UK CAA Fees Consultation
Thread Starter
UK CAA Fees Consultation
As the harsh reality of ending cross-subsidy continues, the CAA has published a consultation document about its new SRG fees. These will be put in place next April unless our industry wakes up and responds appropriately. That means everyone in UK aviation. These new fees affect personnel licensing, airfields, ATCOs, all of GA.
A Rule 5 Exemption goes from £100 to £380......some airfields face an 88% increase in their fees.....and AOC holders are hit hard.
Sticky this ? Circulate this. Take the time to read - there are some lengthy docs - but a lot of the content is repetitive.
See CAA Consultation here and sign-up with a response before Dec 14.
A Rule 5 Exemption goes from £100 to £380......some airfields face an 88% increase in their fees.....and AOC holders are hit hard.
Sticky this ? Circulate this. Take the time to read - there are some lengthy docs - but a lot of the content is repetitive.
See CAA Consultation here and sign-up with a response before Dec 14.
CAA fees consultation
Could I be forgiven for thinking this is just a last ditch attempt to improve the CAA pension/redundancy pot before EASA takes over.
Somebody please tell me I'm wrong! Over to you JimL.
With fraternal greetings,
ambi
Somebody please tell me I'm wrong! Over to you JimL.
With fraternal greetings,
ambi
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Warwick
Age: 42
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cash And Angst... at it again. Robbing
. They really want to make sure only the big boys (BA, FR, etc) can afford to fly don't they - at least that is how it seems.
I am quite surprised they haven't found some tenuous environmental angle they can hang the new increases on, so we are made to feel guilty for questioning it!!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree the CAA are charging to much but I might be naive here could someone give me a suggestion on how me as a mere line-pilot can do anything to influence the CAA?
Letter to the MP?
Letter to the CAA?
Letter to ?
March on the CAA?
I think there a re a lot of people like me who need some guidance on this after all we do have a life outside of this.
Cheers
Then again I might just be a simpleton.
Letter to the MP?
Letter to the CAA?
Letter to ?
March on the CAA?
I think there a re a lot of people like me who need some guidance on this after all we do have a life outside of this.
Cheers
Then again I might just be a simpleton.
I wouldn't call them thou, you’ll get one answer on the phone! Then another email saying something completely different plus would you mind jumping through lease other hoops aswell because we are not here to provide you with a service, which you’re paying heavily for............ NO!!!! We just want to you around.
you around.
Thread Starter
To answer Brilliant Stuff - a "mere" line pilot. Surely you think better of yourself than that ? You have the ability to communicate with your employer - isn't it worth drawing their attention to these proposals ?
In any case, you could sign-up to the CAA Consultation and deliver a response - this would take only a few minutes. That's why they've put it online.
The Government has announced a root and branch review of the CAA - it's happening now. Your employer, your airfield base, your ATCO or SATCO should be ensuring that the Government hears your concerns. Naturally, the Dept for Transport isn't going to hear individuals - but they will have to pay attention if whole bodies complain.
On the fees issue, BHAB have rolled-over and accepted it all. How do they justify that to their Members ?
In any case, you could sign-up to the CAA Consultation and deliver a response - this would take only a few minutes. That's why they've put it online.
The Government has announced a root and branch review of the CAA - it's happening now. Your employer, your airfield base, your ATCO or SATCO should be ensuring that the Government hears your concerns. Naturally, the Dept for Transport isn't going to hear individuals - but they will have to pay attention if whole bodies complain.
On the fees issue, BHAB have rolled-over and accepted it all. How do they justify that to their Members ?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: LONDON
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bhab Benefits
Can anybody explain what BHAB actually do now for their members, with EASA slowly taking over.
I have never encountered anybody who has ever said that BHAB have done anything for them.
However I now look forward to be well informed.
I have never encountered anybody who has ever said that BHAB have done anything for them.
However I now look forward to be well informed.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, as much as I think we should all get together and make ourselves heard, that fact is that the CAA do NOT want people to become pilots and they do NOT want GA in this country.
In 20 years time when all the small operators have closed, all the airfields have been sold off for property development and everyone (not just the majority) goes abroad to train/fly, we will look back and wonder how it ended up this way.
Certainly in the seven years I have been involved in the UK heli industry I have seen it increasingly become the preserve of the well heeled private owners/pilots, the well heeled self-funded IR pilots, or ex-mil pilots.
