SARH to go
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crab
Both
Lighting has been improved but needs further improvement
Software and Hardware related to full autohover modes to be certified and fitted.
"Progressing" in Italy
Less than 4 years untill EC225 or Next Marque 92
MH
Both
Lighting has been improved but needs further improvement
Software and Hardware related to full autohover modes to be certified and fitted.
"Progressing" in Italy
Less than 4 years untill EC225 or Next Marque 92
MH
Marty - thanks
3D - there is a very nice picture of you chaps rescuing the surfers at Woolacombe in the North Devon Journal today - would you like a copy?
3D - there is a very nice picture of you chaps rescuing the surfers at Woolacombe in the North Devon Journal today - would you like a copy?
Crab.
Yes please, a copy would be nice. Your local MRCC should have our address. Or post it on here?
Your question previously...
As "Marty" says, lighting is improved but waiting for more,(rear crew will be issued with ex-pussers right angle torches).
When CHC have had a whip round that is!!
Autohover... don't hold your breath, Wastelands are involved remember.
3D
Yes please, a copy would be nice. Your local MRCC should have our address. Or post it on here?
Your question previously...
As "Marty" says, lighting is improved but waiting for more,(rear crew will be issued with ex-pussers right angle torches).
When CHC have had a whip round that is!!Autohover... don't hold your breath, Wastelands are involved remember.
3D
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Age: 58
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is anyone out there able to translate SARREMF's last post into English? If so, and having done it, please only re-post if it contains anything of merit.
I get the impression something has wound him up somewhat and he let off steam after a few large glasses of pain killer.
Keep up the good work Crab
CD
I get the impression something has wound him up somewhat and he let off steam after a few large glasses of pain killer.
Keep up the good work Crab
CD
3D - here you go
I'll put the paper in the post.
I'll put the paper in the post.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london
Age: 55
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAR-H and MIRG Deployment
An etract from the BBC website:
"An RAF helicopter from Leconfield was sent along with Humber Lifeboat ready to evacuate the seven crew if required.
"The crew are all unharmed and remained on board the vessel."
The Saline is being towed by a fire tug from the port of Immingham and the Humber Lifeboat remains on standby at the scene.
A team of firefighters from Humberside Fire Service's newly-formed Maritime Incident Response Group (MIRG) were flown out to the vessel to take over the firefighting operation.
It is believed to be the first time the MIRG team has been deployed to a live incident.
Drew Mahood, watch manager at Humber Coastguard, said: "This is a good example of inter-agency working between the coastguard and the fire brigade in an emergency at sea. "Whilst there have been a number of full exercises, it is believed to be the very first time that the Humberside MIRG Team have been mobilised to an offshore incident in their response area."
Nice quote from Mr Mahood, can't help thinking he has failed to mention one organisation vital to the operation. In order to go some way to redress this omission, well done the boys and girls from Leconfield.
Does anyone know if the deployment of these MIRG teams has been included in the SAR-H contract? I believe that a MIRG team consists of 7 firemen and quite a lot of kit which would surely set a limit on how small a helicopter could be used. Would this requirement preclude any of the aircraft that would otherwise have been proposed?
HAL
"An RAF helicopter from Leconfield was sent along with Humber Lifeboat ready to evacuate the seven crew if required.
"The crew are all unharmed and remained on board the vessel."
The Saline is being towed by a fire tug from the port of Immingham and the Humber Lifeboat remains on standby at the scene.
A team of firefighters from Humberside Fire Service's newly-formed Maritime Incident Response Group (MIRG) were flown out to the vessel to take over the firefighting operation.
It is believed to be the first time the MIRG team has been deployed to a live incident.
Drew Mahood, watch manager at Humber Coastguard, said: "This is a good example of inter-agency working between the coastguard and the fire brigade in an emergency at sea. "Whilst there have been a number of full exercises, it is believed to be the very first time that the Humberside MIRG Team have been mobilised to an offshore incident in their response area."
Nice quote from Mr Mahood, can't help thinking he has failed to mention one organisation vital to the operation. In order to go some way to redress this omission, well done the boys and girls from Leconfield.
