Landing on beaches - UK Rules?
Thread Starter
Landing on beaches - UK Rules?
Anybody know what the rules are that govern helicopter landings on beaches within the UK?
Cheers, JJ
PS. I've done a forum search but not found any definite answer.
Cheers, JJ
PS. I've done a forum search but not found any definite answer.
Last edited by jellycopter; 7th Jul 2008 at 22:11.
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You coming up to Cromer, J? Most beaches are under the control of the Local Authority but there are a couple owned by the National Trust and some in private ownership.
Cheers
Whirls
...and check the tide tables!!!
Cheers
Whirls
...and check the tide tables!!!
I beleive it's what's called a 'grey area'. Custom and practice is that you can land between the low and high water marks as this is 'common land' (owner by the Queen, I think), but I don't think you'll find this is definitive.
Be careful of rule 5 (OK, before the bitching starts I know you are landing and taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice etc etc, but it's probably a good rule to follow when there are people about), and of course have complete confidence that you can restart the machine....
Cromer: I went to one of their 'heli fly-in's' last year....I was the only one who turned up! Nice crabs though
Be careful of rule 5 (OK, before the bitching starts I know you are landing and taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice etc etc, but it's probably a good rule to follow when there are people about), and of course have complete confidence that you can restart the machine....
Cromer: I went to one of their 'heli fly-in's' last year....I was the only one who turned up! Nice crabs though
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Jelly,
The big problem of landing on a beach is the state of the sand, when damp sand (ie tide gone out, or comming in)is subject to vibration such as the vibes put thru the skids when the engine is running up or down you can get a situation know as Liquifaction(spelling) its when the water level is forced up to the surface, at that point you could get uneven sink rates or even one skid well stuck in.
dry sand has already been discussed, so beware !......I was always told never land on a tidal beach!
Peter R-B
The big problem of landing on a beach is the state of the sand, when damp sand (ie tide gone out, or comming in)is subject to vibration such as the vibes put thru the skids when the engine is running up or down you can get a situation know as Liquifaction(spelling) its when the water level is forced up to the surface, at that point you could get uneven sink rates or even one skid well stuck in.
dry sand has already been discussed, so beware !......I was always told never land on a tidal beach!
Peter R-B
Thread Starter
Many thanks for the replies thus far, but still not a great deal of help I'm afraid. Surely there must be someone in PPruneland that knows the answer. Here's hoping............
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Hi Jelly,
I think you can land below high tide mark, as already stated, but can't justify my belief!
Btw, UJ, the military operate under different regs, as Jelly knows, so not much real help might be forthcoming from that source.
I think you can land below high tide mark, as already stated, but can't justify my belief!
Btw, UJ, the military operate under different regs, as Jelly knows, so not much real help might be forthcoming from that source.
"the military operate under different regs ....."
Well I never! Shy Torque, specialist subject ......
Jack
PS Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion.
Well I never! Shy Torque, specialist subject ......
Jack
PS Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion.
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Union Jack, whilst it is not denied that there could be some contributors to Military Aircrew forum who will know the civilian rules (ANO etc), jellycopter will not be able to operate under the military rules 
.
If the landowner of a beach is the Queen, then the Armed Forces probably have her carte blanche permission to land whereas us normal mortals would have to get permission from a Local Authority, have the request passed round 6 different people until they work out whose responsibility it is, have a Council meeting, have a Health & Safety briefing, bury the request in soft peat for three months and hope you go away.
Jelly, a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud; maybe someone there could help.
Cheers
Whirls
.If the landowner of a beach is the Queen, then the Armed Forces probably have her carte blanche permission to land whereas us normal mortals would have to get permission from a Local Authority, have the request passed round 6 different people until they work out whose responsibility it is, have a Council meeting, have a Health & Safety briefing, bury the request in soft peat for three months and hope you go away.
Jelly, a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud; maybe someone there could help.
Cheers
Whirls
"jellycopter will not be able to operate under the military rules "
Cheers, Whirls - totally understood, thank you, as I am sure was the spirit behind my suggestion, nicely paraphrased in your own words, namely "that there could be some contributors to Military Aircrew forum who will know the civilian rules" who might therefore be kind enough to provide the type of information that Jelly is "seaking" - sorry - seeking, irrespective of how, where, and what they do themselves. Hence my PS, which said "Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion."
My apologies if this was not sufficiently clear for you.
Jack
PS "a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud"
In which case they should certainly know about liquefaction!
"Cheers, Whirls - totally understood, thank you, as I am sure was the spirit behind my suggestion, nicely paraphrased in your own words, namely "that there could be some contributors to Military Aircrew forum who will know the civilian rules" who might therefore be kind enough to provide the type of information that Jelly is "seaking" - sorry - seeking, irrespective of how, where, and what they do themselves. Hence my PS, which said "Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion.
" My apologies if this was not sufficiently clear for you.
Jack
PS "a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud"
In which case they should certainly know about liquefaction!
You do not need landowner's permission to land in the UK, subject to the requirements of Rule 5. (If landing near an event or in a congested area).
However, if you land somewhere and the owner or owner's representative asks you to leave, you must go within 3 "asks" or you will have committed a breach of an 18th century trespass law.
If you damage anything that the owner/freeholder has put on the land, you will be responsible for the damage.
The definition of freehold is the right to fence a piece of land. Ultimately, the Crown owns all land in the UK. It's what you put on the land (crops, buildings etc) that is your property.
However, if you land somewhere and the owner or owner's representative asks you to leave, you must go within 3 "asks" or you will have committed a breach of an 18th century trespass law.
If you damage anything that the owner/freeholder has put on the land, you will be responsible for the damage.
The definition of freehold is the right to fence a piece of land. Ultimately, the Crown owns all land in the UK. It's what you put on the land (crops, buildings etc) that is your property.
Thread Starter
Many thanks to all for your additional contributions; JimBall in particular.
I suppose the only real problem I can see may now be the 'congested area' rules. Given that the ANO states that a Congested Area is any part of a town or settlement substantially used for industrial, residential or recreational purposes (or words to that effect!). I guess a beach could be described as 'substantially used for recreational purposes' if it is part to a town.
As an aside, how can you define the area of a beach where one may be permitted to land as being between the high and low watermarks? Surely the land below the low water mark is the sea! Therefore, landing below the high water mark is all that's required?
Guess I'll just have to get on with it and wait for the seagull droppings to hit the fan.
Cheers
JJ
I suppose the only real problem I can see may now be the 'congested area' rules. Given that the ANO states that a Congested Area is any part of a town or settlement substantially used for industrial, residential or recreational purposes (or words to that effect!). I guess a beach could be described as 'substantially used for recreational purposes' if it is part to a town.
As an aside, how can you define the area of a beach where one may be permitted to land as being between the high and low watermarks? Surely the land below the low water mark is the sea! Therefore, landing below the high water mark is all that's required?
Guess I'll just have to get on with it and wait for the seagull droppings to hit the fan.
Cheers
JJ