Guimbal Cabri G2
Dennis - you are giving away endorsements too cheaply!!!
Alan Cassidy hates helicopters with a passion and yet you are one of very (and I mean VERY) few people whom his eyes light up with stories of simulated "air combat"....
The legend Dennis Kenyon endorses the Cabri G2... enough said.
Alan Cassidy hates helicopters with a passion and yet you are one of very (and I mean VERY) few people whom his eyes light up with stories of simulated "air combat"....
The legend Dennis Kenyon endorses the Cabri G2... enough said.
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It is the only light piston engine helicopter designed and constructed to modern/current standards, so it is reasonable to expect a step change improvement, albeit at a cost.
Never flown one, but would like to. Which is not to say that it won't have its problems, just like any new type. However, the new standards provide some significant safety barriers to a terminal outcome.
Have 2K+ hrs in R22. Would be happy never to get in one again, although it allowed me to become a commercial pilot.
Never flown one, but would like to. Which is not to say that it won't have its problems, just like any new type. However, the new standards provide some significant safety barriers to a terminal outcome.
Have 2K+ hrs in R22. Would be happy never to get in one again, although it allowed me to become a commercial pilot.
Last edited by Helinut; 14th Nov 2012 at 08:42.
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Dear Dennis,
I agree with you. I did not speak about technical part because this his not the first thing a pilot will be able to evaluate...
As a new car, the first thing you would like to do, is try this car, chekc if it's confortable, noisy or not, if you have enough power or not... you don't take into account, in a first time, technical part for example you cannot try the airbag! or the efficiancy of the seat belt when you make a hard braking...
But off course from a technical point of view a Cabri is the day'n'night compare to R22 and H300...
I agree with you. I did not speak about technical part because this his not the first thing a pilot will be able to evaluate...
As a new car, the first thing you would like to do, is try this car, chekc if it's confortable, noisy or not, if you have enough power or not... you don't take into account, in a first time, technical part for example you cannot try the airbag! or the efficiancy of the seat belt when you make a hard braking...
But off course from a technical point of view a Cabri is the day'n'night compare to R22 and H300...
Super safe compared to existing light helicopters lots of good points regarding finite components life, glass cockpit clear info & lots of it but at what cost when it goes wrong? FPR 
with composite problems who can & at what cost repair.
I am not saying it is not a step change forward but there are other costs that come with tech changes.
with composite problems who can & at what cost repair.I am not saying it is not a step change forward but there are other costs that come with tech changes.
The Cabri G2 has the European disease - it is far too expensive.
Yes I know about the desirable features and technology, etc.
Yes I know about the desirable features and technology, etc.
Around here, the G2 is much more expensive to buy than a R22 but less expensive to operate. The result of that situation is that the price of an hour on the G2 is 10 to 15% more expensive than a R22.
So for the same cost, pilots have the choice to fly about 50 minutes in a G2 or 60 in a R22. that's only a question of choice. Personally, I would choose the first one with no hesitation.
But back to you , you're lucky because In Australia where you live and at the flight school that offers flights on G2, the price for an hour on the G2 is the same than in a R22. So you can choose to enjoy flying an hour on a G2 or a R22 wichever you prefer without talking about money.
Life's nice down under, isn't it ?!
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 15th Nov 2012 at 11:01.
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Helihenri wrote "But back to you , you're lucky because In Australia where you live and at the flight school that offers flights on G2, the price for an hour on the G2 is the same than in a R22. So you can choose to enjoy flying an hour on a G2 or a R22 without talking about money, life's nice, isn't it ?! "
Sorry Henri. I think by "in Australia" you are possibly assuming Sydney is Australia.
I live in the next state (I guess equivalent to next Province), 1000km from Sydney.
But point taken, and hourly costs are important in comparison.
My point was really that the manufacturer has a very desirable product, hampered by an eye watering purchase price. If they can get a busines model that allows a reduction in price, they would have a run away best seller.
