Age Discrimination: Fighting the CAA! (+ update)
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The Wheels of Justice!
A verdict has been reached. The Tribunal reconvened last week and made its decision.
The decision is now in the typing pool which has up to 4 weeks to produce it to the world! I have begged to be alowed a verbal decision but, as yet, have had no response on way or the other.
I can assure PPRuNers that I will post here as soon as I have any news.
Ian Evans
The decision is now in the typing pool which has up to 4 weeks to produce it to the world! I have begged to be alowed a verbal decision but, as yet, have had no response on way or the other.
I can assure PPRuNers that I will post here as soon as I have any news.
Ian Evans
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Well, they certainly love to keep you in suspenders eh? 
Fingers crossed!
Cheers
Whirls
Fingers crossed!
Cheers
Whirls
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The Judgement finally arrived today.
"The unanimous Judgement of the Tribunal is that the claim fails and is dismissed."
No reasons, no explanations, nothing but the bald statement. It's now 15 months since I first filed my complaint. Quite extraordinary.
I have now written asking for reasons (which is, apparently, the correct procedure) before I can decide whether I can and should appeal.
I'm sorry for this setback but I can assure you all I won't let this go if there's any way that I can change it. I'll keep you posted.
Ian Evans
"The unanimous Judgement of the Tribunal is that the claim fails and is dismissed."
No reasons, no explanations, nothing but the bald statement. It's now 15 months since I first filed my complaint. Quite extraordinary.
I have now written asking for reasons (which is, apparently, the correct procedure) before I can decide whether I can and should appeal.
I'm sorry for this setback but I can assure you all I won't let this go if there's any way that I can change it. I'll keep you posted.
Ian Evans
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It took a month in the typing pool to get, "The unanimous Judgement of the Tribunal is that the claim fails and is dismissed" transferred onto letterhead?! 
Sorry to hear that Ian - a committee meeting will be convened!
Cheers
Whirls
Sorry to hear that Ian - a committee meeting will be convened!
Cheers
Whirls
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No reasons given...probably because they don't have any. Prejudice is not a reason. And 'Extraordinary' is far too kind a word.
Good luck if you decide to appeal, Ian, and keep us posted...as I know you will.
Good luck if you decide to appeal, Ian, and keep us posted...as I know you will.
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Not a surprise result, then. I suspect a similar one will occur from any appeal. However, I wonder if the oncoming legislation concerning Age Discrimination will offer a new route. [Perhaps not since it seems to apply to employers and not regulatory bodies.] The unassailable fact at present is simply that the number of those who are medically capable at the top end of the age scale is small and as such in the minority percentage. I sincerely doubt any changes to current circumstances until that percentage figure increases to the majority. That will not be any time soon. There are more than enough capable younger crews around, I see no viable reason to increase the age limit to satiate the desires of a small minority - undemocratic.
Best Wishes.
Best Wishes.
The Original Whirly
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The unassailable fact at present is simply that the number of those who are medically capable at the top end of the age scale is small and as such in the minority percentage.
I see no viable reason to increase the age limit to satiate the desires of a small minority
The world is gradually realising that age discrimination is the same as any other discrimination for no good reason, ie unfair...and it's gradually being made illegal. Just a little too gradually for Ian, me, and MANY others.
History will look back and heads will shake in amazement that so-called intelligent people could make such decisions.
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WB:
If there has never been a reason then why was one instituted?
Best Wishes
There has never been a reason to have an age limit anyway, since we have medical requirements.
Best Wishes
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Agincourt,
I did not spend so much of my time and my supporter's money without first ensuring that the up to date medical evidence demonstrates your position (and that of the CAA) on the fitness of 60+ year olds is at least 20 years out of date.
I am not entirely surprised that the Industrial Tribunal has been insufficiently robust to rule against the CAA and untill I see their reasons (for which I must apply in writing) I won't know how they have ducked the issue. I always thought this process could lead me to the European courts ultimately and that any decision in our (old boys) favour would come too late for me personally.
All the indications I have seen are that many, many pilots of all ages agree with my position and that any blow for personal choice and freedom from an increasingly tyranical state so perfectly represented by the law makers and enforcers that is the unelected body which regulates us is worthwhile.
It's heartening to see that I am being offered moral and, indeed, financial support on this busiest weekend of the helicopter calender. A weekend on which there is such a shortage of suitably qualified aircrew that even I have been pressed into service.
I have no intention of giving up this just fight easily.
Ian Evans
I did not spend so much of my time and my supporter's money without first ensuring that the up to date medical evidence demonstrates your position (and that of the CAA) on the fitness of 60+ year olds is at least 20 years out of date.
I am not entirely surprised that the Industrial Tribunal has been insufficiently robust to rule against the CAA and untill I see their reasons (for which I must apply in writing) I won't know how they have ducked the issue. I always thought this process could lead me to the European courts ultimately and that any decision in our (old boys) favour would come too late for me personally.
All the indications I have seen are that many, many pilots of all ages agree with my position and that any blow for personal choice and freedom from an increasingly tyranical state so perfectly represented by the law makers and enforcers that is the unelected body which regulates us is worthwhile.
It's heartening to see that I am being offered moral and, indeed, financial support on this busiest weekend of the helicopter calender. A weekend on which there is such a shortage of suitably qualified aircrew that even I have been pressed into service.
I have no intention of giving up this just fight easily.
Ian Evans
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Can someone help with the real reason the age limit was introduced in the first place? Was it not something to do with a Fed (FAA official) and a job? Or is my brain playing tricks again - oh, dear, maybe THAT's the reason?!! Doh!
The Original Whirly
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Can someone help with the real reason the age limit was introduced in the first place?
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Can someone help with the real reason the age limit was introduced in the first place?
Cheers
Whirls
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"Shortage of qualified aircrew". Mmm... I'm sure there are PLENTY of 1,000+ hour instructors who would kill at the chance of some real commercial work. There's no shortage of pilots, just a shortage of operators who are unwilling to invest in pilots. They want something for nothing.
You're at it again, manfromuncle. There is definitely a shortage of pilots with relevant experience.
Please accept that a 1000hrs of piston instruction doesn't necessarily mean that you can handle a SPIFR twin turbine.
There is definitely a shortage of pilots with relevant experience.Please accept that a 1000hrs of piston instruction doesn't necessarily mean that you can handle a SPIFR twin turbine.