from H-300 to R22
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300 flying near Milano
Matteolo,
I notice your location is Milano. I have just moved near Milano to work and have been trying to find a 300 to continue flying, so far I have only found R22's in this area.
I'd be grateful for any advice as to where I might find one and how much it is likely to cost over here.
Good luck in SA!
Nobby
I notice your location is Milano. I have just moved near Milano to work and have been trying to find a 300 to continue flying, so far I have only found R22's in this area.
I'd be grateful for any advice as to where I might find one and how much it is likely to cost over here.
Good luck in SA!
Nobby
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I earned my PPL exclusively in an H300C and went to the R22 for my CPL. I found that the R22 required more quick and precise cyclic inputs than the H300 with lateral pendulum motion being more noticeable. The R22 governer was a welcomed feature and I seem to remember the R22 having a bit more tail rotor authority.
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I did about 20 hours in a S269CBi and found it (relatively) easy to fly.
When I stepped into a 22 for the next part of my training, I had the same confidence and promptly tried to crash into everything within 100 metres.
Mrs Fission was watching and she thought there had been a control failure. Fortunately I had a very good instructor who saved my life that day !!!
I stand by the phrase 'if you can fly a R22, you can fly anything' - nothing in my career has been as challenging
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When I stepped into a 22 for the next part of my training, I had the same confidence and promptly tried to crash into everything within 100 metres.
Mrs Fission was watching and she thought there had been a control failure. Fortunately I had a very good instructor who saved my life that day !!!
I stand by the phrase 'if you can fly a R22, you can fly anything' - nothing in my career has been as challenging
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Twitchy f%cker
I've just changed from the 300 to the 22 mid way through my CPL training.
The 22 is a twitchy f%cker
, and after the first hour I felt like 45 hours ago when I'd jumped into a chopper for the first time from the plank. The 22 seems to require much faster cyclic corrections than the 300, but has the same lag in the reponse, so while you're learning to get the timing right, the oscillations are like when you first learned to hover.. I'm getting the hang of it after two hours in it, but I suspect it'll be another one or two at least until I feel as confident as in the 300.
I would absolutely recommend everyone to train on at least two machines, including the R22, it would have to make you a more versatile and thus better pilot.
The 22 is a twitchy f%cker
, and after the first hour I felt like 45 hours ago when I'd jumped into a chopper for the first time from the plank. The 22 seems to require much faster cyclic corrections than the 300, but has the same lag in the reponse, so while you're learning to get the timing right, the oscillations are like when you first learned to hover.. I'm getting the hang of it after two hours in it, but I suspect it'll be another one or two at least until I feel as confident as in the 300.I would absolutely recommend everyone to train on at least two machines, including the R22, it would have to make you a more versatile and thus better pilot.
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2 Cents
I did my PPL in the H300 and then did IR/CPL in the 22 and 44. Here are my thoughts on the two.
H300 -
The good - Very stable. Very forgiving. Easy energy management in the rotors during auto rotation. Handles high (20-30kt) winds well.
The bad - Long start up and shut down. No governor. Seats are more upright which is uncomfortable after a long flight.
R22/44 -
The good - Has a governor. Fast top speed. Quick start up and shut down. Comfortable seat position. Can store things under the seat. Very effective tail rotor.
The bad - Very sensitive controls (requires finesse). Energy management more difficult (rotor speed increases/decreases rapidly in autorotation). Harder to handle in higher winds.
From my experience, the H300 is much easier to learn on. During my transition to the 22/44 after getting my PPL, I felt like a brand new student again. It was rather difficult to learn to hover and become comfortable with it. However, once I became comfortable with the robbie, I found I really enjoy it. It is great helicopter. Both helis have the ups and downs.
In short, the 300 is easier to handle while being forgiving, and the 22/44 is fast and comfortable but requires more skill from the pilot.
-cheers
---sidenote, the 44 is easier to manage rotor rpm than the 22---
H300 -
The good - Very stable. Very forgiving. Easy energy management in the rotors during auto rotation. Handles high (20-30kt) winds well.
The bad - Long start up and shut down. No governor. Seats are more upright which is uncomfortable after a long flight.
R22/44 -
The good - Has a governor. Fast top speed. Quick start up and shut down. Comfortable seat position. Can store things under the seat. Very effective tail rotor.
The bad - Very sensitive controls (requires finesse). Energy management more difficult (rotor speed increases/decreases rapidly in autorotation). Harder to handle in higher winds.
From my experience, the H300 is much easier to learn on. During my transition to the 22/44 after getting my PPL, I felt like a brand new student again. It was rather difficult to learn to hover and become comfortable with it. However, once I became comfortable with the robbie, I found I really enjoy it. It is great helicopter. Both helis have the ups and downs.
In short, the 300 is easier to handle while being forgiving, and the 22/44 is fast and comfortable but requires more skill from the pilot.
-cheers
---sidenote, the 44 is easier to manage rotor rpm than the 22---
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Helipilot1982, I have to pass from the 300 to the 22 for the same reason.
...hour bulding...
