Video released for Aust Army BlackHawk crash
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Earlier BOI transcripts implied that the last day of the hearing would be 3rd Aug and certainly the last reported proceedings on 2nd Aug were adjourned until the 3rd but no further transcripts have appeared, unless I'm being dumb and can't find them on the website.
Please advise.......
W
Please advise.......
W
I'll get me coat......
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Politicians are demanding the final report on the crash be released to the public. These aren't the actual report, just the news artices on the final report.
Sky News: Blackhawk report
Black Hawk flight was doomed, inquiry told - National - smh.com.au
Black Hawk crash verdict handed down | The Australian
Sky News: Blackhawk report
Black Hawk flight was doomed, inquiry told - National - smh.com.au
Black Hawk crash verdict handed down | The Australian
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Yeah, saw that on the internet news early this am. The gist seemed to be that the media was lampooning the deposed Liberals as the "political machine that was hiding".
The truth as far as I have always maintained is that they are after the wrong "political machine."
Hollywood's news stories quotes spell out in detail which 'political' party should be pursued.
As below;- 1)
and 2), well "it is understood" that he said it, he must be an expert on helicopters?????/ and their pilots.
Wasn't there a famous quote from a WW11 General protrayed in a film based around Patton, which went something like, "Well, bottlenecks always have the narrowest part at the top, you're fired."
in response to a subordinate complaining about a traffic jam being a bottleneck during a major military push in the war's final stages.
just a reflection.
tet
The truth as far as I have always maintained is that they are after the wrong "political machine."
Hollywood's news stories quotes spell out in detail which 'political' party should be pursued.
As below;- 1)
Commander Rush said the strength and direction of the wind was known beforehand, and questions would be asked of the commanding officer who provided the flight authorisation.
The report was handed to Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston six months ago, with the defence force head said to be appalled by the findings, Fairfax reported.
It is understood that he dubbed senior pilots from the squadron "cowboys'' and launched an audit of all helicopter fleets.
It is understood that he dubbed senior pilots from the squadron "cowboys'' and launched an audit of all helicopter fleets.
in response to a subordinate complaining about a traffic jam being a bottleneck during a major military push in the war's final stages.
just a reflection.
tet
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This is not surprising. The ADF has a long history of not releasing reports to the public. I doubt that you will see this report in the public domain. However, what would be interesting to see is the accident/incident reports leading up to this.
The board has noticed, particularly in the context of normalised deviance, the Squadrons blase approach to wind and especially whilst conducting Special Operations Assault Approach. Furthermore it was a combination of factors: height speed and lateral distance from the ship and tail wind that contributed to the crash of BlackHawk 221. Moreover the energy that the aircraft carried into the approach could not be successfully dissipated in the available space whilst keeping the aircraft within the flight manual engine management and performance limitations. The resultant flare terminated in an extreme attitude and in the presence of a tail wind. Under these circumstances the engines were unable to respond to the power demands in a timely fashion and the BlackHawk responded as should have been expected.
Para 2.23:
Even at a contingency power rating, the engines could not produce sufficient power to simultaneously overcome the drag to accelerate the rotor and produce sufficient lift to arrest the rate of descent
Para 2.25:
Immediately prior to impact the helicopter was descending at 1800fpm with an effective airspeed of less than 5kts and with significant power applied. These conditions are within those described in the Flt Manual to be most favourable for developing Vortex Ring.
The report leans towards VR as the cause.
I suspect (given the circumstances, the main conclusion (above) and para 2.23) that what they actually mean is: Settling with Power and not Vortex Ring. [I re-iterate: VR is an aerodynamic state and SWP is an engine performance state].
This guy came round the corner (into wind and with a gentle descent already on), ending up pointing the helo downwind (within 10degrees) with serious nose up attitude and found he was (a) still moving fwd too quickly and (b) still descending. He went from 20 - 100% (Max Cont) within 2 seconds to arrest his momentum and found that this was insufficent to arrest his trajectory. Blades slowed down exacerbating the descent - impact.
Bottom line from the BOI:
Supervisors from Command to blame - lack of supervision and Training.
No disciplinary action taken
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Why don't you think it was VRS?
Thomas:
Why don't you think it's VR? (yes, I agree that is an aerodynamic state). Over the years I've taught the recovery (at altitude) many times. While you often get some warning, a few times it's been like stepping off a roof - bam! pegging the VSI.
1,800 ft/min descent rate does not sound to me like an engine performance state. If you look at the torque over the last 30 seconds, it's consistently low: because he was flaring off his 100 knots of airspeed, I would think. So how did the flare, which should have kept the sink rate low, turn into such a high descent rate? VRS is certainly a plausible explanation in my mind.
As you mention in another article, there is a lot of confusion in the states as to the terms "Settling With Power" and "Power Settling". I've had people describe "Settling With Power" as a lack of engine power (that then caused the helicopter to sink into it's downwash and enter VRS!). So, you can certainly have a performance problem that gets you into the VRS envelope.
Not saying you're wrong by any means, just wondering why are you discounting VRS?
Paul
The report leans towards VR as the cause.
I suspect (given the circumstances, the main conclusion (above) and para 2.23) that what they actually mean is: Settling with Power and not Vortex Ring. [I re-iterate: VR is an aerodynamic state and SWP is an engine performance state].
I suspect (given the circumstances, the main conclusion (above) and para 2.23) that what they actually mean is: Settling with Power and not Vortex Ring. [I re-iterate: VR is an aerodynamic state and SWP is an engine performance state].
1,800 ft/min descent rate does not sound to me like an engine performance state. If you look at the torque over the last 30 seconds, it's consistently low: because he was flaring off his 100 knots of airspeed, I would think. So how did the flare, which should have kept the sink rate low, turn into such a high descent rate? VRS is certainly a plausible explanation in my mind.
As you mention in another article, there is a lot of confusion in the states as to the terms "Settling With Power" and "Power Settling". I've had people describe "Settling With Power" as a lack of engine power (that then caused the helicopter to sink into it's downwash and enter VRS!). So, you can certainly have a performance problem that gets you into the VRS envelope.
Not saying you're wrong by any means, just wondering why are you discounting VRS?
Paul
