What are the job prospects for new CPLs? (MERGED)
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It seems acceptable to complete a Single Engine IR and then get converted by one of the North Sea three to a twin type for their ops.
Since Bristow's are the only ones in the UK with a single engine IR course that's one way to go. I haven't heard of the non-Bristow companies having a problem with Bristow's IR; I don't see why they should, from what I hear it's a good course.
Having said that, cost-wise, the various twin courses around are not much different in price and you come out with a twin rating (the Bristow course does not include a 206 rating).
As I'm looking at these options right now, I do feel rather nervous at putting down so much money simply to be able to apply for a job...I imagine the bank will feel the same way!
BG
Since Bristow's are the only ones in the UK with a single engine IR course that's one way to go. I haven't heard of the non-Bristow companies having a problem with Bristow's IR; I don't see why they should, from what I hear it's a good course.
Having said that, cost-wise, the various twin courses around are not much different in price and you come out with a twin rating (the Bristow course does not include a 206 rating).
As I'm looking at these options right now, I do feel rather nervous at putting down so much money simply to be able to apply for a job...I imagine the bank will feel the same way!
BG
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Pandalet,
my company have hired plenty of people with single IR's, then they have also hired plenty with twin IR's. and I was lucky enough to be hired with no IR, which they nicely paid for.
but given 2 equal people they will go for the twin IR person, it all depends on who they have got on there list at the time.
BaronG,
you are right to feel nervous as the chance of not being hired is high, your problem however is you are competing against people who will take that risk.
this is not a career where you can look coldly at the figures and justify them to a bank/accountant. the risk/return ratio is to high to be sensible, however most people who persist and are "driven" make it in the end.
in the past like when I joined at the start of the century it was not a neccesity to have an IR as they were paying for them, but it is becoming increasingly more of a standard requirement.
regards
CF
my company have hired plenty of people with single IR's, then they have also hired plenty with twin IR's. and I was lucky enough to be hired with no IR, which they nicely paid for.
but given 2 equal people they will go for the twin IR person, it all depends on who they have got on there list at the time.
BaronG,
you are right to feel nervous as the chance of not being hired is high, your problem however is you are competing against people who will take that risk.
this is not a career where you can look coldly at the figures and justify them to a bank/accountant. the risk/return ratio is to high to be sensible, however most people who persist and are "driven" make it in the end.
in the past like when I joined at the start of the century it was not a neccesity to have an IR as they were paying for them, but it is becoming increasingly more of a standard requirement.
regards
CF
Last edited by Camp Freddie; 6th Jul 2006 at 09:27.
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Originally Posted by MD900 Explorer
RJC
I would certainly have done all my research into the various flying establishments, before i started to put £40k+ into getting an CPL-H. I would also advise to only do a normal CPL instead of as frozen ATPL-H, because if you havent got the IR component within 3 years of passing the exams you lose the entitlement and have to resit the 8 or 9 exams, and for what.
Doing an IR before you have a minimum of 500 hours is IMHO a waste of time unless you know someone in any one of the North Sea Companies. There is alot to be said for where you do your training, because certain operators prefer their students to have gone to certain institutions.
Whilst you are going through your CPL-H training, you should probably go modular. This equals potentailly more hours after training and the ability for you to work in IT and train at your own pace, making contacts and getting pally with your flight school. If your flying school is small enough and does some commercial work, you should enquire whilst you are doing your PPL-H and Commercial theory exams to work as ground crew for these companies. This will give you an insight to ramp work.
If the operations dude likes you and you get repeat work, you may get the opportunity to get some supervised ops work when you have qualified. NEVER bite the hand that feeds you and try not to burn any bridges on your tempestous route into helicopter aviation, as this is a very small world and a rumour is all it takes to mess up your career. So from the moment you have your JAR Class1 Medical in your hands, start creating the contacts and speak to people. Be open and welcoming and definately not demanding. Look at what you can give to your future employer and not what your future employer can give you (Type ratings on his bill and not yours etc).
Take skills with you to your future employer. Getting an ADR cert for tanks wouldnt be a bad idea. Some sort of ground handling experience and ops experience is a start. The rest will happen if carefully planned.
