An art form
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the md 500
I've been flying for a long time, seen and flown many aircraft. I have told a lot of people over the years that if I ever win the lottery, there is one aircraft I will buy, no question. The MD500. There is something sporty and audacious about the way it looks when in flight. I watched the men of the 160th flying their "little birds" and it is fantastic what they can do with them. It is the Porsche of aircraft. Damn it, I want one of my own!
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Its a nice vid Vaq, surely.
With regard to precision flying I can think of a couple of assignments which might require a little more effort .. live-wire work on the electricty transmissions for one (if we're talking 500's) and I once witnessed an Erickson crew planting poles without ground-crew assistance alongside a road into prepared holes at the end of a 150ft line which, with the length of the pole probably brought the seat of the load closer to 200ft from the aircraft.
The Erickson team did have a ground crew but the fly boys were moving so fast that they were having difficulty catching-up. Watching the Skycrane driver manoeuvre the pole (without assistance) into the hole and then button the load to leave it resting upright was something else!
Re: the 500, she's a wonderful craft and I have to join Grumpy in declaring that I've come close to buying a 'D' model (a couple of times) and would probably have one already if I could just settle in one country long enough to be able to enjoy the thing! She's useless for pax (noisy and cramped) but for driving the skies on those days you simply want to fly and feel the bliss of man and machine working as one .. the 500 is hard to beat.
Back to Vaq's vid: There are some pretty unorthodox procedures taking place here but we'll let that slide for now. However, if it was my ship and someone performed a load-lift such as the one at 3:30 they would be greeted by a gentle slap to the back of the head once they landed! The difference, even with light loads, (in terms of impact upon the aircraft's dynamic systems) between taking up the slack and gradually introducing the load-weight to the aircraft .. and simply yanking the load off the ground .. is considerable.
Anyway, 500 - a great ship!
Its a nice vid Vaq, surely.
With regard to precision flying I can think of a couple of assignments which might require a little more effort .. live-wire work on the electricty transmissions for one (if we're talking 500's) and I once witnessed an Erickson crew planting poles without ground-crew assistance alongside a road into prepared holes at the end of a 150ft line which, with the length of the pole probably brought the seat of the load closer to 200ft from the aircraft.
The Erickson team did have a ground crew but the fly boys were moving so fast that they were having difficulty catching-up. Watching the Skycrane driver manoeuvre the pole (without assistance) into the hole and then button the load to leave it resting upright was something else!
Re: the 500, she's a wonderful craft and I have to join Grumpy in declaring that I've come close to buying a 'D' model (a couple of times) and would probably have one already if I could just settle in one country long enough to be able to enjoy the thing! She's useless for pax (noisy and cramped) but for driving the skies on those days you simply want to fly and feel the bliss of man and machine working as one .. the 500 is hard to beat.
Back to Vaq's vid: There are some pretty unorthodox procedures taking place here but we'll let that slide for now. However, if it was my ship and someone performed a load-lift such as the one at 3:30 they would be greeted by a gentle slap to the back of the head once they landed! The difference, even with light loads, (in terms of impact upon the aircraft's dynamic systems) between taking up the slack and gradually introducing the load-weight to the aircraft .. and simply yanking the load off the ground .. is considerable.
Anyway, 500 - a great ship!
Savoia
Saw nothing wrong with the lift....he paused to take the strain....lifted....and dropped.... looked like a perfect pick to any professional line pilot doing this type of work. This is "utility flying" at its finest. With all due respect....Maybe you should stick to commenting upon your specialty....
There are some pretty unorthodox procedures taking place here but we'll let that slide for now. However, if it was my ship and someone performed a load-lift such as the one at 3:30 they would be greeted by a gentle slap to the back of the head once they landed!
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Having worked in the 'utility' field I understand that there are a lot of highly skilled pilots out there - setting poles or air conditioners is certainly demanding work - however to be able to swing the hook straight in to the guys hand as shown on this film shows a pilot whose skill level, in my opinion, is slightly higher than average. It is all split second timing and shows a pilot who is very in tune with his machine.
Production work is just that. Time is money, but as with Gordy, I didn't see anything that would warrant a slap on the back of the head.
Production work is just that. Time is money, but as with Gordy, I didn't see anything that would warrant a slap on the back of the head.
Spend all day, every day doing the same thing and you'll probably get pretty good at it.
Now try the same level of accuracy in the dark, with 40 kts of wind when you can't see the target/hook and you are placing the hook in the hands of a guy who is struggling to stand up on a fishing boat in 6M seas!
Now try the same level of accuracy in the dark, with 40 kts of wind when you can't see the target/hook and you are placing the hook in the hands of a guy who is struggling to stand up on a fishing boat in 6M seas!
Agree 110% with Gordy: a practised and competent utility pilot doing what we all aspire to 
Crab, you do appear a bit jaded at times. We could say much the same about your skills, which (again) we generally admire and envy. Trogging around in a SK in bad weather knowing you can save a bloke or two is a great skill (and one that I once had), and in its way the H500 lifting is just as good
Crab, you do appear a bit jaded at times. We could say much the same about your skills, which (again) we generally admire and envy. Trogging around in a SK in bad weather knowing you can save a bloke or two is a great skill (and one that I once had), and in its way the H500 lifting is just as good
Not trying to 'big-note' myself (love the phrase btw) but a video of a guy spicing up a tedious job in benign conditions is not going to make me run out and vote for him as the world's best helicopter pilot.
