lost bottle?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Western MA
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Combat helo pilots dealt with this daily.
For a moment, imagine the Viet Nam era helo pilots’ lot. Most every one of them has been shot at, some on a daily basis. All have had less than soft landings outside the fence with gun drawn. They saw death daily and were also the ones performing it on others. It was simply expected the pilot next to him may get the round in the head that day or they may hear of others in their unit who did on a weekly basis. And this is routine and expected. From the pan into the fire they say.
I’m curious how any in our membership who were combat military pilots handled such situations on such a frequent basis knowing full well they HAD to get back on that horse every day and face such demons since so many were counting on them for their very existence.
I’m curious how any in our membership who were combat military pilots handled such situations on such a frequent basis knowing full well they HAD to get back on that horse every day and face such demons since so many were counting on them for their very existence.
With 1500 hours i'm still afraid of heights - I need to be able to see ground detail in order to feel comfortable. Of course, the whole reason I switched to helicopters was to fly low...
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
high unwillingly
Last year in the Northern Territory over Black soil plains I was cruising at about 1'000 AGL when the R22 got caught in an updraft. The VSI indicated around the 2000 fpm mark upwards. I had the collective full down, airspeed around 60 kts. the only way i could stop it ascending any more at around 7,500 I started a steep turn and eventually it started to come down. I have around 14,000 in R22's and I have to say it put the wind up me. Nowadays I find I like to stick low before the big updrafts have had a chance to develop.
Any stats?
So what are the statistics relating to injuries and fatalities for helicopters?
I guess the only one stat that is reliable is number of incidents as a ratio to registered aircraft, giving a pecentage of aircraft that are involved in an incident.
Accidents per hours in the seat is an eductated guess?
Mickjoebill
I guess the only one stat that is reliable is number of incidents as a ratio to registered aircraft, giving a pecentage of aircraft that are involved in an incident.
Accidents per hours in the seat is an eductated guess?
Mickjoebill
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
str8,
I can understand your desire to park the helicopter. I've thought about doing the same from time to time. I started flying at 19, in US Army flight school. Flew under-powered UH-1C and slightly under-powered AH-1Gs in Vietnam in 68 and 69. Back then, the military training was good, but nothing like is taught these days. We needed a lot of sand-bags to fill seats between 68 and 72.
I had a couple of my colleagues take rounds and few went down. There are too many war stories to mention, but the main point I have is we tended to find an excuse for the other guy dying and not us. None of it made sense, but it helped us to strap the helicopter on the next day and keep going.
Hangar talking. I think most pilots in the war survived and had less problems after the ward because we were able to come back to the base at the end of the day, and have a beer or twenty with the other pilots. We'd talk through our fears. We'd never show fear (or thought we weren't) to the others, but talking though the day's activities made us get our problems on the table. On our time off, we used to train or try out new techniques to keep us from getting into a problem from previous days. You might give that a try with the other helicopter drivers you used to hang with.
If you do go back to flying, concentrate on your job:
Know your aircraft,
Ensure that your aircraft is mechanically sound,
Understand what your mission is for the day, plan it and stick to it,
Train as much as you can. That includes reading magazines, asking questions of mechanics (engineers) older and younger pilots, attend seminars (even local ones where other pilots in your area get together and talk about local problems, flight techniques, etc).
When flying, give 100% to situational awareness. Know where you are 3 dimentionally, where the obstructions are and other aircraft.
If you concentrate on the threats, the presumed risk of flying, you are not concentrating on your job and you will fail (I.e. screw up, crash, etc.)
I got out of flying helicopters in 88, but flew corporate fixed-wing until 91 then got into accident investigation work. Some one asked about statistics. Helicopters tend to have accidents because they do jobs that fixed-wing cannot do. Fixed-wing need nice runways and have plenty of room to do their job. Accident rates vary with the tpye of job. Seismic is a higher risk than flying offshore. The offshore industry is slowly coming aronud to introducing equipment, increased traiing, and working with the aircraft manufacturers to improve handling qualities and reducing pilot workload. The airline industry started same process over 30 years ago.
But, it still comes down to the individual pilot to put it all together. I flew for a couple of bad operators in the fish and game and forest-fire suppression business in the mid-70s making $500 a month and no expenses. There are still operators like that around, and they usually do not believe in all the training or fancy equipment installation.
If you run into a fixed-wnig driver who bad-mouths helicopters pilots, just remember that you are in an elite group of professionals and tell them that the differance between a fixed-wing pilto and a helicopter pilot is that a fixed-wing pilot always wanted to get into aviation, but didn't have the b.. courage to try.
You'll make the correct decision for yourself. Good luck in life.