MD
I would certainly have done all my research into the various flying establishments, before i started to put £40k+ into getting an CPL-H. I would also advise to only do a normal CPL instead of as frozen ATPL-H, because if you havent got the IR component within 3 years of passing the exams you lose the entitlement and have to resit the 8 or 9 exams, and for what.
Doing an IR before you have a minimum of 500 hours is IMHO a waste of time unless you know someone in any one of the North Sea Companies. There is alot to be said for where you do your training, because certain operators prefer their students to have gone to certain institutions.
Whilst you are going through your CPL-H training, you should probably go modular. This equals potentailly more hours after training and the ability for you to work in IT and train at your own pace, making contacts and getting pally with your flight school. If your flying school is small enough and does some commercial work, you should enquire whilst you are doing your PPL-H and Commercial theory exams to work as ground crew for these companies. This will give you an insight to ramp work.
If the operations dude likes you and you get repeat work, you may get the opportunity to get some supervised ops work when you have qualified. NEVER bite the hand that feeds you and try not to burn any bridges on your tempestous route into helicopter aviation, as this is a very small world and a rumour is all it takes to mess up your career. So from the moment you have your JAR Class1 Medical in your hands, start creating the contacts and speak to people. Be open and welcoming and definately not demanding. Look at what you can give to your future employer and not what your future employer can give you (Type ratings on his bill and not yours etc).
Take skills with you to your future employer. Getting an ADR cert for tanks wouldnt be a bad idea. Some sort of ground handling experience and ops experience is a start. The rest will happen if carefully planned.
MD
This is all correct, but it's really very simple!
You can't start a career change like this without having finance to back it up with. Be prepared to spend some serious money and lots of hard work if you want a career in aviation. Belive me, there is no easy or cheap way around it.
This is what I know several successful JAA helicopter pilots have done:
1.FAA flight training in the US, with the possibility for getting an Instructor Job over there after and build (hopefully) about a 1000+ flight hr's.
2.Enrolled with a UK ground school for JAA ATPL ground training after.
The JAA CPL-H flight check can in fact be done with a helicopter flight school in Florida.
It is also much cheaper to train in the US and a good way to gain some flight experience. (Which I think is a critical factor for employment in Europe/UK.)
Good Luck!
WingRotor
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Very informative discusion, I've probably learnt more spending 10 mins reading this than the past year searching for a similar points.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only civilian route that has really been talked about is the modular route to acheiving the commercial licence, is taking the intergrated approach to much of a risk? Bearing in mind the cost/low flying hours etc? if I went this route would I have to spent X amout extra to acheive additional hours/ratings before empolyers will even consider me?
As I'm young, does that put me in a better or worse situation?
Cheers
Seb
Unless I'm mistaken, the only civilian route that has really been talked about is the modular route to acheiving the commercial licence, is taking the intergrated approach to much of a risk? Bearing in mind the cost/low flying hours etc? if I went this route would I have to spent X amout extra to acheive additional hours/ratings before empolyers will even consider me?
As I'm young, does that put me in a better or worse situation?
Cheers
Seb
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SebW,
I think it is more of a risk, you are commited to doing it all in 1 year at the speed cabair or whoever it is run it, you cannot continue to work full time while this is going on, which means yo should add loss of earnings to the cost,
IMO it is a foolish person who gives up their main source of income to become a helicopter pilot, especially when the modular route can be taken at your own pace.
also remember on integrated route you get only a CPL, you never get a PPL as far as i understand it, so stopping to reflect on things after your PPL is not an option
yes above arguments still apply, you still need to hourbuild to get FI rating or IR etc
i cant see that it makes any difference except you could try and join the military and get all your training for free, I was too old for that option.
regards
CF
is taking the intergrated approach to much of a risk? Bearing in mind the cost/low flying hours etc?
IMO it is a foolish person who gives up their main source of income to become a helicopter pilot, especially when the modular route can be taken at your own pace.
also remember on integrated route you get only a CPL, you never get a PPL as far as i understand it, so stopping to reflect on things after your PPL is not an option
if I went this route would I have to spent X amout extra to acheive additional hours/ratings before empolyers will even consider me?
