Heli ditch North Sea G-REDL: NOT condolences
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Miscellania
Civil helicoper design engineers have an additional constraint, the need to reduce passenger exposure to noise. There is very low frequency noise from the rotorblades and intrusive mid-band audible noise from the MGB right above the passenger cabin. Noise is addressed in several ways including rotor tip upturn, active noise supression, sound proofing, different materials and different tooth profiles in the MGB.
HUMS used to stand for Health and Usage Monitoring System but Smiths say the M now stands for Management. This is indicative of a change in design and usage philosophy.
Nothing's New 1: Magnetic chip detectors featured in Austin and Morris Minis where the gearbox shared the same oil as the engine. BMC fitted a magnet to the sump drain plug so that mechanics could check for chips.
Nothing's New 2: HUMS was used in the clock and watch industry. In 1967 we had an instrument that monitored the geartrain and plotted out a strip chart on which we could see the shape and periodicity of any discrepancy and deduce which gear set was causing any problem and what sort of problem it was. This was at Smiths Clock and Watch Division, which shared the Bishops Cleeve, Cheltenham site with Smiths Aviation Divison, later to develop HUMS for aircraft.
HUMS used to stand for Health and Usage Monitoring System but Smiths say the M now stands for Management. This is indicative of a change in design and usage philosophy.
Nothing's New 1: Magnetic chip detectors featured in Austin and Morris Minis where the gearbox shared the same oil as the engine. BMC fitted a magnet to the sump drain plug so that mechanics could check for chips.
Nothing's New 2: HUMS was used in the clock and watch industry. In 1967 we had an instrument that monitored the geartrain and plotted out a strip chart on which we could see the shape and periodicity of any discrepancy and deduce which gear set was causing any problem and what sort of problem it was. This was at Smiths Clock and Watch Division, which shared the Bishops Cleeve, Cheltenham site with Smiths Aviation Divison, later to develop HUMS for aircraft.
a) Abandon the flight and land on the nearest platform
b) Abandon the flight and ditch immediately
c) Continue flight to base
b) Abandon the flight and ditch immediately
c) Continue flight to base
a) is LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, which I assume is the current guidance
b) is clearly a nonsense and will never appear in an RFM (would make fitting new gearboxes a risky activity!)
c) is LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICAL and is not the normal guidance for an MGB CHIP
If EC suggest 'PRACTICAL' rather than 'POSSIBLE' then probably it will change.
(of course, entirely irrelevant to the accident in question, as the poor crew had no opportunity to choose their options)
Latest FAA at Airworthiness Directives
Latest EASA at EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
Not sure why there should be a difference between them; isn't the 225 certification in any jurisdiction based on EASA?
Latest EASA at EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
Not sure why there should be a difference between them; isn't the 225 certification in any jurisdiction based on EASA?
Not sure why there should be a difference between them; isn't the 225 certification in any jurisdiction based on EASA?
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Airworthiness Directives (malabo #404)
I think I prefer the FAA Airworthiness Directive.
Last edited by twang53; 21st Apr 2009 at 20:13. Reason: add cross-reference
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Media
I'm getting concerned that the media are now out to hunt and capture anything that now happens to any Super Puma Helicopter that flies the North Sea.
Are they not aware what they are doing to this industry and not only this but what they are doing to families and people who have to travel on these helicopters.
Is not only media who are involved in the discussions about the saftey levels relating to the Super puma but also Unions and Politicians.
Are they not aware how many hours these helicopters have flown but also how many of these machines are our skies.
It would make a difference if these people knew what they were speaking about 9 times out of 10 they don't and this p..... me of so much.
I have read that the BBC have picked up that an AS332L2 had to make an emergency landing this morning on the Alwyn North how on earth do they get this infomation and how quickly they can get this information this type of information is damaging the industry because before long people start to loose faith in the machines.
I have heard that they are guys and girls offshore writing out wills before they travel home or away does sound like information we want to give out to our customers every little thing that goes wrong.
If the media are going to write or report on a incident can they not limit what they report or what they write or don't write it and think about the people it affects in our every day and the people that have to travel.