If he isn't big-noting himself, why is the video on you-tube? Some sympathetic editing means only one clean release is shown, all the rest change shot just after the trees get to the dumper.
I hope aspiring long-line pilots don't think that is the way you should treat all loads - that much swing on a heavy or valuable load would make for an interesting arrival!!
He's welcome to the job, a few hours of that would drive anyone to drink.
If he isn't big-noting himself, why is the video on you-tube? Some sympathetic editing means only one clean release is shown, all the rest change shot just after the trees get to the dumper.
I hope aspiring long-line pilots don't think that is the way you should treat all loads - that much swing on a heavy or valuable load would make for an interesting arrival!!
He's welcome to the job, a few hours of that would drive anyone to drink.
Crab you are really quite insecure aren't you !!!!! I thought it was poetry and v slick . We all have our own particular skills ( yours involves blowing and a trumpet ....!!!).
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From the point of view of a very ground based, non aero engineer, it seemed to me that the load/unload dynamic was almost sinusoidal. No great stress pulses in the system at all.
From what I saw, he translated from forward flight into forward flight in the opposite direction with a single turn. The nose pointed at an axis about a length and a half in front of the canopy and I don't think the helo actually passed directly over the target. Nevertheless, he plonked the hook more or less in the logger's hand at zero miles an hour.
Like playing the piano or flying a helicopter - I wish I could do it at all, let alone that well.
Roger.
From what I saw, he translated from forward flight into forward flight in the opposite direction with a single turn. The nose pointed at an axis about a length and a half in front of the canopy and I don't think the helo actually passed directly over the target. Nevertheless, he plonked the hook more or less in the logger's hand at zero miles an hour.
Like playing the piano or flying a helicopter - I wish I could do it at all, let alone that well.
Roger.
Well, as said before here "if you do this the whole day long you'll get good at it" If you can get the feel of flying the ''hook'' and 'not' the helicopter, then it will look like this...
but
Gordy for one, you'll have to look at the clip again.
One thing is to deliver the hook and as you say pause it while the gentleman on the ground hooks on, another thing is to take the slack of the line and have tension, before you ''yank'' the load off like at 3:30.
I am a production longline-pilot but fly the 350 with the cargo-swing which is much more forgiving than having a fixed hook like on the 500 or the 206 series, and I know how it feels like lifting even reasonably light loads without tension. This has been discussed in a seperate thread ''shock-loading'' or something like it.
Now, I don't know the weight of the christmas-trees being lifted, they might be very light and supposedly there's nothing to snag onto, but I certainly wouldn't like a pilot to yank ANY load off like that if I owned the machine.
As a little side-note, there is another thread here about a fatal accident in Andorra where it seems as "the long-line'' snagged a three and brought the helicopter down.
Production is one thing, but it's to none's benefit if you crash while being the fastest.
but
Gordy for one, you'll have to look at the clip again.
One thing is to deliver the hook and as you say pause it while the gentleman on the ground hooks on, another thing is to take the slack of the line and have tension, before you ''yank'' the load off like at 3:30.
I am a production longline-pilot but fly the 350 with the cargo-swing which is much more forgiving than having a fixed hook like on the 500 or the 206 series, and I know how it feels like lifting even reasonably light loads without tension. This has been discussed in a seperate thread ''shock-loading'' or something like it.
Now, I don't know the weight of the christmas-trees being lifted, they might be very light and supposedly there's nothing to snag onto, but I certainly wouldn't like a pilot to yank ANY load off like that if I owned the machine.
As a little side-note, there is another thread here about a fatal accident in Andorra where it seems as "the long-line'' snagged a three and brought the helicopter down.
Production is one thing, but it's to none's benefit if you crash while being the fastest.
Not trying to 'big-note' myself
That is 'big-noting' yourself.
P1
Last edited by pohm1; 17th Jun 2011 at 01:47.
CAUTION - BIG NOTE ALERT
See the video?
Hell, I know the guy - beat that!
See the video?
Hell, I know the guy - beat that!
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"Now try the same level of accuracy in the dark, with 40 kts of wind when you can't see the target/hook and you are placing the hook in the hands of a guy who is struggling to stand up on a fishing boat in 6M seas!"
Yes, with the help of autohover, a copilot and an aircrewman coning you.
As it says above, the pilot can't see the guy on the deck at the time the hook is placed in his hands (unless the aircraft is fully coupled in autohover and he is looking at the flir). Team effort getting that hook into his hand.
For my two cents, I think a reasonable sling pilots could get the tree into the truck without too much of a problem but that chap does it with a particular finesse.
"Now try the same level of accuracy in the dark, with 40 kts of wind when you can't see the target/hook and you are placing the hook in the hands of a guy who is struggling to stand up on a fishing boat in 6M seas!"
Yes, with the help of autohover, a copilot and an aircrewman coning you.
As it says above, the pilot can't see the guy on the deck at the time the hook is placed in his hands (unless the aircraft is fully coupled in autohover and he is looking at the flir). Team effort getting that hook into his hand.
For my two cents, I think a reasonable sling pilots could get the tree into the truck without too much of a problem but that chap does it with a particular finesse.
Nigel - and your particular experience of either long-lining or winching is............?
POHM - not saying my job is more difficult - just that his is not that hard even if he does manage it with elan.
POHM - not saying my job is more difficult - just that his is not that hard even if he does manage it with elan.