...I am happy to see that someone have done that successfully before me!!
....so it will not be impossible...!!!!
...hour bulding...
...I am happy to see that someone have done that successfully before me!!
....so it will not be impossible...!!!!
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I dont think the 300 takes much longer to startup/shutdown. Both take the same time to engage the clutch. The 300 needs a 3 minute cooldown (2 mins at 2500 and 1 min at 2000 if i remember), the R22 needs 2 mins (at 75%). Hardly a "long" time.
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Long time
I consider the shutdown to take longer in the 300 because it doesn't have a rotor break. The start up is about the same but the shutdown is noticeably shorter in the 22.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Choose your poison.
If you learn on a fuel injected aircraft and move to a carb you WILL forget the carb heat, probably more than once.
If you learn with the governor and move to an ungoverned type you WILL get into a low RPM situation and quite probably an overspeed situation if the correlator is so set up. (Not at the same time though).
I'm sure there are plenty more of these catches too. Under stress its all to easy to go back to procedures that are correct for the type you learned on, not the aircraft you're currently flying.
In all probability you will get away with the above occasional brain glitches but be aware that the accident reports are full of new to type pilots.
If you learn on a fuel injected aircraft and move to a carb you WILL forget the carb heat, probably more than once.
If you learn with the governor and move to an ungoverned type you WILL get into a low RPM situation and quite probably an overspeed situation if the correlator is so set up. (Not at the same time though).
I'm sure there are plenty more of these catches too. Under stress its all to easy to go back to procedures that are correct for the type you learned on, not the aircraft you're currently flying.
In all probability you will get away with the above occasional brain glitches but be aware that the accident reports are full of new to type pilots.
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Gaseous - excellent point
I did my PPL in the 22 then took the 44 type rating soon after qualifying. Whenever i fly the fuel injected 44 i always look for the carb heat prior to descent out of habit.
Not sure whether it would be lodged so heavily in my brain if i did things the other way round.
I would welcome the opportunity to try the 300 but round our way its all 22's.
I did my PPL in the 22 then took the 44 type rating soon after qualifying. Whenever i fly the fuel injected 44 i always look for the carb heat prior to descent out of habit.
Not sure whether it would be lodged so heavily in my brain if i did things the other way round.
I would welcome the opportunity to try the 300 but round our way its all 22's.
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Raven 11 you are having a laugh, preferring to be in an R22 than in a 300 if the engine quits?????? There is absolutly no comparision, the 300 is far far superior to an R22 in auto and touch down. I will show you an engine off landing in nil wind with a 300 ask how many instructors will do that in a 22
Hi Hughes500. how many hours do you have in 22 and 300. I bet you got much more in 300. Which Heli you prefer for fulldowns dependes to a hight degree on your experience on the type. Sure the 22 has less inertia but that doesn´t make it an unsafe helicopter. It requires a different technique - sure. Personally I choose the R22 also. Even after I have done fulldowns in both! Because the glide is qiute a factor in an single engine
. How many emergency spots do you find in mountains like the cascades or over a city?
So back to the initial post. I think it is much better to start on R22 and then transition to the H300. You want to be a skilled pilot? Then you have to look for the best training and not for the fastest! You will last much longer if you take the challange that the R22 offers rather then setting a record for the "lowest flight time required" during initial training.
For you matteolo, I can tell you from excessiv instructor experience that the pilots who trained on the R22 had no issues converting into other (heavier) helicopters. The R22 is a light aircraft and requires permanent control inputs but that trains you for your life as a professional pilot. You have no reason to be scared of the R22. It has a main- and tail rotor and the laws of Newton and Co apply as well. I will take a few houres untill your hover is as stable as it is in the 300 right now but that is it. Your reflexes to the "Low rpm warning system" in the 22 will need to develop also. But the only way to lern to fly is to fly.
Hi Hughes500. how many hours do you have in 22 and 300. I bet you got much more in 300. Which Heli you prefer for fulldowns dependes to a hight degree on your experience on the type. Sure the 22 has less inertia but that doesn´t make it an unsafe helicopter. It requires a different technique - sure. Personally I choose the R22 also. Even after I have done fulldowns in both! Because the glide is qiute a factor in an single engine
. How many emergency spots do you find in mountains like the cascades or over a city?So back to the initial post. I think it is much better to start on R22 and then transition to the H300. You want to be a skilled pilot? Then you have to look for the best training and not for the fastest! You will last much longer if you take the challange that the R22 offers rather then setting a record for the "lowest flight time required" during initial training.
For you matteolo, I can tell you from excessiv instructor experience that the pilots who trained on the R22 had no issues converting into other (heavier) helicopters. The R22 is a light aircraft and requires permanent control inputs but that trains you for your life as a professional pilot. You have no reason to be scared of the R22. It has a main- and tail rotor and the laws of Newton and Co apply as well. I will take a few houres untill your hover is as stable as it is in the 300 right now but that is it. Your reflexes to the "Low rpm warning system" in the 22 will need to develop also. But the only way to lern to fly is to fly.
