Roster Woes - Are We Going Back To The Bad Old Days
TTFD,
I agree. In 1999 we saw a ludicrous shedding of experience that has, arguably, never been replaced. That's not to say I didn't feel nervous in 1992!
I agree. In 1999 we saw a ludicrous shedding of experience that has, arguably, never been replaced. That's not to say I didn't feel nervous in 1992!
Ah well now we see your pique 212Man. You were a big man in a small pond and absent the infamous secret hand shake that leads to riches within the kingdom....learned a great lesson in Helicopter Economics 101.
It would appear the risk of food poisoning from North Sea carry outs far outweighed (out weighs) the risks you cite while flying for the company in Nigeria. They do make allowances for hardships as I recall.
All the time I thought you were rolling in the dough, enjoying the fame and perks that came with the job as it brought lots of travel, responsibility, and authority with the few minor downsides you mention.
I guess your biggest problem nowadays is "pinging" in your Porsche when you get bad petrol.
Sounds as though we think much the same about the thought processes that led to your wake up on the ol' road to Damascus noted in the Good Book.
It would appear the risk of food poisoning from North Sea carry outs far outweighed (out weighs) the risks you cite while flying for the company in Nigeria. They do make allowances for hardships as I recall.
All the time I thought you were rolling in the dough, enjoying the fame and perks that came with the job as it brought lots of travel, responsibility, and authority with the few minor downsides you mention.
I guess your biggest problem nowadays is "pinging" in your Porsche when you get bad petrol.
Sounds as though we think much the same about the thought processes that led to your wake up on the ol' road to Damascus noted in the Good Book.
SAS, I shall afford you the courtesy that my 00:45 local time demands, for fear of being accused of pique!
If you will give me the courtesy of re-reading my posts you will find no reference to small ponds or the like.
With regard to the wider question, who do you think the HR departments are arnswering to? The Finance Depts. Who do you think the finance Depts answer too? The customer (indirectly) Do you really believe that the customers are somehow immune to all of this financial instability? Do you really believe that the Oil Companies in the UK and Europe are sitting back and basking in profits?
If you do, then kindly go off and daydream. If not, thanks for sticking with reality!
If you will give me the courtesy of re-reading my posts you will find no reference to small ponds or the like.
With regard to the wider question, who do you think the HR departments are arnswering to? The Finance Depts. Who do you think the finance Depts answer too? The customer (indirectly) Do you really believe that the customers are somehow immune to all of this financial instability? Do you really believe that the Oil Companies in the UK and Europe are sitting back and basking in profits?
If you do, then kindly go off and daydream. If not, thanks for sticking with reality!
Last edited by 212man; 24th Mar 2009 at 17:18.
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Oh come on 212 man...
a)take a chill pill.....
b) Quote" Do you really believe that the customers are somehow immune to all of this financial instability? Do you really believe that the Oil Companies in the UK and Europe are sitting back and basking in profits"?
COME ON MAN...Give me a break, you want us to feel sorry for the oil companies now...like they are struggling??? Oil prices may be down but COME ON!!!!!
"BP was at the centre of a huge row yesterday (OCT' 08)!! after unveiling record quarterly profits of $10bn (£6.4bn) - a rise of 148%". THE GUARDIAN.....
So since then they've "lost" all of those profits?????
What else can I say to wind you up....Hmmmm...Why don't you return to the UK and join me on the sick list..
a)take a chill pill.....
b) Quote" Do you really believe that the customers are somehow immune to all of this financial instability? Do you really believe that the Oil Companies in the UK and Europe are sitting back and basking in profits"?
COME ON MAN...Give me a break, you want us to feel sorry for the oil companies now...like they are struggling??? Oil prices may be down but COME ON!!!!!
"BP was at the centre of a huge row yesterday (OCT' 08)!! after unveiling record quarterly profits of $10bn (£6.4bn) - a rise of 148%". THE GUARDIAN.....
So since then they've "lost" all of those profits?????
What else can I say to wind you up....Hmmmm...Why don't you return to the UK and join me on the sick list..
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I agree with 212man.
Pullharder, I hear one oil company is forecast to make a tenth of what it did last year. Mothballing of rigs is on the cards, Invergordon slowly filling with un-used semi's. It's not that they have loads of money and aren't choosing to spend it, the NS is simply uneconomic in its current state.