Are they not aware what they are doing to this industry and not only this but what they are doing to families and people who have to travel on these helicopters.
Is not only media who are involved in the discussions about the saftey levels relating to the Super puma but also Unions and Politicians.
Are they not aware how many hours these helicopters have flown but also how many of these machines are our skies.
It would make a difference if these people knew what they were speaking about 9 times out of 10 they don't and this p..... me of so much.
I have read that the BBC have picked up that an AS332L2 had to make an emergency landing this morning on the Alwyn North how on earth do they get this infomation and how quickly they can get this information this type of information is damaging the industry because before long people start to loose faith in the machines.
I have heard that they are guys and girls offshore writing out wills before they travel home or away does sound like information we want to give out to our customers every little thing that goes wrong.
If the media are going to write or report on a incident can they not limit what they report or what they write or don't write it and think about the people it affects in our every day and the people that have to travel.
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I disagree. Why should the media limit news such as this. People who travel on these aircraft have a right to know every time there is a problem, covering it up wont help anyone. As to how the BBC found out, well most of the offshore workforce in Aberdeen probably knew this morning before CHC did. The news came straight from the rig.
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Wigwam
then if we can not limit what is written in the media, All that is being acheived is scaring the people who have to travel in these machines.
There are people who are actually giving life offshore up and those that are left are writing wills before flying how can you explain this
Does this sound like the bears have convidence in the machines they fly no matter how much we tell them it is the safest form of transport offshore.
Every machine has had it its problems but this does not need the media hanging over and writing for every small incident that crops up it is not helping the industry and especially people who have to fly in these machines
The media don't care what they write as long as they get what they want no matter who the hurt this is wrong and should be more controlled and limit the information
then if we can not limit what is written in the media, All that is being acheived is scaring the people who have to travel in these machines.
There are people who are actually giving life offshore up and those that are left are writing wills before flying how can you explain this
Does this sound like the bears have convidence in the machines they fly no matter how much we tell them it is the safest form of transport offshore.
Every machine has had it its problems but this does not need the media hanging over and writing for every small incident that crops up it is not helping the industry and especially people who have to fly in these machines
The media don't care what they write as long as they get what they want no matter who the hurt this is wrong and should be more controlled and limit the information
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I'm not an offshore helicopter pilot, nor do I work on offshore rigs, so in a way my input is somewhat limited. However, I see both sides of the arguement. I agree with Pumaboy in the sense that the media are in any effect doing what they are best at, especially in light of REDL's tragic accident, and that's sensationalising small "news" so that they'll sell. They're using their typical journalism to get people worried and hyped up about the subsequent events in the North Sea. To the line though, all the BBC are in effect doing is providing information, different people will interpet it in different ways. Using scaremongery on the guys and girls who fly North sea choppers isn't healthy.
These events (precautionary landings) etc aren't uncommon so I can see why some people may not see the need for the media to tell anyone about it. Everyone has a right to know about something that affects them, especially when it involves something as prudent as this. No technical defect affecting the AS332 or EC225 has been offically prooved, and if something finally is, the AAIB report will tell us.
These events (precautionary landings) etc aren't uncommon so I can see why some people may not see the need for the media to tell anyone about it. Everyone has a right to know about something that affects them, especially when it involves something as prudent as this. No technical defect affecting the AS332 or EC225 has been offically prooved, and if something finally is, the AAIB report will tell us.
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pumaboy said;
There are people who are actually giving life offshore up and those that are left are writing wills before flying how can you explain this
The very fact that the AAIB cannot offer any solid basis for what may have initiated the sequence of mechanical failure which in turn created the damage sequence leading to the MGB housing breaking apart, causing the loss of the entire rotor head would also perhaps explain this.
People work offshore to pay for their families, not their funerals, and there does not appear to be a great deal of confidence in the aircraft type when people give up their jobs or write out their wills before flying, hopefully, this will change by the publication of the cause of this tragedy, and the implementation of whatever it takes to prevent a re-occurrence.
Anyone in this day and time without a Will is not paying attention to his personal business....and that includes all you young whipper snappers....single, childless, everyone needs a Will or the equivalent.