Does anyone know if the deployment of these MIRG teams has been included in the SAR-H contract? I believe that a MIRG team consists of 7 firemen and quite a lot of kit which would surely set a limit on how small a helicopter could be used. Would this requirement preclude any of the aircraft that would otherwise have been proposed?
HAL
Just to keep ALL happy the next watch manager at humber submitted the following, extract from MCA news.
The fire in the engine room of the cargo ship SALINE has now been extinguished.
The vessel, carrying Bauxite, sent a Mayday call out at 03.34hrs this morning. Humber Coastguard received the call and co-ordinated the emergency response which involved the Humber Lifeboat and a RAF helicopter from Leconfield, which flew in the MIRG team.
The MIRG team are now being taken ashore to Immingham by the Humber Lifeboat. The vessel SALINE, with its seven crew on-board is now under tow to Albert Dock, Hull by LADY STEPHANIE and tug SWITZER MOIRA.
Mike Puplett Watch Manager at Humber Coastguard said: "The joint response from HM Coastguard, Humberside Fire and Rescue, the RNLI, the RAF and the crew has led to this fire being extinguished without loss of life or injury.
The vessel only has auxiliary power as a result of the fire and is now being towed in to port. Surveyors from the Maritime and Coastguard Agency are being kept up-to-date with its progress."
The fire in the engine room of the cargo ship SALINE has now been extinguished.
The vessel, carrying Bauxite, sent a Mayday call out at 03.34hrs this morning. Humber Coastguard received the call and co-ordinated the emergency response which involved the Humber Lifeboat and a RAF helicopter from Leconfield, which flew in the MIRG team.
The MIRG team are now being taken ashore to Immingham by the Humber Lifeboat. The vessel SALINE, with its seven crew on-board is now under tow to Albert Dock, Hull by LADY STEPHANIE and tug SWITZER MOIRA.
Mike Puplett Watch Manager at Humber Coastguard said: "The joint response from HM Coastguard, Humberside Fire and Rescue, the RNLI, the RAF and the crew has led to this fire being extinguished without loss of life or injury.
The vessel only has auxiliary power as a result of the fire and is now being towed in to port. Surveyors from the Maritime and Coastguard Agency are being kept up-to-date with its progress."
Last edited by sonas; 6th Feb 2009 at 10:50. Reason: Spelling
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HAL - Deployment of MIRG teams has been considered within the SAR-H project. However, given the very low operational tempo of MIRG Teams in comparison to other SAR helicopter tasks, such as Mountain Rescue. It would not be unreasonable to expect MIRG teams to adapt their SOPs to the delivery platforms made available to them.
3D - Nice photo. Professional question: Is there a 139 specific reason for having the gear down when wet winching? (Keep the C of G low in the event of ditching, or avoid annoying audio warnings maybe)
3D - Nice photo. Professional question: Is there a 139 specific reason for having the gear down when wet winching? (Keep the C of G low in the event of ditching, or avoid annoying audio warnings maybe)
Blimps to the Rescue!
It's been done before folks!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Where the work is
Age: 53
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAR H
Arriving rather late in this discussion, couple of questions.
Why so much anti civilian bias, are not most of the civilians ex military? Do they not therefore by default have more experience? Does not having a mixed background of civilian and military bring in a broader spectrum of experience for the aircrew concerned? All of you go through the same rigorous tests every year I doubt very much if the standards are any different. In fact you could argue that the civilians have it harder as they have to do an IR. By that I mean a proper IR and before I get shouted at by the military, the civilian IR is widely regarded to be much harder than Military IR,s. If this is not the case why don’t the military take it.
Excuse my ignorance on this point and I will accept somebody shouting at me later. Are the RAF crews not exactly the same as the civilian crews in that they can expect to spend the majority if not all of their career at a SAR unit. Therefore they are the same. Some will argue more expensive because of the extra health care pensions etc that are thrown in. I believe the RN and Army move their people to the front line and therefore bring back experience.
