turn times are 1-2 days, cannot complain with that type of respone, in any industry.
currently we are working through some revisions now, then on to faa, who forwards it on to easa.
cal
its frustrating for us, md and the faa as well, going back to square 1 on an already approved product.
that said, everyone at faa, easa and md is 100% supportive. most important, when the revisions hit the desk of both faa and easa, the turn times are 1-2 days, cannot complain with that type of respone, in any industry.
currently we are working through some revisions now, then on to faa, who forwards it on to easa.
cal
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: oceanside
Age: 58
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
widgeon, in all fairness to TC, once again, we have been fortunate, all our projects have been accepted / recognized in short order.
if i had one complaint with any process it would be to streamline the PSCP for new stc applications. it works in theory, but the execution is slow.
if i had one complaint with any process it would be to streamline the PSCP for new stc applications. it works in theory, but the execution is slow.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To those that might have some issues, here are some emails to help you get it into the right hands - working from the top down
Lynn Tilton - [email protected]
Craig Kitchen (Chief Operating Officer) [email protected]
Tim Ruddick (Head of Customer Support) [email protected]
Was going to put the email address of their Quality Control person but didnt think that would be any point
Hope these help.
Lynn Tilton - [email protected]
Craig Kitchen (Chief Operating Officer) [email protected]
Tim Ruddick (Head of Customer Support) [email protected]
Was going to put the email address of their Quality Control person but didnt think that would be any point
Hope these help.
Ned,
"crap" and "Bull$hit", eh?
Is that what passes for witty repartee among your circle, Ned?
Or is that an example of 'quality journalism'?
It's not a matter of 'believing press releases', it's one of discerning fundamental, underlying truth, rather than resorting to the easy option of dim-witted and unoriginal journalistic cynicism.
And I speak as a dim-witted journalist, so I'm aware of the temptation.
While the Tilton 'schtick' is quite strong (and distracting), I do believe that underlying it is the fact that she is entirely and genuinely sincere about American brands and American jobs. I think that her wider history demonstrates that. If she wasn't serious, MDH would have been easy enough to asset strip and move on from.
And despite the brief interval during which MDH was Dutch-owned, it is a quintessentially and deliberately American brand.
While airframe production has gone 'south of the border' moving it has saved the company - including hundreds of jobs. (And exporting basic airframe construction to low labour cost countries is hardly anything new in the helicopter industry, as Sikorsky and AgustaWestland have shown).
No-one would claim that MD Helicopters has not had its problems with both quality control and customer support (nor even that the company does not still have a long and difficult road to travel), but to deny that Tilton has made it a real priority to address these areas is both fundamentally unfair and inaccurate.
"She's worked damned hard to reinstate proper customer support and quality control..." as I said, and she is on the road towards achieving it.
Even on this thread, there's some indication that things are changing, and that things are on an upward trajectory - albeit a shallow one.
In my view, most of Tilton's critics are guilty of small-minded resentment, and display an old fashioned envy of successful women.
Tilton is twice the man than most of her detractors are, and has bigger balls than they'll ever have. And she's done more for the US working man than any blasted journalist.
Why are so many journos only really happy when they're tearing something down, I wonder? Envy of those who actually 'do' among those who merely prattle?
Perhaps you should stick to taking beautiful pictures, Ned
"crap" and "Bull$hit", eh?
Is that what passes for witty repartee among your circle, Ned?
Or is that an example of 'quality journalism'?
It's not a matter of 'believing press releases', it's one of discerning fundamental, underlying truth, rather than resorting to the easy option of dim-witted and unoriginal journalistic cynicism.
And I speak as a dim-witted journalist, so I'm aware of the temptation.
While the Tilton 'schtick' is quite strong (and distracting), I do believe that underlying it is the fact that she is entirely and genuinely sincere about American brands and American jobs. I think that her wider history demonstrates that. If she wasn't serious, MDH would have been easy enough to asset strip and move on from.
And despite the brief interval during which MDH was Dutch-owned, it is a quintessentially and deliberately American brand.
While airframe production has gone 'south of the border' moving it has saved the company - including hundreds of jobs. (And exporting basic airframe construction to low labour cost countries is hardly anything new in the helicopter industry, as Sikorsky and AgustaWestland have shown).
No-one would claim that MD Helicopters has not had its problems with both quality control and customer support (nor even that the company does not still have a long and difficult road to travel), but to deny that Tilton has made it a real priority to address these areas is both fundamentally unfair and inaccurate.
"She's worked damned hard to reinstate proper customer support and quality control..." as I said, and she is on the road towards achieving it.
Even on this thread, there's some indication that things are changing, and that things are on an upward trajectory - albeit a shallow one.
In my view, most of Tilton's critics are guilty of small-minded resentment, and display an old fashioned envy of successful women.
Tilton is twice the man than most of her detractors are, and has bigger balls than they'll ever have. And she's done more for the US working man than any blasted journalist.
Why are so many journos only really happy when they're tearing something down, I wonder? Envy of those who actually 'do' among those who merely prattle?
Perhaps you should stick to taking beautiful pictures, Ned
Last edited by Jackonicko; 25th May 2009 at 16:31.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whatever you say Jackonicko,
I will base my opinions on what I know from behind the scenes and what I hear from those who operate the product.
You continue to wave the flag for Lynn Tilton.
I will base my opinions on what I know from behind the scenes and what I hear from those who operate the product.
You continue to wave the flag for Lynn Tilton.
Last edited by Ned-Air2Air; 25th May 2009 at 18:43.