The service sector is vastely over-priced for the current oil price...simple
This will lead to activity levels dropping (significantly)...simple
That will make negotiating a pilot's idea of a 'good' roster very difficult...simple.
Pullharder, I hear one oil company is forecast to make a tenth of what it did last year. Mothballing of rigs is on the cards, Invergordon slowly filling with un-used semi's. It's not that they have loads of money and aren't choosing to spend it, the NS is simply uneconomic in its current state.
The service sector is vastely over-priced for the current oil price...simple
This will lead to activity levels dropping (significantly)...simple
That will make negotiating a pilot's idea of a 'good' roster very difficult...simple.
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It seems there has been a slight thread slip here. Back to the question in hand, What are the crews/balpa CC proposing, to change the current plan of the CHC Managment? Have there been attempts to provide a more productive version of the ET roster? what exactly are management planning to offer as a replacement? I know the troubles of implementing the original rosters were not few, so are they planning on going through all that sh#t again and for what purpose?
T4
T4
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whatever the initial thread is about,I am must be hallucinating that I read from people(pilots or otherwise) that actually feel sorry for the poor,poor oil companies.
I have the cure,lets all fly for free on the canadian 42 on 5 off 42 roster and see if we can help these poor oil companies to increase there thin profits a bit.
What a load of b...ocks
I have the cure,lets all fly for free on the canadian 42 on 5 off 42 roster and see if we can help these poor oil companies to increase there thin profits a bit.
What a load of b...ocks
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Rotorknight,
I do not feel sorry for the oil companies believe me. But having an attitude that they are the 'bad guys', which many in our line of work do, is a bit naive. My point though, is that it will be belt-tightening and compromise all round to get through the next few years relatively unscathed. That will mean rosters that aren't so ideal.
I do not feel sorry for the oil companies believe me. But having an attitude that they are the 'bad guys', which many in our line of work do, is a bit naive. My point though, is that it will be belt-tightening and compromise all round to get through the next few years relatively unscathed. That will mean rosters that aren't so ideal.
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2papabravo,
On that point I will agree with you,they are not the bad guys.They have for the last 15 years supplied me with a very good living(and still do).
I think for our part the cure is that maybe our beloved helicopter companies start doing the same as the oil companies do,i.e. price fixing(oops did I really say that),so we can all keep on earning a good(and yes I think it is good) salary and live style.
If my memory serves me correctly the oil price we have now was actually very high not to long ago,which means the oil companies make enormous profits,while helicopter operators fly on an almost break even basis,which in turn is idiotic.
have a good evening
On that point I will agree with you,they are not the bad guys.They have for the last 15 years supplied me with a very good living(and still do).
I think for our part the cure is that maybe our beloved helicopter companies start doing the same as the oil companies do,i.e. price fixing(oops did I really say that),so we can all keep on earning a good(and yes I think it is good) salary and live style.
If my memory serves me correctly the oil price we have now was actually very high not to long ago,which means the oil companies make enormous profits,while helicopter operators fly on an almost break even basis,which in turn is idiotic.
have a good evening
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Mmmm ....
"I see flight ops like a car : pilots/engine and ops-scheduling/gearbox. You can tune up your engine to give more bhp but if you're missing a gear you won't go much faster..."
The other side of this quote of course is that if you try to increase the power output of your engine .... most likely it WILL NOT last as long!
"I see flight ops like a car : pilots/engine and ops-scheduling/gearbox. You can tune up your engine to give more bhp but if you're missing a gear you won't go much faster..."
The other side of this quote of course is that if you try to increase the power output of your engine .... most likely it WILL NOT last as long!
whatever the initial thread is about,I am must be hallucinating that I read from people(pilots or otherwise) that actually feel sorry for the poor,poor oil companies.
And then the equal time: at the moment you have a lot of pilots hovering around 750 hours/year; how on Earth are they going to be more "productive" with 18 more days on?
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I tell you what Rotorknight and Pullharder, spend a few years whith your salary being determined by a bunch of hysterical 25 year old city traders,
It might give you a better insight into what it would be like running an oil company!
Back to thread.....
North sea life has it's ups and downs and in this regard nothing has really changed in the last 20 years. Companies go through various phases of high's and lows and this reflects directly in profits and at the tail end rostering.