You never know....the 416 bus might chunk a wheel and it strikes you down on the way across the street from the Pub to the Chippy one night.
You never know....the 416 bus might chunk a wheel and it strikes you down on the way across the street from the Pub to the Chippy one night.
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We're getting reports that a Bristow engineer may have farted in the Hangar this afternoon. No news on casualties thus far, but one report suggests the engineer in question made a precautionary trip to the gents toilet to carry out further inspections.
Aviation expert Jim Ferguson refused to comment on the incident until the full findings are made public.
Aviation expert Jim Ferguson refused to comment on the incident until the full findings are made public.
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I would like to thank all of those who replied to my post of the media damaging the industry at a time the accident to REDL has shocked me and connot believe such a tragic accident has happend.
I would like to pass on my condolences to all involved in this tragic accident
RIP all aboard 85N
I would like to pass on my condolences to all involved in this tragic accident
RIP all aboard 85N
Pumabog: This is not the condolences thread!
Many people talk of the impact these accidents have on the offshore rig workers and their families.
How about the guys who fly offshore day in day out. So a rig worker does one trip every two weeks or so, the guys flying them do numerous trips a day! More so in the Southern North Sea as we fly intervention teams, daily maintenance teams etc so these guys fly twice a day for two weeks or whatever it is. They then get three weeks off I think. We don't get that luxury of two or three weeks off at once. Our terms and conditions are under threat right now to actually get us to fly more! How do you think that makes us feel? Slightly more stressed?
We can, and do, fly up to 10-20 sectors a day offshore, more so if you are an offshore based pilot.
Spare a thought for our families. The reason? Our wives and children may not say it sometimes but I know for a fact, speaking to people recently, that quite rightly, the families of those of us doing this job do worry quite a bit but don't tell us.
Yes have a will sorted out. Especially if you're not married and have children etc. It's amazing how a death and money can blur the lines between common sense, reason and greed.
This incident on the Alwyn yesterday just proves how the media sensationalise things going on now. Until the actual facts of the incident come out why dwell on it. How many precautionary landings have been made throughout the world? If it turns out the cause was due to recent events then ok, systems need to be looked at.
Get a grip people. We do this job through choice. If people don't like it, move on, give someone else a break. There are risks in everything you do. I thought I was safe working on a 330,000tonne tanker sailing the worlds oceans. Unfortunately, the 475,000tonne tanker that smacked into the side of us didn't see us until it was too late.
Accidents happen.
They are far and few between in the offshore helicopter industry.
Many people talk of the impact these accidents have on the offshore rig workers and their families.
How about the guys who fly offshore day in day out. So a rig worker does one trip every two weeks or so, the guys flying them do numerous trips a day! More so in the Southern North Sea as we fly intervention teams, daily maintenance teams etc so these guys fly twice a day for two weeks or whatever it is. They then get three weeks off I think. We don't get that luxury of two or three weeks off at once. Our terms and conditions are under threat right now to actually get us to fly more! How do you think that makes us feel? Slightly more stressed?
We can, and do, fly up to 10-20 sectors a day offshore, more so if you are an offshore based pilot.
Spare a thought for our families. The reason? Our wives and children may not say it sometimes but I know for a fact, speaking to people recently, that quite rightly, the families of those of us doing this job do worry quite a bit but don't tell us.
Yes have a will sorted out. Especially if you're not married and have children etc. It's amazing how a death and money can blur the lines between common sense, reason and greed.
This incident on the Alwyn yesterday just proves how the media sensationalise things going on now. Until the actual facts of the incident come out why dwell on it. How many precautionary landings have been made throughout the world? If it turns out the cause was due to recent events then ok, systems need to be looked at.
Get a grip people. We do this job through choice. If people don't like it, move on, give someone else a break. There are risks in everything you do. I thought I was safe working on a 330,000tonne tanker sailing the worlds oceans. Unfortunately, the 475,000tonne tanker that smacked into the side of us didn't see us until it was too late.
Accidents happen. They are far and few between in the offshore helicopter industry.