Land owner's permission?

[thecontroller]

found it

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/255...ermission.html

and

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/236...al-divide.html

[Agaricus bisporus]

Sid, - you have an unpleasant way of inventing personal "issues" where none were expressed, why do you need to do that? It sounds cheap. It is cheap.
You also seem to have a comprehension problem.

Several employers "did not feel the need to". How hard is that to understand? Clearly I did not make their policy.

But thanks for your patronising and unnecessary explanation anyway.
There's still no need to inform them - because its still not their concern, nor of any interest either I suspect. Do they really have the time to be regularly bothered with trivia like this? I doubt it very much.

Do we have to call the police before we fire a gun or put on a crash-helmet because "someone might think there is a robbery going on?" Or for any other legal activity for that matter? No, we do not.

If someone did report a suspected crash they'd be quizzed as to details, prior warning or not, and if there is any doubt the police are required to investigate further, so what have you gained? Absolutely nothing.
Sid, just because there may be specific times when you'd inform them (congested area, near busy public places etc) or the fire brigade or coastguard or even the local Bishop doesn't translate into you should do it every time, does it?

I wonder how much charter flying you've done? Most high-value clients prefer - and pay handsomely to come and go discreetly and without delay and rely on the discretion of the carrier to achieve that, so a bored copper popping up with his notebook out and officiously demanding details "just for the record, sir" -as they sometimes do - is unlikely to impress on occasions. You know the press monitor police radios, so you're asking to attract even more unwanted attention by doing this. Doesn't sound too good an idea to me.

Memo to silsoe sid; before slagging off, please read posts properly, dont make baseless wild assumptions/accusations and maybe engage just a little brain.

===================================================

Jim Ball, the act you refer to (Public Order act) was, I think, written to provide a way of dealing with a specific form of Criminal Trespass - namely Hare Coursing. The part you quoted refers specifically to "more than one person" who have refused to leave the land and have "caused damage or loss" or have "more than 6 vehicles on the land", though you'd have thought that all the above was already amply covered by the pre-existing laws, perhaps this illustrates how difficult it must be to prosecute for trespass, even with damage, refusal to leave, and driving all over farmers fields.

It doesn't seem to relate directly to the basiccommon law Trespass, for which you can't be arrested.

(Even so some might advise informing the plod before taking the dog for a walk so they won't have to respond when someone reports you for suspected hare coursing )

[SilsoeSid]

Agaricus bisporus;

There was me thinking that you were replying in all seriousness and trying to take me down a peg for merely expressing, that out of courtesy, sometimes it might be worth giving the local plod a call, until that is;

You know the press monitor police radios,

and I realised that you didn't really know what you were on about!

[SilsoeSid]

Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean that you shouldn't!

[SilsoeSid]

Do we have to call the police before we fire a gun

No, you still need the landowners, this time written, permission.
But wouldn't it still make sense to think about informing the local plod of what you were doing?

[SilsoeSid]

Ok so the message may not actually get passed on, but it might still be nice for the local neighbourhood plod to know. After all, they would know what other activities could be going on around your LS, or even give you such advice as, 'I hope you wont be staying there long as there won't be much left if you are!'

Not seen the video of the stones being thrown at the Air Ambo as it's taking off?
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/231...ambulance.html
or
THUGS TARGET AIR AMBULANCE; Youths even climbed on helicopter while patient was being treated inside.

[SilsoeSid]

Several employers "did not feel the need to". How hard is that to understand? Clearly I did not make their policy.

But what you actually said was;

But inform the Police? Why?
In all the years I flew into sites all over the country with several different companies I don't think we ever thought this necessary, what's it to do with them?

Sounds like, in all those years, you went with it without question. Did the different company policies actually say, 'Do not inform the local plod'?
Were you not allowed to express and practise your own 'airmanship' ?


I say again - "Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean that you shouldn't!"

[SilsoeSid]

Finally, as the dishwasher needs emptying, I guess this sums up Ab, from only 10 days ago;

I for one have never "seen" a risk assessment in my life,..

I thought a risk asessment was a bull**** phrase for bureaucrats just to say "no".

permalink



I guess that's what being a mushroom is all about

[thecontroller]

I landed at a hotel the other day for lunch and was told i had to fill in a form with all my details for the local police, as the police want to keep a track of these things. I wasn't very happy about this, the hotel said "the police has asked us to do this". I'm not sure of the legalities of this, data protection etc.