In 20 years time when all the small operators have closed, all the airfields have been sold off for property development and everyone (not just the majority) goes abroad to train/fly, we will look back and wonder how it ended up this way.
Certainly in the seven years I have been involved in the UK heli industry I have seen it increasingly become the preserve of the well heeled private owners/pilots, the well heeled self-funded IR pilots, or ex-mil pilots.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Andover / Goodwood
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UK AOC fees - CAA Consultation
The CAA Consultation paper for the proposed astronomic hike of UK SRG fees is set to close on December 12th.
If we don't stand up and be counted now these fees will be pushed through and the whole industry will suffer.
Implementation of the proposed price structure will put operators out of business. The costs are not sustainable by operators, some are facing an increase of 400%, (£7500 to £30,000 per annum, check my maths please!?!)
It will encourage Illegal Charter and Debenture Operations.
If you are in any way involved with the UK Helicopter Industry, please post a comment using the online submissions system with the following link:
CAA Charges Consultation | Consultations | CAA
The document is the SRG Charges 2009 / 10 Consultation document, and we are particularly interested in Paragraph 4.1.2.
Please, Please, Please get involved whatever your link to the industry. Like the Age discrimination battle, this needs to be taken back to the CAA and we all need to stand up and be counted. Whilst you may rely on the BHA to represent the industry, and they DO DO A GREAT JOB, they only count as one vote, so please get involved.
Many Thanks,
QM
If we don't stand up and be counted now these fees will be pushed through and the whole industry will suffer.
Implementation of the proposed price structure will put operators out of business. The costs are not sustainable by operators, some are facing an increase of 400%, (£7500 to £30,000 per annum, check my maths please!?!)
It will encourage Illegal Charter and Debenture Operations.
If you are in any way involved with the UK Helicopter Industry, please post a comment using the online submissions system with the following link:
CAA Charges Consultation | Consultations | CAA
The document is the SRG Charges 2009 / 10 Consultation document, and we are particularly interested in Paragraph 4.1.2.
Please, Please, Please get involved whatever your link to the industry. Like the Age discrimination battle, this needs to be taken back to the CAA and we all need to stand up and be counted. Whilst you may rely on the BHA to represent the industry, and they DO DO A GREAT JOB, they only count as one vote, so please get involved.
Many Thanks,
QM
I've seen several emails about this in the last day or two.
I believe we all need to comment on the CAA web site as described above.
I've had an email from one of the operators with some very worrying numbers in it and I suspect it would put them out of business AOC wise.
I am putting together a spreadsheet based upon his figures and the AOC Charges documentation, I'll post it here tomorrow if anyone wants to try and calculate what the current suggested charges will cost them, but it doesn't look pretty.
We all need to act on this for what I believe is the good of the UK iindustry.
We only have until Dec 12 2008.
Top marks Qualityman for raising this in a public Forum.
GS
I believe we all need to comment on the CAA web site as described above.
I've had an email from one of the operators with some very worrying numbers in it and I suspect it would put them out of business AOC wise.
I am putting together a spreadsheet based upon his figures and the AOC Charges documentation, I'll post it here tomorrow if anyone wants to try and calculate what the current suggested charges will cost them, but it doesn't look pretty.
We all need to act on this for what I believe is the good of the UK iindustry.
We only have until Dec 12 2008.
Top marks Qualityman for raising this in a public Forum.
GS
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
As someone who has had only peripheral contact with the CAA - I'd have to ask 'what value are they adding to safety?' and 'What value are these extra fees for?'
Every flying club should write to local MP & explaining the Sorrow we feel for the poor pay and conditions the CAA have to endure, and the whole flying community will remember who to vote for next time.
Private flyers plank & rotary will be affected if MORE sites are closed & sold for development.
Consultation MY
we feel for the poor pay and conditions the CAA have to endure, and the whole flying community will remember who to vote for next time.Private flyers plank & rotary will be affected if MORE sites are closed & sold for development.
Consultation MY
and if we ALL didnt pay our fees for a year or so - how would the CAA fund prosecutions for us conducting illegal public transport etc for not having an AOC etc (because we didnt pay our charges for that piece of A4 paper) yet the operators continue to maintain high standards, SMS, etc?
Section 3 of the Consultation document is headed "SRG Financial Position". Some interesting words in there.