John
Sorry Henri. I think by "in Australia" you are possibly assuming Sydney is Australia.
I live in the next state (I guess equivalent to next Province), 1000km from Sydney.
But point taken, and hourly costs are important in comparison.
My point was really that the manufacturer has a very desirable product, hampered by an eye watering purchase price. If they can get a busines model that allows a reduction in price, they would have a run away best seller.
John
Hello John,
What a strange idea to live in a big country
! So you have to leave your job and move to Sydney 
I see your point but infortunatly, the price of the G2 will not change a lot.
Robinson has find the perfect business model to sell a cheap helicopter.
G2 and R22 don't have the same price because they don't have the same charasteristics.
Has I said, for the same cost, I would prefer to fly 50 minutes in a G2 than 60 in a R22.
Just the sad question of choice between price and charasteristics. (and that's why I don't drive a Caterham Superlight R500
)
.
What a strange idea to live in a big country
! So you have to leave your job and move to Sydney I see your point but infortunatly, the price of the G2 will not change a lot.
Robinson has find the perfect business model to sell a cheap helicopter.
G2 and R22 don't have the same price because they don't have the same charasteristics.
Has I said, for the same cost, I would prefer to fly 50 minutes in a G2 than 60 in a R22.
Just the sad question of choice between price and charasteristics. (and that's why I don't drive a Caterham Superlight R500
).
Last edited by HeliHenri; 15th Nov 2012 at 12:22.
Well only problem I can see with the G2 ( i was about to replace a S300C with one) is the warranty or rather lack of warranty, they point blankly refuse to warrant labour at all. Result, not replacing me 2 S300's now, not on a machine where the oldest one has barely 1000 hours on it !! Compared to 20 million plus in a Schweizer.
Compared to 20 million plus in a Schweizer.
20 millions hours in a 300 ! Maybe 20 000 would be find enough You're right, the choice in not easy and I can't help you about it. The H300 is a good and reliable aircraft.
You could contact Heli Aviation in Germany for instance to know what they think about this subject and how they deal with it. They operate 6 aircrafts and just ordered one more so they are at the present time the more experts about the G2.
.
HH
I would love to buy 2 of the machines but with both distributor (who takes 4 days to respond to my e mails because he is too busy)and manufacturer adament that they will not support any labour element if something goes wrong! Why should i pay for it ? Although here in UK I could take distributor to court on our sale of goods act, that is being of merchantable quality, but there is enough hassle running 4 helicopters without that.
Shame really as I know of 2 other potential customers who were interested until they discovered there was no warranty, even my £ 3000 Trek mountain bike comes with a frame warranty for life of the bike. Would you buy a new car with no warranty, dont think so. Even offered a compromise where I would get a Euro 10k discount and if nothing went wrong in 2 years they woud get the 10k back with interest. That got turned down flat, so obviously they expect it to go wrong and dont want to put their money where their mouth is, but expect me to !
Pity really as Bruno and his product are really impressive, so much so can put up with it costing more.
I would love to buy 2 of the machines but with both distributor (who takes 4 days to respond to my e mails because he is too busy)and manufacturer adament that they will not support any labour element if something goes wrong! Why should i pay for it ? Although here in UK I could take distributor to court on our sale of goods act, that is being of merchantable quality, but there is enough hassle running 4 helicopters without that.
Shame really as I know of 2 other potential customers who were interested until they discovered there was no warranty, even my £ 3000 Trek mountain bike comes with a frame warranty for life of the bike. Would you buy a new car with no warranty, dont think so. Even offered a compromise where I would get a Euro 10k discount and if nothing went wrong in 2 years they woud get the 10k back with interest. That got turned down flat, so obviously they expect it to go wrong and dont want to put their money where their mouth is, but expect me to !
Pity really as Bruno and his product are really impressive, so much so can put up with it costing more.
Rigi
Only warranty on parts.
