Low Flying at Public Events
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Low Flying at Public Events
I think this link will work, it's a shot of craiog Lowndes going like a bat out of hell over the 'top of the mountain' at the recent Bathurst 1000. Not much wonder with that pesky squirrel right up 'is clacker!
It invokes the question of what AOC allows this super low level flying at public events, after all the crowd went there to see cars crash not some fruit loop in a helicopter trying to turn them and him into statistics?
It invokes the question of what AOC allows this super low level flying at public events, after all the crowd went there to see cars crash not some fruit loop in a helicopter trying to turn them and him into statistics?
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I think the foreshortening effect of the photographer's lens makes it look a lot lower than it is. Maybe someone who was there could give a better idea of the heights they were operating at?
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Gee, TET, you really have been taking your grumpy pills 
I'd have thought an oldie like you would have an idea of what the terrain is up there at Skyline/The Esses, and how far away the crowd is from the helicopter 
Here's a shot of the road from further up Skyline: look at the open area the other side of the road, where the camera ship was flying
and a bit further on, I'd guess your photo was from the other side of the road, by the shed:
and just to show that the commercial photographers know where to get the action shots: last year
ps did you notice the bridge over the road between the Squirrel and Craig in 'your' photo, and how the long lens has distorted the distance? Maybe that will give a better indication of how this is Much Ado About Nothing
Yes, been there and done it: lots of fun, but a very long day, and all the ticks were in the right box from CASA
I'd have thought an oldie like you would have an idea of what the terrain is up there at Skyline/The Esses, and how far away the crowd is from the helicopter Here's a shot of the road from further up Skyline: look at the open area the other side of the road, where the camera ship was flying
and a bit further on, I'd guess your photo was from the other side of the road, by the shed:
and just to show that the commercial photographers know where to get the action shots: last year
ps did you notice the bridge over the road between the Squirrel and Craig in 'your' photo, and how the long lens has distorted the distance? Maybe that will give a better indication of how this is Much Ado About Nothing
Yes, been there and done it: lots of fun, but a very long day, and all the ticks were in the right box from CASA
and another thing - quick take a look before evidence is removed..
look how close the pilot is deliberately flying their rotor blades to the edge of the photograph!!!
Having studied photography for 4 years at college and worked for Kodak for 8 years I think I can comment. The use of telephoto lenses totally distorts the perspective and the fact that it is being shot "up" makes it worse. This is why a portrait photographer uses a telephoto lens when shooting portraiture, so that the persons nose doesn't look its actual size and is "flatter" with repect to the rest of their face. A wide angle lens has the opposite effect if used close up. Not to say that the heli's weren't low but not as low or as close as the pic makes them appear.
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Without quoting the rules cause i cant remember them verbatim, but aren't you allowed to fly low level for when so endorsed, it is on the AOC and it is for a specific purpose. We do it firefighting all the time and we sure do fly over people (although try to avoid them) and structures and even the odd flame and smoke. I am sure Bathurst is very well risk assessed and I doubt whether it would occur if it were deemed unsafe by our dear Casa Friends (they are not happy until we aren't). Have you not seen the southern 80 or (all in the past now) rally australia or any other world rally around the planet- task get the piccies on the west cam - requires low level.
as the next posters mention photos lie, deceive (had a girlfriend like that once) maybe just give people a little benefit now and then (see your 407 true north comments)
PS: hope you don't come to Perth in summer and watch any helitacs having a go as next you'll have them trying to justify their existance because they'll need to drop from 1000ft + to keep you happy.
as the next posters mention photos lie, deceive (had a girlfriend like that once) maybe just give people a little benefit now and then (see your 407 true north comments)
PS: hope you don't come to Perth in summer and watch any helitacs having a go as next you'll have them trying to justify their existance because they'll need to drop from 1000ft + to keep you happy.
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You actually get specific permission to operate at these events from CASA. Flight Over Public Gathering I think is the approval and it is obtained for each individual event. It specifies how and where you may operate along with your low flying approvals etc etc.
i feel very let down 
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As already said, zoom lenses foreshorten the apparent distance between two objects.
How close are these two aircraft in the stack for Heathrow?
The DHL is at FL90 and the JAL at FL100.
How close is the vehicle to the building?