I can understand your desire to park the helicopter. I've thought about doing the same from time to time. I started flying at 19, in US Army flight school. Flew under-powered UH-1C and slightly under-powered AH-1Gs in Vietnam in 68 and 69. Back then, the military training was good, but nothing like is taught these days. We needed a lot of sand-bags to fill seats between 68 and 72.
I had a couple of my colleagues take rounds and few went down. There are too many war stories to mention, but the main point I have is we tended to find an excuse for the other guy dying and not us. None of it made sense, but it helped us to strap the helicopter on the next day and keep going.
Hangar talking. I think most pilots in the war survived and had less problems after the ward because we were able to come back to the base at the end of the day, and have a beer or twenty with the other pilots. We'd talk through our fears. We'd never show fear (or thought we weren't) to the others, but talking though the day's activities made us get our problems on the table. On our time off, we used to train or try out new techniques to keep us from getting into a problem from previous days. You might give that a try with the other helicopter drivers you used to hang with.
If you do go back to flying, concentrate on your job:
Know your aircraft,
Ensure that your aircraft is mechanically sound,
Understand what your mission is for the day, plan it and stick to it,
Train as much as you can. That includes reading magazines, asking questions of mechanics (engineers) older and younger pilots, attend seminars (even local ones where other pilots in your area get together and talk about local problems, flight techniques, etc).
When flying, give 100% to situational awareness. Know where you are 3 dimentionally, where the obstructions are and other aircraft.
If you concentrate on the threats, the presumed risk of flying, you are not concentrating on your job and you will fail (I.e. screw up, crash, etc.)
I got out of flying helicopters in 88, but flew corporate fixed-wing until 91 then got into accident investigation work. Some one asked about statistics. Helicopters tend to have accidents because they do jobs that fixed-wing cannot do. Fixed-wing need nice runways and have plenty of room to do their job. Accident rates vary with the tpye of job. Seismic is a higher risk than flying offshore. The offshore industry is slowly coming aronud to introducing equipment, increased traiing, and working with the aircraft manufacturers to improve handling qualities and reducing pilot workload. The airline industry started same process over 30 years ago.
But, it still comes down to the individual pilot to put it all together. I flew for a couple of bad operators in the fish and game and forest-fire suppression business in the mid-70s making $500 a month and no expenses. There are still operators like that around, and they usually do not believe in all the training or fancy equipment installation.
If you run into a fixed-wnig driver who bad-mouths helicopters pilots, just remember that you are in an elite group of professionals and tell them that the differance between a fixed-wing pilto and a helicopter pilot is that a fixed-wing pilot always wanted to get into aviation, but didn't have the b.. courage to try.
You'll make the correct decision for yourself. Good luck in life.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well guys, i flew again today thanks to the encouragement from you all. While I did not start this thread, it has shown me that most heli pilots have experienced fear. As I climbed thru 2000 feet today I got the same giddy feelings so kept it below that level with no problem. I will keep stretching the envelope until I can fly at 5000 feet no problem. Thanks for all the advice.
p.s. Whirlybird: I faced my fears as you recommended.
p.s. Whirlybird: I faced my fears as you recommended.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: swansea, wales
Age: 66
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eddie1, you seriously need to have a word in the ear of the dispatcher that sends you and your heli to individuals who have had speeding encounters with trains! Seriously.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: engineer at large
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm surprised that any professional pilot can refer to flying (any type) as dangerous. Hazardous, yes; but dangerous?
(toned this down...sorry)
Last edited by FlightPathOBN; 16th Jun 2011 at 14:09. Reason: toned down
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: N/A
Age: 56
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just a misunderstanding
(hazardous makes you cautious, dangerous makes you afraid )
Playing with words is spectacular, but who the hell can fly for years thinking all the day "maybe I'm about to die". It happened to me for a limited time, minutes or seconds. Not all the day.
I only have few hours more than one thousand, but I feel
much more comfortable when flying with our ten years old BK well serviced by the experienced engineers and flown by an experienced captain,
than when I drive home at the end of the week.
I'm happy to work with a team that never break the rules. FM, MEL, Weather, Procedures, everything. If it is "no go", than we don't go. Aware that anything could happen anyway.
But no matter how cautious I am when driving, cycling or riding my motorbike, nothing can protect me from someonelse's mistake on the road. No emergency procedure most of times. Now I have two kids, that's why my motorbike is sleeping since 2006.
By the way, out of thread, I love flying with an experienced captain. When I was alone on a R44 Astro with my boss, flying all the country, nobody was there to teach me anything. Only my (sometimes scaring) mistakes.
Finally, till the moment you feel safe, and If you have this option, bring with you your "life insurance" and keep on learning. Could be a FI or a retired pilot...
Sorry about my english.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I found this link on another part of pprune, it is an outstanding article regarding Pilot Anxiety, I really never knew it was so common.
http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf
http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf
