Land owner's permission?
 

With respect to the land owner's permission rule for landing, if a friend rents his house, do we need to speak to the Landlord to get permission from him before we can land? I assume the "land owner" part of the rule is indeed just that, but for a farmer or similar renting acres of land?
Apologies to those who will now remind me that I am stupid because I have answered my own question.

No doubt there will be lots of answers on this, the permission bit gets discussed a bit in this thread, but from the point of view of a residential landlord.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ner+permission

V.

There was a thread a while back where IIRC Flying Lawyer stated that he could not find anywhere the legal basis for the requirement to obtain landowner's permission before landing on his or her property.

it was mentioned in this thread

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/236...al-divide.html

i think this rule is a myth and doesnt actually exist in law

Thanks Veeany, we were typing at the same time. Having read through that thread again, I see that my memory was correct, and PPR is not a legal requirement in this situation, just a courtesy and a sensible thing to do.

cue the Flying Lawyer:}

I've posted this before, but I can't remember the thread:

In UK, the owner of a piece of land does not need special permission to use it as a Helicopter Landing Site provided it is not in a congested area (ANO), and it is only for private or business use, that of any employees, or people specifically visiting for social or business purposes (non ANO). No structure must be erected in connection with its use for helicopters, aside from temporary ones (such as windsocks), otherwise the Planning Permission (Zoning) people will become interested - there's no need to notify them of anything unless the land is to be used as a helipad on more than 28 days in any year. In fact, current planning regulations allow a helicopter to be used for personal, business and leisure uses "as many people use a private car" from the owner's dwelling house without limitation, making it exempt from planning control, provided the use is incidental, or ancillary to, the principal use of the land.

If you rent any house or land, you are usually the "landowner" for this purpose for the duration of your rental, so permission from the real landowner may not be required, but you would naturally need to check any leases or covenants that you may have signed that may negate this.

Phil

Colonal Mustard

Rattle: Could you supply the rule to which you refer ? It's not in any of my docs.

here's my thinking:

in regards to whether or not the landowner's permission rule exists, i would assume that it's trespassing to land on one's property without permission, just like driving down a private road would be.

but, since a rentee/leasee can invite you into the house (give you permission to be on the property), they can give you permission to land on the property that they are renting, as long as their contract with the owner does not prohibit that.

Trespassing?
Like walking up the private path to someone's front door without prior permission? :confused:

Here's a hint:

Land OWNER.

:}

It differs from Country to Country. So which country are we talking about?

UK. No permission needed
USA. Permission needed

France. Written permission needed
Austria. Written permission needed
Germany. Written permission needed
The Netherlands. Written permission needed

Hiller Bee
Looks like it only differs in the UK! :confused:

well, it's tricky. walking to the front door is one thing, as you're going to speak to the land owner.

but, say you walked on the private path, made a right, and walked into their backyard when they weren't home. that's trespassing. just like driving down a private road is, if they don't want you there. being on someone's property without their permission (if they don't want you there) is trespassing, and i can't imagine why landing an aircraft on it would be any different.

You've brought in another factor - "if they don't want you there".

There had to be one...
But is seems from the general replies, it is legal in the UK. Thank you all.

My laymans understanding is that if there is no gate or fence to prevent you entering a property it is not trespassing.
However it becomes trespassing if you are asked to leave and you do not.

So perhaps landing without permission on a country estate that is completely walled with locked gates would get a less favourable result in court than landing without permission on a property without fences or with open gates.


Creaser

There is an implied permission in the UK for people to walk on property, because, after all, you want your letters and newspapers delivered, etc. However, you can specifically cancel that permission, such as the TV licence guys.

Bearing in mind that the "man on the Capham Omnibus" is used as a yardstick in English (not Scottish) law, meaning that judgements are applied according to what a reasonable person would think, I would suggest that landing a helicopter (unless in an emergency) on someone's property would be difficult to justify against walking up the garden path. The same would apply to opening a door having walked up said path.

Phil

i seem to remember reading somewhere that in the UK "trespassing" is not illegal, and all these "tresspassers will be prosecuted" signs were not enforcable by any law

any lawyers out there?