It doesn't move, but watch the focal length (bottom corner) changing.
I believe 50 mm is closest to normal vision.
FL
How close are these two aircraft in the stack for Heathrow?
The DHL is at FL90 and the JAL at FL100.
How close is the vehicle to the building?
It doesn't move, but watch the focal length (bottom corner) changing.
I believe 50 mm is closest to normal vision.
FL
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Same at any motor sports events.
TET the same low level happens at most sporting events, F1 GP at Albert Park, the bikes at 'The Island', etc and if you have at look at the AIP Supps prior to an event they often specify block levels for the camera ship, scenics and then the micro-wave up-link above that.
Then there is the get out of the way times when various MIL A/C do their recruiting routine.
The camera ship will often be at about 500' agl and trying to fly within the crowd/course.
Then there is the get out of the way times when various MIL A/C do their recruiting routine.
The camera ship will often be at about 500' agl and trying to fly within the crowd/course.
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Argumentative repetition deleted by Senior Pilot
Open discussion...sometimes I think not.
I cut you some slack before, since it was your first post to PPRuNe. I suggest that you go and read the Terms and Conditions that you agreed to when you registered on PPRuNe: if you can't accept them, there are plenty of other places you can try.
Senior Pilot
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Open discussion...sometimes I think not.
I cut you some slack before, since it was your first post to PPRuNe. I suggest that you go and read the Terms and Conditions that you agreed to when you registered on PPRuNe: if you can't accept them, there are plenty of other places you can try.
Senior Pilot
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Thanks CYHeli,
Seems everything has gotten a lot closer than during the Sydney Olympics where cameras held at the hover sometimes two miles and 1500' distant.
No doubt the ticks in all the boxes that 'squeaks' talks about would involve being able to satisfy all and sundry that suitable landing areas away from the patronage can be reached in case of the inevitable?
I did watch the race live for a short while and saw the moving shot of the same still. Thought to myself, why in damm do they need mustering pilots when cameras nowadays are so good.?????
I do suppose that the gent was a mustering rated pilot?
NigelH, where have you been? Thought of you a while back.
Some turkey was looking for a big box to park his toy in. Me not knowing much about the locality geography of old blighty said nothing. But I thought, well jeessss maybe you might have bin able to accomadate someone snuggling in beside your three blader?
Hard to have a decent bloody argument when you're not around I must say.
But no I'm not a real tree hugger as some of my colleagues might laugh about when they remember me being severely admonished for something I am positve that I would never have done about forty years ago. Mainly because Piper Tripacers don't have inverted carbies and I would never really hurt the galahs that live in trees. If I get real frustrated I can get on my own big dozer and flatten any amount of bloody trees.
Anyway back to the main 'galahs in residence' in university PPRUNE. Or more to the point, chooks.
No maaate, one thing that contributes to accidents big time is that - onetime - when someone is carried away by the 'heat' of the moment and something happens just that second when you are dragging a big bucket of water over a human obstacle. Just like EMS flights that often went wrong. There is no excuse for breaking the rules and performing those missions other than as a perfectly routine 'by the book' excercise.
Get carried away, accidents happen.
Seems everything has gotten a lot closer than during the Sydney Olympics where cameras held at the hover sometimes two miles and 1500' distant.
No doubt the ticks in all the boxes that 'squeaks' talks about would involve being able to satisfy all and sundry that suitable landing areas away from the patronage can be reached in case of the inevitable?
I did watch the race live for a short while and saw the moving shot of the same still. Thought to myself, why in damm do they need mustering pilots when cameras nowadays are so good.?????
I do suppose that the gent was a mustering rated pilot?NigelH, where have you been? Thought of you a while back.
Some turkey was looking for a big box to park his toy in. Me not knowing much about the locality geography of old blighty said nothing. But I thought, well jeessss maybe you might have bin able to accomadate someone snuggling in beside your three blader?
Hard to have a decent bloody argument when you're not around I must say.
But no I'm not a real tree hugger as some of my colleagues might laugh about when they remember me being severely admonished for something I am positve that I would never have done about forty years ago. Mainly because Piper Tripacers don't have inverted carbies and I would never really hurt the galahs that live in trees. If I get real frustrated I can get on my own big dozer and flatten any amount of bloody trees.
