Roster Woes - Are We Going Back To The Bad Old Days

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I am dismayed to learn that are management are mounting a campaign to remove the current Equal Time Roster which has thus far produced some tremendous benefits, not only at a personal level, but for the overall saferty and operating health of the Company.

Whilst I understrand that in these times the Helicopter Operators must naturally looking to maximise productivity and profit in all areas of the operationsI cannot help but feel dismayed, THAT YET AGAIN the easy target would appear to be the pilots rosters.

In my neck of the woods, all three operators currently provide equal time rosters for the pilots. So no doubt if my Management are successful in achieving their aim, each operator in turn will end up with no option but to follow suit, just to remain competetive. A TRULLY VERY THIN EDGE OF A WEDGE.

Why is it that AOC Management think that stretching the crews thin, reducing wages and any other terms and condition we might have, of the workgroup that takes the most risk seems to be their only response the moment the accountants start shuffling in their over-padded leatherbound seats.

Prior to the Equal time roster, I lost count of the number of times I sat at the controls holding at W5, only to be startled by a large object filling the windscreen (A737 landing on the threshold or something like)......Realising I had been day-dreaming or just shagged from endless fatigue enducing, bone crushing misery of a non-cyclical in-human roster pattern.

Why should it be that:

ALL OTHER OPERATIONAL AREAS OF THE OFFSHORE INDUSTRY OPERATE ON EQUAL CYCLICAL TIME - as their management recognise the extreme pressure and fatigue caused by irregular roster patterns.

MY MANAGEMENT THINK SO LITTLE OF ME that they expect me to tell my family that I have no idea when I will work or when I will be home. Birthdays, Holdiays, family time - FORGET IT. Despite my dedication, hard work and expertise my life and my families lives, forever, are expected to be operated on a basis of chaos.

DESPITE THE CRY'S OF "SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY" The Management are trying to take us back to the dark ages of rostering that has been proven is extremely fatigueing, physically destructive and emotionally disruptive as we are plunged into direct conflict with our families trying to lead normal lives.

I URGE both my Management and the Pilot workforce to explore all avenues avaiable to prevent removal of the Equal Time Cyclical roster.

Personally I AM NOT PREPARED TO GO BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS

ITS NOT SAFE

ITS NOT HEALTHY

ITS NOT PRODUCTIVE

And above all ITS NOT HOW I WANT TO SPEND THE REST OF MY WORKING LIFE.

DB

[HOGE]

Got to think of the oil companies profits!

[Pullharder]

Could this be a way that our spineless,useless management (and I use that term very lightly)...can get more money out of the oil companies obscene profits?? They are being so unbelievable in the way they are going back on everything we fought for,for all the reasons DB mentions...so if we finally stop flying,the oil companies lose millions per day, our spineless management can blame us??? Instead of going to them with balls and telling them that the contracts aren't paying enough??? I mean, did we not fly enough last year at all bases??? Yes,I know that the flying schedule has slowed somewhat with less flights...but HELL, they still NEED us to fly,and if we ain't making good profits working for oil and gas, what's the point...lets stop flying then !!!! What are we to the oil companies..charity?? Maybe if there is an attack on all three operators pilots T&C we should ALL stop flying once and for all......see how long that would last...Personally,I am so sick of the pilots being blamed for EVERYTHING that goes wrong on the N.Sea....Not management...
Well, if they take away our T&C's, the extra I will have to work will be lost in sick days....and if I want to do anything a month ahead with no roster telling me when I'm off cos the crappy company hasn't produced it yet...guess what...sick again...
Had enough.
Rant over.
PH.

[Variable Load]

DB, you might not get too much understanding from your Canadian colleagues. Canadian rules mean they can work 14 hour duty days, every day for 42 days in a row.

It only ends at day 42 because another lucky victim will arrive to take over.

If he doesn't arrive you can just keep on working

You may think that the CAA regulations are still inadequate. Guys here are experiencing UK style rules for the first time and it is something of a revelation to them.

Back to your point, perhaps you should ask those who "manage" you if the same changes are also going to be introduced in other European locations. If not, why not?

[helimutt]

It really sucks, big time. And management have said there will be NO negotiation. Roll on April 20th. I'll be interested to see how many of their aircraft fly that day, or maybe not?

Is anyone going to do anything about it?


PS, DB, management aren't 'mounting a campaign' they ARE implementing these changes with no choice in the matter.

[rotorknight]

Isn't it lovely being in the oil industry

[Wizzard]

Quote Pullharder

"Well, if they take away our T&C's, the extra I will have to work will be lost in sick days....and if I want to do anything a month ahead with no roster telling me when I'm off cos the crappy company hasn't produced it yet...guess what...sick again.."

Perfect, now not only will I have to work extra days due to the roster changes, I'll have to work even harder to cover for "colleagues" like you

When will you guys learn that going sick does not stuff the company - it stuffs your work-mates Grow up!

[Outwest]

It only ends at day 42 because another lucky victim will arrive to take over.

If he doesn't arrive you can just keep on working

Actually, after those 42 straight days of work you must have 5 days rest then go for another 42 days!!!!

[Variable Load]

Actually, after those 42 straight days of work you must have 5 days rest then go for another 42 days!!!!

Phew, I'm glad that exists! There was me thinking that the Canadian rules were perhaps slightly tiring

[griffothefog]

Rosters....

Lad's,

I was on an equal time roster on the North pea over 23 years ago. !!!!!