The most appalling feature I can see - and one which has been commented on by others more well versed in these matters than I - is that a SAFETY function needs to return a profit. The Treasury requires a 6% return on investment. This is the most anomalous thing I see.
And well done in reducing costs by 10% in the last 3 years but they could have tried harder - how about closing the canteen and getting a sandwich van to come round every morning !
The most appalling feature I can see - and one which has been commented on by others more well versed in these matters than I - is that a SAFETY function needs to return a profit. The Treasury requires a 6% return on investment. This is the most anomalous thing I see.
And well done in reducing costs by 10% in the last 3 years but they could have tried harder - how about closing the canteen and getting a sandwich van to come round every morning !
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now the Government wants to help everyone stay afloat the CAA should do the same instead of the opposite. How are they going to make 6% if more AOCs go bust. Flawed business plan me thinks.
I spoke to Glenn from Elite this morning and he is happy for me to post his two letters which he has circulated around the industry on here. I've converted them from Word to Pdf but other than that they are unchanged.
It seems that industry organisations like the BHAB may only count as one voice (or so Glenn thinks) and he is encouraging everyone to go the CAA site and make comments as detailed above.
The first one from October is here.
The second one from yesterday is here here.
The intention is not to have a dig at the FOIs who as several have said on here before are a generally very decent bunch of chaps, but try and get the CAA to realise that if they strangle the industry financially they won't have anything left to regulate soon apart from some emergency services operators and a few super AOCs.
I doubt very much everyone will give up, but it hardly encourages the operators to play fair, how many will end up with foreign AOCs ?
How many will end up entering into lease operations, which will probably be legal but could (not will, but could) employ any unregulated idiot with a licence to do the flying, in perhaps non EASA machines which in turn will be cheaper to operate and maintain.
Its important and as Glenn alludes to if we do nothing we can hardly complain about it can we ?
It seems that industry organisations like the BHAB may only count as one voice (or so Glenn thinks) and he is encouraging everyone to go the CAA site and make comments as detailed above.
The first one from October is here.
The second one from yesterday is here here.
The intention is not to have a dig at the FOIs who as several have said on here before are a generally very decent bunch of chaps, but try and get the CAA to realise that if they strangle the industry financially they won't have anything left to regulate soon apart from some emergency services operators and a few super AOCs.
I doubt very much everyone will give up, but it hardly encourages the operators to play fair, how many will end up with foreign AOCs ?
How many will end up entering into lease operations, which will probably be legal but could (not will, but could) employ any unregulated idiot with a licence to do the flying, in perhaps non EASA machines which in turn will be cheaper to operate and maintain.
Its important and as Glenn alludes to if we do nothing we can hardly complain about it can we ?
Last edited by VeeAny; 6th Dec 2008 at 10:10. Reason: Spelling, Links and general incompetence on my part.
This is a very laid back industry . I get the impression people dont really care what is happening !! I have said many times that the industry needs to act to bring the caa to heel before they kill the goose ...but nothing happens Why should i care , i dont have an aoc and never will have thankyou . You have all jumped when they have said jump . You have all filled in bollocks forms in triplicate . You have all accepted that it makes sense that i can fly att night and into Battersea in a single but you cannot ...why ?? The charter industry is close to dead and it is due to the operators around now being spineless and not standing up . There has just been a fuel hike by 50p a litre .....i know its not the caa but it has hardly got a mention on here yet a lot of you will lose your jobs because of it i promise you. That is an extra £100 per hour in a turbine give or take for anybody going on a private trip .
Wake up and see whats going on and DO something !!!! All aoc,s get together and STOP all payments to the caa until this is sorted . Just do lease flying for now with your main customers ....will they notice any difference ????
Why should i care , i dont have an aoc and never will have thankyou . You have all jumped when they have said jump . You have all filled in bollocks forms in triplicate . You have all accepted that it makes sense that i can fly att night and into Battersea in a single but you cannot ...why ?? The charter industry is close to dead and it is due to the operators around now being spineless and not standing up . There has just been a fuel hike by 50p a litre .....i know its not the caa but it has hardly got a mention on here yet a lot of you will lose your jobs because of it i promise you. That is an extra £100 per hour in a turbine give or take for anybody going on a private trip . Wake up and see whats going on and DO something !!!! All aoc,s get together and STOP all payments to the caa until this is sorted . Just do lease flying for now with your main customers ....will they notice any difference ????