Looking from the outside, it appears the civilian basses have significantly less manpower, therefore cheaper. They have new modern aircraft which were introduced in three months, a feat the military could not and would not achieve. No new aircraft civilian or military has ever lived up to expectations on initial introduction to service. The military mostly take years to get it in to service and very over budget. No civilian unit could accept the downtime that military aircraft routinely achieve they would go bust, they have many competitors.
Both the Civilian and the Military provide dedicated crews who are professional and equally capable. Most of the callouts, I believe some 90% , are to civilian incidents paid for by DOT and the MCA why should the Military be interested in them why don’t they concentrate on the main role war fighting and CSAR.
I would like as a tax payer the cheapest option which in my humble opinion is the civilian option or this government would not be going for it. You both achieve the same standards so I have no fear of a drop in service.
Keep up the good work and stop bitching.
Why so much anti civilian bias, are not most of the civilians ex military? Do they not therefore by default have more experience? Does not having a mixed background of civilian and military bring in a broader spectrum of experience for the aircrew concerned? All of you go through the same rigorous tests every year I doubt very much if the standards are any different. In fact you could argue that the civilians have it harder as they have to do an IR. By that I mean a proper IR and before I get shouted at by the military, the civilian IR is widely regarded to be much harder than Military IR,s. If this is not the case why don’t the military take it.
Excuse my ignorance on this point and I will accept somebody shouting at me later. Are the RAF crews not exactly the same as the civilian crews in that they can expect to spend the majority if not all of their career at a SAR unit. Therefore they are the same. Some will argue more expensive because of the extra health care pensions etc that are thrown in. I believe the RN and Army move their people to the front line and therefore bring back experience.
Looking from the outside, it appears the civilian basses have significantly less manpower, therefore cheaper. They have new modern aircraft which were introduced in three months, a feat the military could not and would not achieve. No new aircraft civilian or military has ever lived up to expectations on initial introduction to service. The military mostly take years to get it in to service and very over budget. No civilian unit could accept the downtime that military aircraft routinely achieve they would go bust, they have many competitors.
Both the Civilian and the Military provide dedicated crews who are professional and equally capable. Most of the callouts, I believe some 90% , are to civilian incidents paid for by DOT and the MCA why should the Military be interested in them why don’t they concentrate on the main role war fighting and CSAR.
I would like as a tax payer the cheapest option which in my humble opinion is the civilian option or this government would not be going for it. You both achieve the same standards so I have no fear of a drop in service.
Keep up the good work and stop bitching.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london
Age: 55
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too Quick to Pounce
Sonas,
Fair point, I was a bit too quick to criticise. Can men be pre-menstrual?
Rottweiler,
It would have been worth reading this thread from the start as I fear you have just kicked off a long journey around a very familiar buoy!
Regards,
HAL
Fair point, I was a bit too quick to criticise. Can men be pre-menstrual?
Rottweiler,
It would have been worth reading this thread from the start as I fear you have just kicked off a long journey around a very familiar buoy!
Regards,
HAL
Rottweiler:
Initial issue ME IR(H), as done with the CAA, is no more difficult than a mil IR just different. Most mil guys will agree that the CAA IR is difficult, but that is because:
1. Minimum hours in training beforehand because you are paying for it...
2. ...leading to mininal hours in an unfamiliar aircraft.
3. Working single pilot as opposed to 2 pilot (unless you are 32 Sqn)
Once you have crossed that particular hurdle, company IRs are no more difficult than a mil IR. In fact they lack the stab out, limited panel, SE approach that I used to love so much...!
I refer you to the introduction to service of the 412 in Cyprus - accomplished in 6 months! (although not without its problems, but that's another thread altogether) as a counter to (one of) your points
Initial issue ME IR(H), as done with the CAA, is no more difficult than a mil IR just different. Most mil guys will agree that the CAA IR is difficult, but that is because:
1. Minimum hours in training beforehand because you are paying for it...
2. ...leading to mininal hours in an unfamiliar aircraft.
3. Working single pilot as opposed to 2 pilot (unless you are 32 Sqn)
Once you have crossed that particular hurdle, company IRs are no more difficult than a mil IR. In fact they lack the stab out, limited panel, SE approach that I used to love so much...!