(It was a private flight and PPR had been arranged with the hotel well in advance)

[ShyTorque]

Rattle, As will have noted, this has often been a contentious issue and there is usually some dispute amongst contributors here!

I have been flying helicopters under both military and civilian rules for quite a long time (since the late 1970s); also under police ANO exemptions.

The best advice I can give is that it appears to be a grey area in UK law, so it's always best to ask in advance. If you do that, you will at least gauge the likely response of the landowner. Even with his/her prior permission, you will be expected to ensure 100% that no-one is endangered or upset, or put to expense, by any actions of yourself.

If you also inform the local police in advance and obtain an incident number (a simple routine phone call; don't abuse the 999 system to do it), you are covering your backside and hopefully preventing the police from unecessarily sending resources to investigate an incorrectly reported aircraft accident by a well meaning but poorly informed member of the public. The local non-emergency police numbers are published in the back of the Pooley's Guide or can be found by an internet search or in Yellow Pages.

Hope this helps.

[JimBall]

Blimey - so this one pops up again. Since Rattle's original 06 post we have of course been introduced to the new anti-terror laws.

So - imagine that you land without permission, get asked to leave and refuse. The landowner calls the police. They arrive to be greeted by your bolshie self quoting the ANO, no police authority, no law of trespass etc.

Any police officer would take that as an invitation to detain you under the anti-terror legislation. That's why they are telling hotels to provide details of helicopter movements - because they can.

And now that Lord West has disappeared with the old govt, let's hope we get some sense into the legislation. But I doubt it.

[thecontroller]

Considering you can get arrested for taking photographs these days, it's probably wise to get PPR before landing anywhere. If not from the landowner, then from the tenant, or anyone who would be affected by your landing (neighbors with horses etc). It's just common sense and courtesy. Not everyone likes helicopters turning up nearby like we do.

[Sam Rutherford]

My question was about the UK. Here in Belgium they're VERY anti-rotary. Actually, they're pretty anti-everything lighter than about 20T!

Why call Plod? In case someone calls them to say they've seen a helicopter 'crash' - in theory they can bring up your info and give you a call to check all okay.

There appears to still be a lack of clarity. CAA want PPR, the law doesn't?

As an example, landing on a beach - do I need the local council (or the Queen's) okay - or can I just go ahead and do it?

Cheers, Sam.

[chopjock]

So there you are one day, grovelling along in poor vis and you have to put down in a field. It would be somewhat impractical to get ppr from the land owner. It would be just as impractical to inform the police. Then IF the land owner comes over and asks you to leave three times and you can't yet, it would be nice to know the law and where you stand.
Out of all the 17 years I have been flying, I have put down hundreds of times and have never once been asked to leave. Sometimes even offered a cup of tea!

[thecontroller]

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/334...-uk-rules.html

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/174...k-beaches.html

[SilsoeSid]

So there you are one day, grovelling along in poor vis and you have to put down in a field.

Yawn,
chopjock, don't pretend that you don't know that your example is a totally different kettle of fish.

Look around and you'll find reference that pilots should not fear litigation when encountering deteriorating weather conditions or other state of emergency and it is only reasonable that any consequent damage to the property is compensated for. As a 'chop jock' you'll know your footprint will be little to none.

[SilsoeSid]

So there you are one day, grovelling along in poor vis and you have to put down in a field....
...Out of all the 17 years I have been flying, I have put down hundreds of times and have never once been asked to leave.

Would you like a Met refresher course?

[nigelh]

Silsoe ...is this a wind up or are just daft ??? Your idea of notifying plod is completely idiotic What is it about some of the pilots on here that makes them lose the power of common sense and judgement for themselves !! I have flown around this country for years and have never heard of any problems ........... We,ve had the NSea taxi drivers worrying about ash and wanting someone in authority to hold their hand and tell them when to fly ....now we,ve got you trying to involve the police in something that is NOTHING to do with them ....and NEVER should be Surely the CAA are enough for us to contend with .

ps just read your post above ....now you dont have to answer my question above .....it wasnt a wind up was it !!!!

[chopjock]

Would you like a Met refresher course?

Silso, do you only fly when the weather is fine? I suppose you never encounter unexpected bad wx then? Never had to put down somewhere? What do you do if there is low cloud in your path, not go?

[toptobottom]

Never had to put down somewhere?

chopjock, there's no doubt we've all to put down due to unexpected bad wx now and again, but not "hundreds of times" over a 17 year period!!!!!