Anyway back to the main 'galahs in residence' in university PPRUNE. Or more to the point, chooks.
No maaate, one thing that contributes to accidents big time is that - onetime - when someone is carried away by the 'heat' of the moment and something happens just that second when you are dragging a big bucket of water over a human obstacle. Just like EMS flights that often went wrong. There is no excuse for breaking the rules and performing those missions other than as a perfectly routine 'by the book' excercise.
Get carried away, accidents happen.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 16th Oct 2008 at 21:10. Reason: 407 stuff moved to the Kimberley thread
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TET
who is carried away and breaking the rules what is that statement based on? who are you to say they are? Its a little difficult to provide objective criticsm when one is not privy to the experience, situation on the day, mandate, mindset, pilots eye view etc. As I and others have said low level phot is common. Risk is managed if you want to remove risk totally don't fly. But its reasonably disrespectful i believe to suggest people are doing things they shouldn't or pushing boundries on their mandated duties when not in that seat doing that job under those conditions that machine, his eye balled escape route etc. Why comment at all?
Look at a round of world rally in the tv and see how there is always low level shots of cars- doesn't perhaps make it right but it certainly suggests that the task requires low level flight to obtain the desired images and once again it comes back to risk management the pilot and the company and casa of course in such a public domain to manage not people who write into web sites - the first three are there the last isn't.
Beautiful bits of evidence provided by others on the way piccies are not always as they seem but still you want to go on about it and mention gallahs etc? What gives - job no good or something?
regards
13
ps i'll hand in my licence tomorrow just in case i get carried away
who is carried away and breaking the rules what is that statement based on? who are you to say they are? Its a little difficult to provide objective criticsm when one is not privy to the experience, situation on the day, mandate, mindset, pilots eye view etc. As I and others have said low level phot is common. Risk is managed if you want to remove risk totally don't fly. But its reasonably disrespectful i believe to suggest people are doing things they shouldn't or pushing boundries on their mandated duties when not in that seat doing that job under those conditions that machine, his eye balled escape route etc. Why comment at all?
Look at a round of world rally in the tv and see how there is always low level shots of cars- doesn't perhaps make it right but it certainly suggests that the task requires low level flight to obtain the desired images and once again it comes back to risk management the pilot and the company and casa of course in such a public domain to manage not people who write into web sites - the first three are there the last isn't.
Beautiful bits of evidence provided by others on the way piccies are not always as they seem but still you want to go on about it and mention gallahs etc? What gives - job no good or something?
regards
13
ps i'll hand in my licence tomorrow just in case i get carried away
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Bleed Valve
I don't think Heliair have that contract anymore. Or the Adelaide fire contract, or the pipeline contract and I have heard they are closing the doors in December. What a star old T.W. turned out to be.
I don't think Heliair have that contract anymore. Or the Adelaide fire contract, or the pipeline contract and I have heard they are closing the doors in December. What a star old T.W. turned out to be.
2 left,
Maybe there is some merit in your statement. Web site is no longer functional, with a statement that "Due to operational changes, Heli Air will no longer be accepting charter bookings."
Maybe there is some merit in your statement. Web site is no longer functional, with a statement that "Due to operational changes, Heli Air will no longer be accepting charter bookings."
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Coconutty
Very useful for casting sufficient doubt upon (and usually demolishing 
) allegations of low flying by people who had taken photographs to "prove" how close an aircraft flew to 'a person, vessel, vehicle or structure'.
I didn't encounter a single witness who knew the focal length used - even when the camera had a fixed focal length.
Probably a good thing in some cases.
These 737s appear to be flying in close formation -
They were -
Break .....
Cape Town a few weeks ago.
It was a very impressive display.
(I didn't take the pictures.)
FL
What a fantastic demonstration of the effect of focal length variation
) allegations of low flying by people who had taken photographs to "prove" how close an aircraft flew to 'a person, vessel, vehicle or structure'. I didn't encounter a single witness who knew the focal length used - even when the camera had a fixed focal length.
Probably a good thing in some cases.
These 737s appear to be flying in close formation -
They were -
Break .....
Cape Town a few weeks ago.
It was a very impressive display.
(I didn't take the pictures.)
FL
