SARH to go
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Doing SAR somewhere.
Can somebody tell me what is the "kind of missing kit or equipment" is preventing the AW139 perform SAR missions by night?
I am quite interestings since we are flying that type of helo by night doing such mission.
Thx
I am quite interestings since we are flying that type of helo by night doing such mission.
Thx
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: South Coast
SARH to go??????
Was started by Faffner shim on the 16 Jun O8, the link below from todays Mail on Sunday takes us back to where the link started.
hhttp://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...bid.htmlttp:// Basically the "UK Air Rescue" bid have withdrawn from the bidding process.
What do you honorable PPRuners think of this? Where does the process go from here?
Was started by Faffner shim on the 16 Jun O8, the link below from todays Mail on Sunday takes us back to where the link started.
hhttp://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...bid.htmlttp:// Basically the "UK Air Rescue" bid have withdrawn from the bidding process.
What do you honorable PPRuners think of this? Where does the process go from here?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: South Coast
Yuk got the link wrong.........sorry
Ł2bn search-and-rescue sell-off plan under threat after UK-led contender withdraws its bid | Mail Online
Ł2bn search-and-rescue sell-off plan under threat after UK-led contender withdraws its bid | Mail Online
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 367
Likes: 7
From: Land of the Angles
Blackmail and intrigue eh! Nothing like a good bit of scandal in a bid.
BroadlyGuns News
British SAR Chaos
October 27th, 2008
Cash strapped Blair Brown Regime has been trying to privatize British helicopter SAR coverage, including cover in the Falklands Islands, to avoid having to fund 40 new helicopters to replace the aging Sea Kings flown by RAF, FAA and MSA crews.
The British consortium, including Bristow and Agusta Westland, have withdrawn from bidding and stories are circulating that the two foreign bidders are considering withdrawal unless the value of the PFI contract is significantly increased.
The story also circulating is that Regime is attempting to blackmail the British consortium into re-entering the bidding by threatening that the companies making up the consortium will be blackballed from bidding for any other British Government contracts in the future unless they re-enter the bidding for this contentious PFI contract.
BroadlyGuns News
British SAR Chaos
October 27th, 2008
Cash strapped Blair Brown Regime has been trying to privatize British helicopter SAR coverage, including cover in the Falklands Islands, to avoid having to fund 40 new helicopters to replace the aging Sea Kings flown by RAF, FAA and MSA crews.
The British consortium, including Bristow and Agusta Westland, have withdrawn from bidding and stories are circulating that the two foreign bidders are considering withdrawal unless the value of the PFI contract is significantly increased.
The story also circulating is that Regime is attempting to blackmail the British consortium into re-entering the bidding by threatening that the companies making up the consortium will be blackballed from bidding for any other British Government contracts in the future unless they re-enter the bidding for this contentious PFI contract.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Monde
Victor Papa
As any Puma crewman will tell you (or, I imagine, any AW139 crewman will tell you after couple of years on type), trying to operate in an aircraft with a low cabin will, in time, completely wreck your knees and back. There's more than just hoist operating to be done by the rearcrew so it's over-simplistic to state that you, "could not stand in the S61 doing hoisting", therefore the EC225 will be ok. Whether squatting or kneeling, a degenerative musculo-skeletal price will inevitably be paid by the individual who has to move around on his haunches and manhandle people and heavy kit without being able to straighten his legs or spine. A SAR aircraft has to please more than just the driver you know!
As any Puma crewman will tell you (or, I imagine, any AW139 crewman will tell you after couple of years on type), trying to operate in an aircraft with a low cabin will, in time, completely wreck your knees and back. There's more than just hoist operating to be done by the rearcrew so it's over-simplistic to state that you, "could not stand in the S61 doing hoisting", therefore the EC225 will be ok. Whether squatting or kneeling, a degenerative musculo-skeletal price will inevitably be paid by the individual who has to move around on his haunches and manhandle people and heavy kit without being able to straighten his legs or spine. A SAR aircraft has to please more than just the driver you know!
Last edited by Vie sans frontieres; 28th October 2008 at 10:38. Reason: Not cleared solo cutting & pasting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Up North
Could'nt agree more VSF. Having done time on the Puma I had both back and knee trouble and that was just in the basic crewman role. As you say a good SAR helicopter has to cater for everyone on the crew not just the bells and whistles for the drivers.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: foot of a mountain
I did not mean to upset anyone. I am not just interested in the bells and whistles-quite the contrary. The main argument I have heard against the 332 and/or 225 is the cabin height. My only point was that myself and quite a few other crewman have the knee and backs to show years of ship service and SAR even in the good old 61.
From what I see on these forums there are problems with the 139's, 92's and even the ageing Sea Kings. The discussions mostly go around these types and their problems as well as the aircraft reliability, cost and maintainability and then of course it's operational capability impacting on this tender. I have actually just been wondering, as posted, why the 225 is not mentioned because the forums are rather quiet about it's performance/problems etc.
From what I see on these forums there are problems with the 139's, 92's and even the ageing Sea Kings. The discussions mostly go around these types and their problems as well as the aircraft reliability, cost and maintainability and then of course it's operational capability impacting on this tender. I have actually just been wondering, as posted, why the 225 is not mentioned because the forums are rather quiet about it's performance/problems etc.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale Rest Home for the Elderly
332/225 Oh my aching back.
It is mentioned but accurate information from those involved in the bidding is commercially sensitive so they are not going to comment here. I wouldn't be surprised to see that it is part of the solution from one of the two remaining bidders. From a crewmans point of view the cabin is very low, however, it does have many other good qualities, chiefly the AFCS and the performance. Unfortunately crewmen, or ex-crewmen, don't get to choose.