I refer you to the introduction to service of the 412 in Cyprus - accomplished in 6 months! (although not without its problems, but that's another thread altogether) as a counter to (one of) your points
Rottweiler - the short answer to your question is that training costs money so the civilian SAR guys do less of it than we do. They have a lot of experience to draw on but that is only sustainable when there is a constant outflow of ex mil guys into civsar.
SARH will be more expensive than the current civsar contract because all the training burden will fall to the contractor and there will be more training required to cater for the increase in night overland SAROPs requiring NVG capability.
As for aircraft - the 139 still does not have a night autohover capability which, coupled with the contractor's decision to equip both English Channel bases with them, means the nearest aircraft are Chivenor, Wattisham or France to cover one of the busiest waterways in the world. But it's OK it's cheap
SARH will be more expensive than the current civsar contract because all the training burden will fall to the contractor and there will be more training required to cater for the increase in night overland SAROPs requiring NVG capability.
As for aircraft - the 139 still does not have a night autohover capability which, coupled with the contractor's decision to equip both English Channel bases with them, means the nearest aircraft are Chivenor, Wattisham or France to cover one of the busiest waterways in the world. But it's OK it's cheap
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Where the work is
Age: 53
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aw 139
Can not argue with the limited capability of the 139. Would suggest that the next contract whoever gets it the 139 will not be in it.
However its introduction to service has been a lot less troublesome than most if not all of the recent military fiascos. Nimrod, EH101,Eurofighter, to name but a few. Also I would suggest their cost over runs are insignificant in comparison. Once again being a tax payer i am not interested in your entrenched views I want as much for my money as i can get.
The Military is doing a fantastic job under difficult circumstances with a government that wants to penny pinch at every turn. Start spending your limited budget where it is meant to be spent. I expect military personnel to be on the front line that’s what you get paid for. How can you justify getting the same wage as somebody who is being shot at, killed and maimed. It appears to me that your overriding priority is for it to remain in military control at all costs regardless of what is best for the country.
However its introduction to service has been a lot less troublesome than most if not all of the recent military fiascos. Nimrod, EH101,Eurofighter, to name but a few. Also I would suggest their cost over runs are insignificant in comparison. Once again being a tax payer i am not interested in your entrenched views I want as much for my money as i can get.
The Military is doing a fantastic job under difficult circumstances with a government that wants to penny pinch at every turn. Start spending your limited budget where it is meant to be spent. I expect military personnel to be on the front line that’s what you get paid for. How can you justify getting the same wage as somebody who is being shot at, killed and maimed. It appears to me that your overriding priority is for it to remain in military control at all costs regardless of what is best for the country.
Last edited by rottweiler; 8th Feb 2009 at 14:11.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monde
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this a wind up?
Rottweiler - we're all taxpayers. If you want to get stroppy about wastage, go and annoy someone in Whitehall about the civil service, schools, social services or hospitals and in the meantime, stop referring to hard working professionals as, "my military personnel".
If you want "as much for your money as you can get", go for a nice long swim in the sea tonight. It'll do you some good.
If you're lucky, someone will come and get you. If you're really lucky, they'll be well trained.
Rottweiler - we're all taxpayers. If you want to get stroppy about wastage, go and annoy someone in Whitehall about the civil service, schools, social services or hospitals and in the meantime, stop referring to hard working professionals as, "my military personnel".
If you want "as much for your money as you can get", go for a nice long swim in the sea tonight. It'll do you some good.
If you're lucky, someone will come and get you. If you're really lucky, they'll be well trained.
Crab,
Has civvie Sar failed in a mission yet?
If not.....perhaps their standard meets the necessary requirements.
The absence of Night SAR capability is antoher question altogether as it is about capability and not training.
The question that is begged is what happens down the road...years down the road if the Civvie SAR does finally get that night capability but has not done any or done any training for that mission. Then what problems will have to be confronted?
Has civvie Sar failed in a mission yet?
If not.....perhaps their standard meets the necessary requirements.
The absence of Night SAR capability is antoher question altogether as it is about capability and not training.
The question that is begged is what happens down the road...years down the road if the Civvie SAR does finally get that night capability but has not done any or done any training for that mission. Then what problems will have to be confronted?