Augusta 3 year parts and labour warranty
Sikorsky / Schweizer 2 years parts and labour warranty
MD 2 years parts and labour warranty
Robinson, not sure but 1 of my customers received parts and labour warranty
Comes down to money where the mouth is. My money is there 2 buy 1 possibly 2 machines, but manufacture obviously doesnt believe in their machine. Comes back to my original point who on this forum would puchase a new car with out warranty ?
Only warranty on parts.
Augusta 3 year parts and labour warranty
Sikorsky / Schweizer 2 years parts and labour warranty
MD 2 years parts and labour warranty
Robinson, not sure but 1 of my customers received parts and labour warranty
Comes down to money where the mouth is. My money is there 2 buy 1 possibly 2 machines, but manufacture obviously doesnt believe in their machine. Comes back to my original point who on this forum would puchase a new car with out warranty ?
Hello H500,
I do understand that you would prefer the maximun waranty possible but stop saying that there is no waranty at all, it is just not true.
You're not sure about Robinson, and we're talking about a nearly 40 years old manufecturer which pruduced more than 10 000 aircraft and so is one of the biggest.
Guimbal is young and small, they can't be better yet than Robinson on that point.
As you say, Schweizer that is part of the powerfull sikorsky has the perfect waranty you want and you like (with reason) the 300 so the choice is obvious for you !
I do understand that you would prefer the maximun waranty possible but stop saying that there is no waranty at all, it is just not true.
You're not sure about Robinson, and we're talking about a nearly 40 years old manufecturer which pruduced more than 10 000 aircraft and so is one of the biggest.
Guimbal is young and small, they can't be better yet than Robinson on that point.
As you say, Schweizer that is part of the powerfull sikorsky has the perfect waranty you want and you like (with reason) the 300 so the choice is obvious for you !
Last edited by HeliHenri; 17th Nov 2012 at 10:32.
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Henri
The manufacturer should be justifiable proud of what has been achieved, but there are some things that would allow more customers to order this helicopter.
Rest assured, from the posts here, I think virtually all are astounded by the quality of the product that has been produced, and desire to purchase such a fine and desirable machine, but some are put off by other issues, that hopefully the manufacturer (? you) can correct if we give you feedback in a forum such as this.
John
The manufacturer should be justifiable proud of what has been achieved, but there are some things that would allow more customers to order this helicopter.
Rest assured, from the posts here, I think virtually all are astounded by the quality of the product that has been produced, and desire to purchase such a fine and desirable machine, but some are put off by other issues, that hopefully the manufacturer (? you) can correct if we give you feedback in a forum such as this.
John
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An Italian fixed wing manufacturer's warranty is that parts are supplied FOC, shipping of the parts is met by the aircraft owner and warranty labour comes out of the dealer's 'cut'.
I'm sure not having labour covered by warranty will harm sales.
I'm sure not having labour covered by warranty will harm sales.
HHenri
Hughs 500 & I discussed this point & I feel that labour costs Will preclude me buying a G2, the feeling I have is they are trying to nit pick on warranty costs to the detriment of the product, it is not just about money it is about confidence in the product, perception is a powerful sales tool.
Rigidhead
Times are changing the aircraft industry has taken the proverbial out of paying customers for to long.
Money is tighter, people are looking for the best deal, or as is happening ( ask the insurers ) getting rid of expensive items such as aircraft in general inc helicopters.
Part cost has got to the obscene level for mundane items the manufacturers & regulators will kill the GA industry or is this what they want.
Hughs 500 & I discussed this point & I feel that labour costs Will preclude me buying a G2, the feeling I have is they are trying to nit pick on warranty costs to the detriment of the product, it is not just about money it is about confidence in the product, perception is a powerful sales tool.
Rigidhead
Times are changing the aircraft industry has taken the proverbial out of paying customers for to long.
Money is tighter, people are looking for the best deal, or as is happening ( ask the insurers ) getting rid of expensive items such as aircraft in general inc helicopters.
Part cost has got to the obscene level for mundane items the manufacturers & regulators will kill the GA industry or is this what they want.