You haven't upset anyone, you would have to try a lot harder than that on this forum.
I did not mean to upset anyone
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Furia - as I understand it the main problem was inadequate lighting under the aircraft so the winch op can see the casualty and winchman. There is also an issue, I gather, with the UK CAA certification of the SAR modes of the 4 axis autopilot so it can't be used in anger.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Perth, Australia
As an interested observer from a long way away, what do you mean that the UK CAA won't authorise the 4 axis a/pilot. Isn't it JAA or EASA (or whatever Europe is called these days) approved/authorised/ticked-in-the-box the a/pilot so how come the UK CAA can overule this? I'm just comparing beaucracies so not having a go at anyone.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 912
Likes: 1
From: UK
The basic 4 axis aoutopilot was certificated by the FAA in March but there are "add-ons "for the SAR mode.I think that is what phase 5 is all about and this is not certified yet .Am I right those who know the AW139 intimately ?
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: South West Scotland
Taken from EDP 24
Over-stretched RAF search and rescue helicopter crews have been unable to respond to some emergency calls in Norfolk and Suffolk because of a lack of manpower, it has emerged.
The two Sea King helicopters based at Wattisham airfield in Suffolk are crewed by members of B Flight 22 Squadron but many of the servicemen have recently been posted overseas to Iraq and Afghanistan, making it difficult to keep a full crew on stand-by.
At its worst, this means that the helicopters cannot go out to rescue people people who are stuck on boats or trapped in water and in the last week, search and rescue cover for the area was maintained by a unit from east Yorkshire.
The two helicopters perform search and rescue operations covering a huge area from the south coast and Dover into London and across East Anglia to the Wash.
Flt Lt Jean-Marc David of 22 Squadron said: “Crews are working very hard at the moment and doing more shifts than comfortable and sometimes we do not have enough full crew on stand-by so we are limited on what jobs we can do.
“Obviously we have got a few detachments in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have got a lack of manpower. Nobody wants the standby to be affected and that is our job.
“We are there to rescue people and people are doing more shifts than they really should do. It is not ideal but everybody is working extremely hard to make sure that we can provide a service that the public expect of us.”
They average more than 10 emergency call-outs a month which can include people being helped, rescued and transferred to hospital.
A Ministry of Defence spokesperson said: “A current shortage of rear winch men at Wattisham was exacerbated by sickness last week and so for two short periods on October 22 and 24 B Flight 22 Squadron search and rescue were restricted to medical evacuation sorties only.
“During both these periods search and rescue cover for the area was maintained by adjacent search and rescue units at Leconfield as is standard practice when a unit is airborne on a rescue or temporarily unable to deploy.
“We are working hard to ensure that there are sufficiently trained search and rescue aircrew coming through the Sea King operational conversion unit to ensure that this temporary rear crew shortage can be alleviated as soon as possible.”
The search and rescue squadrons provide 24-hour cover. They maintain a 15-minute readiness state during daylight hours and a 45-minutes readiness state during the hours of darkness.
Over-stretched RAF search and rescue helicopter crews have been unable to respond to some emergency calls in Norfolk and Suffolk because of a lack of manpower, it has emerged.
The two Sea King helicopters based at Wattisham airfield in Suffolk are crewed by members of B Flight 22 Squadron but many of the servicemen have recently been posted overseas to Iraq and Afghanistan, making it difficult to keep a full crew on stand-by.
At its worst, this means that the helicopters cannot go out to rescue people people who are stuck on boats or trapped in water and in the last week, search and rescue cover for the area was maintained by a unit from east Yorkshire.
The two helicopters perform search and rescue operations covering a huge area from the south coast and Dover into London and across East Anglia to the Wash.
Flt Lt Jean-Marc David of 22 Squadron said: “Crews are working very hard at the moment and doing more shifts than comfortable and sometimes we do not have enough full crew on stand-by so we are limited on what jobs we can do.
“Obviously we have got a few detachments in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have got a lack of manpower. Nobody wants the standby to be affected and that is our job.
“We are there to rescue people and people are doing more shifts than they really should do. It is not ideal but everybody is working extremely hard to make sure that we can provide a service that the public expect of us.”
They average more than 10 emergency call-outs a month which can include people being helped, rescued and transferred to hospital.
A Ministry of Defence spokesperson said: “A current shortage of rear winch men at Wattisham was exacerbated by sickness last week and so for two short periods on October 22 and 24 B Flight 22 Squadron search and rescue were restricted to medical evacuation sorties only.
“During both these periods search and rescue cover for the area was maintained by adjacent search and rescue units at Leconfield as is standard practice when a unit is airborne on a rescue or temporarily unable to deploy.
“We are working hard to ensure that there are sufficiently trained search and rescue aircrew coming through the Sea King operational conversion unit to ensure that this temporary rear crew shortage can be alleviated as soon as possible.”
The search and rescue squadrons provide 24-hour cover. They maintain a 15-minute readiness state during daylight hours and a 45-minutes readiness state during the hours of darkness.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Monde
Jean-Marc, go to the Flt Cdr's office, do not pass go, do not pick up the fluids or a set of goggles!
It's hardly headline news for the RAF SAR Force to be struggling for personnel. It's just every now and again someone informs the media and it gets blown out of proportion. Imagine how moist the media would get if they were informed every time a flight was off-state.
It's hardly headline news for the RAF SAR Force to be struggling for personnel. It's just every now and again someone informs the media and it gets blown out of proportion. Imagine how moist the media would get if they were informed every time a flight was off-state.