SARH to go
3D - Happy New Year chap. No - the MIRG requirement is just one more thing that those highly paid people who get to control things forgot to think about and another indicator of how unjoined-up the UK's Emergency Services response to anything is.
However, I probably wasn't the only one who was surprised that Lee and Portland didn't get at least 1 S-92 between them - if nothing else it would have saved that embarassing use of the non-auto hover S61's for night-time shifts in the Channel. CHC couldn't even give a guaranteed night wet winching capability after they had screwed up on the 139! I am sure you boys were pulling your hair out in frustration.
However, I probably wasn't the only one who was surprised that Lee and Portland didn't get at least 1 S-92 between them - if nothing else it would have saved that embarassing use of the non-auto hover S61's for night-time shifts in the Channel. CHC couldn't even give a guaranteed night wet winching capability after they had screwed up on the 139! I am sure you boys were pulling your hair out in frustration.
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Happy New Year to the SAR community
Fot those who follow ths thread but are not from an SAR background: MIRG stands for Maritime Incident Response Group and is a UK offshore firefighting capability, primarily designed to be delivered by SAR helicopter.
Does anyone have the factual reason for the MIRGs no longer wishing to use the 139? Just interested as I know that they were considered in the procurement process and that they saw the layouts of the aircraft interior at a meeting in North Denes before the aircraft came into service. They were informed at that time that, if required, their deployment from the South Coast would be via two AW139 lifts.
My personal opinion is that I have never been a great fan of their capability. They must be very well funded if they can 'stand up' fifteen offshore firefighting teams, each with a cadre of fifty trained firefighters and pay the MOD and MCA for an allocation of training hours. All of this for a capability that in its three years of existance has been to (I believe) three offshore fires. I think that UK plc might have been better served to have that money spent in other more 'acute' areas of the emergency services.
Fot those who follow ths thread but are not from an SAR background: MIRG stands for Maritime Incident Response Group and is a UK offshore firefighting capability, primarily designed to be delivered by SAR helicopter.
Does anyone have the factual reason for the MIRGs no longer wishing to use the 139? Just interested as I know that they were considered in the procurement process and that they saw the layouts of the aircraft interior at a meeting in North Denes before the aircraft came into service. They were informed at that time that, if required, their deployment from the South Coast would be via two AW139 lifts.
My personal opinion is that I have never been a great fan of their capability. They must be very well funded if they can 'stand up' fifteen offshore firefighting teams, each with a cadre of fifty trained firefighters and pay the MOD and MCA for an allocation of training hours. All of this for a capability that in its three years of existance has been to (I believe) three offshore fires. I think that UK plc might have been better served to have that money spent in other more 'acute' areas of the emergency services.
Max - so well funded they have publicly declared that the Fire and Rescue Service should have its own helicopters!!! Quite what they think they would do with them is anyones' guess.
It very much sounds like empire building. I agree with you wholeheartedly re; allocation of taxpayers money in the Emergency Services.
Is MIRG a white elephant? Most merchant vessels are well-equipped to help themselves or others when dealing with fire at sea and the RNLI lifeboats have plenty of firefighting capability for smaller vessels. You can't legislate for another Piper Alpha and anyway what use would a MIRG team have been then?
It very much sounds like empire building. I agree with you wholeheartedly re; allocation of taxpayers money in the Emergency Services.
Is MIRG a white elephant? Most merchant vessels are well-equipped to help themselves or others when dealing with fire at sea and the RNLI lifeboats have plenty of firefighting capability for smaller vessels. You can't legislate for another Piper Alpha and anyway what use would a MIRG team have been then?
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.........ah... if only we lived in a perfect world......
....... we would find that not only are the police helicopters and the air ambulances co-located (security issues having been taken care of of course) but they just happen to be co-located with a combined ambulance station and fire station...... and where feasible the SAR unit can take advantage of the economies of scale.
Surely scope exists within the manning of said multi-tasking units to share pilots, share training, share back seat personnel (paramedics, winch wigglers and dangly people).
Now of course it would help to find one or two types to suit all but that would be one wish too far.
Why is it that the most nanniest of governments that sets out to control the way we do just about anything hasn't got the balls to bang a few heads together ands say "cut the crap - you get this or nothing, now STFU and get on with it".
They wont of course because the Fire Brigades Union is too strong and the Ambulance people think they are a superior breed plus each Chief Constable thinks he is entitled to run his own little empire.
When it comes to equipment we could take a lead from the Italians of course..... they wouldn't dream of using anything other than Italian made equipment - regardless of just about any other consideration. As the AW group is at least part Brit that would leave us with:-
AW109 - for the puddle-jumping jobs
AW 139 - for the channel-hoping jobs, and the
AW101 - for ocean-going adventures
Jaguars/Vauxhall/Ford/Nissan/Honda for the cops
Ford/DAF trucks for the Ambulance Service
Dennis for the Fire service
We can always dream I suppose.
G
Surely scope exists within the manning of said multi-tasking units to share pilots, share training, share back seat personnel (paramedics, winch wigglers and dangly people).
Now of course it would help to find one or two types to suit all but that would be one wish too far.
Why is it that the most nanniest of governments that sets out to control the way we do just about anything hasn't got the balls to bang a few heads together ands say "cut the crap - you get this or nothing, now STFU and get on with it".
They wont of course because the Fire Brigades Union is too strong and the Ambulance people think they are a superior breed plus each Chief Constable thinks he is entitled to run his own little empire.