Many before you have had to make the same old worn out decisions... disrupt a happy settled family life (kids at good schools, wife happy working full/part time) or move on to pastures green. It's a difficult one, because as much as you whinge about it, life oop north is actually rather pleasant and a great place to bring up the nippers, plus the pay is better than most other gigs for what is after all a fairly boring, mundane and safe form of aviation....(if you don't agree with that, I suggest you DO move on). Most guy's elect to stay for the stability of family life and for that I cannot blame them or criticise....
When you have pilots staying for that reason, they are never likely to hold your hand on the way to the gallows.....
If you are not prepared to stand up and be counted, either shut the f**ck up or move on. I applaude, whatever your decision......
North sea life has it's ups and downs and in this regard nothing has really changed in the last 20 years. Companies go through various phases of high's and lows and this reflects directly in profits and at the tail end rostering.
Many before you have had to make the same old worn out decisions... disrupt a happy settled family life (kids at good schools, wife happy working full/part time) or move on to pastures green. It's a difficult one, because as much as you whinge about it, life oop north is actually rather pleasant and a great place to bring up the nippers, plus the pay is better than most other gigs for what is after all a fairly boring, mundane and safe form of aviation....(if you don't agree with that, I suggest you DO move on). Most guy's elect to stay for the stability of family life and for that I cannot blame them or criticise....
When you have pilots staying for that reason, they are never likely to hold your hand on the way to the gallows.....
If you are not prepared to stand up and be counted, either shut the f**ck up or move on. I applaude, whatever your decision......
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Standing Up And Be Counted
Personally,
The line is drawn in the sand and was put there by a determined effort on the part of the Pilots and the Balpa CC.
Anybody posting on this thread advocating we should put up with this change cos we have a good life/salary and so forth is part of the problem.
I work to provide wealth and stability for my family and I will never give way just so some slimy executives can place an order for that "Ivory Backscratcher" they have had their eye on.
The Oil Industry makes billions of £££ revenue and profit each year and thats fine by me, but I want my slice of that pie and I am not prepared to have my back broken earning it.
The ABZ Pilots will stick together because we know that is the only thing the management will respond do (I doubt they understand it).
None of us will accept this kind of knee jerk recession scaremongering because if we are to do so...where does it end..... us working every day for nothing!!
This kind of pathetic **** is caused only be a few middlemanagment types trying to earn a name for themselves and for most of them...I have stood up and witnessed more inteligence swilling around in a toilet bowl than in these people.
For the rest of you, not as fortunate as us, get a proper job or at least accept that by us up here maintaining the "Standard" that befits a North Sea Helicopter pilot, you at least have something to aspire to (salary and T&Cs I mean).
If they want to make savings, sack some of the hundreds of shiny arsed wasters that do nothing but erode our profits.
DB Out
The line is drawn in the sand and was put there by a determined effort on the part of the Pilots and the Balpa CC.
Anybody posting on this thread advocating we should put up with this change cos we have a good life/salary and so forth is part of the problem.
I work to provide wealth and stability for my family and I will never give way just so some slimy executives can place an order for that "Ivory Backscratcher" they have had their eye on.
The Oil Industry makes billions of £££ revenue and profit each year and thats fine by me, but I want my slice of that pie and I am not prepared to have my back broken earning it.
The ABZ Pilots will stick together because we know that is the only thing the management will respond do (I doubt they understand it).
None of us will accept this kind of knee jerk recession scaremongering because if we are to do so...where does it end..... us working every day for nothing!!
This kind of pathetic **** is caused only be a few middlemanagment types trying to earn a name for themselves and for most of them...I have stood up and witnessed more inteligence swilling around in a toilet bowl than in these people.
For the rest of you, not as fortunate as us, get a proper job or at least accept that by us up here maintaining the "Standard" that befits a North Sea Helicopter pilot, you at least have something to aspire to (salary and T&Cs I mean).
If they want to make savings, sack some of the hundreds of shiny arsed wasters that do nothing but erode our profits.
DB Out
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Had a bad back nine DB?
Joking apart, I totally agree with you, the T&Cs we fought for have benefited the whole of the UK pilot workforce to some degree or other.
By the way, I believe that CHC are still hiring 'Shiny ar$ed suits'. One day management will achieve their ultimate goal, no pilots, no engineers and no helicopters, management bliss!
Joking apart, I totally agree with you, the T&Cs we fought for have benefited the whole of the UK pilot workforce to some degree or other.
By the way, I believe that CHC are still hiring 'Shiny ar$ed suits'. One day management will achieve their ultimate goal, no pilots, no engineers and no helicopters, management bliss!