YOU have the power to do something about it and put management firmly in its place. Come on boy's and girls, its a "labour love fest" out there, where most immigrants have more rights than you do

What next, Taliban rule and Sha**a law?

Good luck with that.......... Did my freedom fighting up there many moons ago, its in your hands now just like it was in ours then.

Oh yeh, I wouldn't take our Canadian brothers rostering system to heart, they got slavery and below industry pay down pat years ago. But.... sniper firing and long line ops... The Canucks rock !!

[T4 Risen]

How are Scotia management forcing this change in terms and conditions through with out BALPA stopping them?

What is the general feeling in the crewroom as to what to do about it?

Have they looked at amending the current roster to cover supply and demand of crews without removing the ET roster?

T4

[SASless]

Griffo says it right.....whining and crying in your beer will not work.

You do have Balpa and with a whole lot of backbone you can retain your rostering system.

Those junior in seniority might start looking for other work as redundancies will require a shedding of excess folks.

Bristow has never been known for using legal, rational, or fair methods when it comes to axing folks so be prepared for folks to start dropping all around you rather than seeing an orderly last hired....first fired method.

Think back to the occasion where it was first hired...first fired that wound up in civil proceedings in which the pilots won their case....those of them that had the courage to challenge the firings.

[TTFD]

Bristow has never been known for using legal, rational, or fair methods when it comes to axing folks so be prepared for folks to start dropping all around you rather than seeing an orderly last hired....first fired method

Am I missing something here? Where did it say that Bristow was trying to change the rosters? I know they have just announced cuts in staff and meetings today and tomorrow should bring out more info. However, AFAIK there has never been any mention of changing the rosters, as the management were impressed by the way they are working (or so I was told by a BALPA rep).

However, it will be intersting to see if they stick to LIFO or try some other method. New ageism rules would make it difficult to take from the top, but previous management came up with some novel ways to take the most junior captains out the last time, although fortunately every one got their jobs back within a few weeks.

I believe it is the other red (or is it orange?), white and blue that are having problems with their management. Have to say that for once, the new culture in Bristow (despite the announced cuts) has been the most open and mature that I can remember in a number of years. They may not be perfect (what management is?), but they have made great efforts in trying to be open over the last few years.

Any takers on bets that HR aren't included in the cuts, but they actually grow in numbers again?

[windowseatplease]

Is "last in, first out" a fair policy on redundancy?

What about the new co-jo with massive loan repayments (due to the fact that employers won't pay for IRs anymore) and no other hope of finding a job because of his low hours.

[Pullharder]

Hey Wizzard......then why don't you join me on the same day?? Why don't we ALL arrange an unofficial "sick period" starting the same day to run for "x" number of days....then nobody has to work extra, we make a point to management, and we still get paid!!!!!!!!!!!!

[212man]

Hey Wizzard......then why don't you join me on the same day?? Why don't we ALL arrange an unofficial "sick period" starting the same day to run for "x" number of days....then nobody has to work extra, we make a point to management, and we still get paid!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm reminded why I left the UK.

So you work 6 months a year, get 3-4 times the average UK annual wage...forget it, no point arguing...

Glad the Ghurkas and Royal Marines in Helmand don't think like you do - f***ing parasite!

[SASless]

I guess you sacrificed and took a pay cut when you left did you 212Man?

The "Call in Sick" attitude exists in the Union Airline bunch here in the USA as well. Seen it happen at a convention one time....guy was scheduled for a flight the next day....picked up his cell phone called in sick....and returned to his drinking! Did not mind the calling in as much as I did the comments he made before and after the call.

[212man]

I guess you sacrificed and took a pay cut when you left did you 212Man?

You know what - yes I did! It was a calculated gamble, based on verbal assurances. Bear in mind I was already 20,000+ GBP behind my UK counterparts at the time I left my UK employer.

Prior to that, I took a slight Gross pay cut and took the tax free advantage. Picked up some serious FTL infringements, Malaria (the real one - not the off for 3 days with a headache variety) and was taken hostage, but we were a happy band who worked hard and played hard. By the time I left I was Making less as a 16 year pilot with CTTC and Nigeria allowance than a year 1 ABN captain, and my basic was about year 3 SFO in ABN. That's why I left......Principle

I tell you what, jump on the Clapham Omnibus and present this topic "roster woes" and see how much sympathy you get.....

[212man]

P3 - thanks. It's good to see a balanced perspective. I do my grocery shopping with the Ghurkas and this "I'll pull a sickey" mentality really raises the red mist with me - it's like a sick TV spoof, or 'The Office'.

[TTFD]

Is "last in, first out" a fair policy on redundancy?

LIFO is supported by BALPA for many reasons including retaining pilot experience having significant safety benefits. It is more likely that an employment tribunal will support a LIFO based redundancy policy that has strong industrial support/agreement.

What about the new co-jo with massive loan repayments (due to the fact that employers won't pay for IRs anymore) and no other hope of finding a job because of his low hours.

What about the person who has worked most of his career in aviation, has a mortgage, car and/or other loans, plus a wife and kids at school or university to support and is only a few years away from retirement? Would they think it fair that they are made redundant when they see someone who has only been in the company 5 minutes and keeps their job?


I don't like the thought of anyone being made redundant, but there has to be someone. Better that a company keeps staff with experience than get rid of them.

Is it fair? Well, there is no fair way to make staff redundant. There are criteria which are agreed by the Company and the Union and that is what should be stuck to.