When it comes to equipment we could take a lead from the Italians of course..... they wouldn't dream of using anything other than Italian made equipment - regardless of just about any other consideration. As the AW group is at least part Brit that would leave us with:-
AW109 - for the puddle-jumping jobs
AW 139 - for the channel-hoping jobs, and the
AW101 - for ocean-going adventures
Jaguars/Vauxhall/Ford/Nissan/Honda for the cops
Ford/DAF trucks for the Ambulance Service
Dennis for the Fire service
We can always dream I suppose.
G
Geoffers,
"bang a few heads together and say "cut the crap - you get this or nothing, now STFU and get on with it".
Nice idea but it is the job of most of the idiots in government to invent the "crap" in the first place and they are hardly likely to be doing anything that would put their own jobs on the line ~ sadly!
"bang a few heads together and say "cut the crap - you get this or nothing, now STFU and get on with it".
Nice idea but it is the job of most of the idiots in government to invent the "crap" in the first place and they are hardly likely to be doing anything that would put their own jobs on the line ~ sadly!
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Reduction in RAF Crew Numbers
Was it this thread that mentioned some time ago about a reduction in the number of RAF SAR crews? Apologies if this has already been covered but 30+ pages was too much to wade through post by post (I did use the search function).
Was the rumour false or, if true, has it been dropped; could anyone provide an update?
Thanks and HNY
CR
Was the rumour false or, if true, has it been dropped; could anyone provide an update?
Thanks and HNY
CR
reduction in the number of RAF SAR crews
The likely result is that UK SAR coverage will be compromised.
And you have to add in the Out Of Area detachments supported by the SARF.
We are very short of rearcrew, so short that we operated 3 shifts over Christmas at Chiv with only 12 hour cover from 0800 to 2000. The shortage is partly due to the pull from civvie St caused by the uncertainty of the future of milSAR, partly from the problems of moving the OCU and its poor serviceability, partly from slow throughput from SARTU and partly due to non-existent career management.
The genius Air-rank officers who foisted the crew reduction on us were quite happy to 'take at risk' the fact that not only 2nd standby capability but 1st standby capability would be affected. It just goes to show how little the contribution of the SARF is aknowledged or valued by our 'Air Power centric' senior management.
We are very short of rearcrew, so short that we operated 3 shifts over Christmas at Chiv with only 12 hour cover from 0800 to 2000. The shortage is partly due to the pull from civvie St caused by the uncertainty of the future of milSAR, partly from the problems of moving the OCU and its poor serviceability, partly from slow throughput from SARTU and partly due to non-existent career management.
The genius Air-rank officers who foisted the crew reduction on us were quite happy to 'take at risk' the fact that not only 2nd standby capability but 1st standby capability would be affected. It just goes to show how little the contribution of the SARF is aknowledged or valued by our 'Air Power centric' senior management.
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It seems their Airships are able to vary service levels in a way a private contractor could not do.
Perhaps the Crown should privitise the whole service and a government department who cares about it, say the coastguard, become the customer?
Perhaps the Crown should privitise the whole service and a government department who cares about it, say the coastguard, become the customer?
The Govt still has to pay for it whichever way you spin it and the Govt are the ones who have us fighting on 2 fronts whilst cutting defence spending.
Maybe the only answer is SARH and effectively privatisation but the interim contract, seen by many as a trial run for the full event, has hardly been an overwhelming success - we still don't have the required level of cover in the Channel.
The MCA don't really understand helicopters and the variations of performance/capability so any future contractor must demonstrate integrity so that they are not guilty of pulling the wool over the customers eyes just to tick contractual boxes.
The trouble is that the present incumbent has already tripped over that hurdle and the remaining competitor is untried and untested in the field. Oh Dear!
Maybe the only answer is SARH and effectively privatisation but the interim contract, seen by many as a trial run for the full event, has hardly been an overwhelming success - we still don't have the required level of cover in the Channel.
The MCA don't really understand helicopters and the variations of performance/capability so any future contractor must demonstrate integrity so that they are not guilty of pulling the wool over the customers eyes just to tick contractual boxes.
The trouble is that the present incumbent has already tripped over that hurdle and the remaining competitor is untried and untested in the field. Oh Dear!
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Afternoon crab, with the CG out of the picture for transporting firefighting crews and St. Mawgan finished, i know it was OCU, but a/c available. What resources are available from the RAF and or Navy to cover the Channel at the present? Just interested to know, timescales etc, regards, thorpey.
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What resources are available from the RAF and or Navy to cover the Channel
Wattisham and Culdrose would be the nearest bases but I hear that they are short on crew numbers?
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Thorpey
Sorry mon ami, but as a Channel Islander, I am afraid that for SAR purposes you are effectively French as the Channel Islands sit outside of the UK Search and Rescue Region. The MIRGs may have formally declared a capability to get to the Channel Islands but the UK SAR helicopters, that they rely on for transport, have not.
Sorry mon ami, but as a Channel Islander, I am afraid that for SAR purposes you are effectively French as the Channel Islands sit outside of the UK Search and Rescue Region. The MIRGs may have formally declared a capability to get to the Channel Islands but the UK SAR helicopters, that they rely on for transport, have not.
Wattisham and Culdrose would be the nearest bases
short on crew numbers
Just out of interest, does anyone have information on how decisive a role the MIRG teams played at the 3 incidents to which they have apparently responded so far? For the record, I'm not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested.
Culdrose haven't had a 2nd standby available for months due to crew shortages and we are struggling as well at the moment. However, both 1st standby crews already cover a lot of the Channel (we cover the West of Portland's patch when they are tucked up in bed
)
As far as the MIRG crews go, the only training they do with us is being winched to the ships (ferries usually), I don't know how much specific fire-fighting at sea training they get.
)As far as the MIRG crews go, the only training they do with us is being winched to the ships (ferries usually), I don't know how much specific fire-fighting at sea training they get.