As I'm young, does that put me in a better or worse situation?
regards
CF
Last edited by Camp Freddie; 13th Jul 2006 at 22:03.
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Many thanks for the quick reply. Totally agree, I think the best step for me now is to get the PPL and go from there. The main reason I was considering the intergrated route was to spend 100% of my time learning the necessary and not have to worry about my job - but if the likelyhood of employment after that is poor, it'll be better the long route!
Cheers
Cheers
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All,
Many thanks for all the replies, e-mails and PMs. This thread has made for interesting reading. There is some good advice in here, from all sides. I have sat back and taken in what people have said.
The FI stuff is interesting, I will look into that. I spent a few years teaching people to ride motorbikes, at weekends (for those old enough, in the UK, who may remember the old Part 1 and 2 tests and the early days of CBTs). Now, the pay from that just about covered the petrol - but it was done more for the enjoyment than the money. Although, the students didn't often try to kill me on the road...{as a complete aside, when an MZ bike stalls at traffic lights and starts backwards (2 stroke), and the student tries to pull away in a fluster - the face of the driver in the car behind is an amazing sight}
I have friends recently emigrated to NZ and Auz, so perhaps some visits to see them, and a look around down there is on the cards too. If nothing more than looking at a bit of hour building later down the line.
Anyway, I have kicked things off, Class 1 is booked.... without that, I'm stuffed from the start anyway.
Many thanks for all the replies, e-mails and PMs. This thread has made for interesting reading. There is some good advice in here, from all sides. I have sat back and taken in what people have said.
The FI stuff is interesting, I will look into that. I spent a few years teaching people to ride motorbikes, at weekends (for those old enough, in the UK, who may remember the old Part 1 and 2 tests and the early days of CBTs). Now, the pay from that just about covered the petrol - but it was done more for the enjoyment than the money. Although, the students didn't often try to kill me on the road...{as a complete aside, when an MZ bike stalls at traffic lights and starts backwards (2 stroke), and the student tries to pull away in a fluster - the face of the driver in the car behind is an amazing sight}
I have friends recently emigrated to NZ and Auz, so perhaps some visits to see them, and a look around down there is on the cards too. If nothing more than looking at a bit of hour building later down the line.
Anyway, I have kicked things off, Class 1 is booked.... without that, I'm stuffed from the start anyway.
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What are the job prospects for new pilots??
I am looking at doing and CPL course. I've looked around most of the schools, added all the costs up......
It's a lot of money to retrain, but it's my dream job.
I am a bit worried that there are no jobs for new pilots.
I was planning to do my IR as everyone say's it's a must. But I am still only going to have 200 odd hours.
I want to do EMS, but I know it's a few years off.
Are there any new pilots here that can't get jobs.
What other options are there for me work in the US? I don't fancy being an instructor.
Peter
It's a lot of money to retrain, but it's my dream job.
I am a bit worried that there are no jobs for new pilots.
I was planning to do my IR as everyone say's it's a must. But I am still only going to have 200 odd hours.
I want to do EMS, but I know it's a few years off.
Are there any new pilots here that can't get jobs.
What other options are there for me work in the US? I don't fancy being an instructor.
Peter
Dr Peter (head shrinker?),
I'm a long way from being where you are, but I think you probably need to get your head around instructing...a very valuable skill and a way to earn (and I do mean earn) the hours you'll need later on to get into the EMS world. To put a positive spin on instructing, you'll REALLY get to know yourself as a flyer when you instruct...for starters you'll need to be really confident in yourself as an aviator to be confident you can teach others to do it.
Anyway, thats my two cents, bob, sheckles worth...good luck breaking into the industry...hope you find something you like to do...if not, good luck instructing.
HP
I'm a long way from being where you are, but I think you probably need to get your head around instructing...a very valuable skill and a way to earn (and I do mean earn) the hours you'll need later on to get into the EMS world. To put a positive spin on instructing, you'll REALLY get to know yourself as a flyer when you instruct...for starters you'll need to be really confident in yourself as an aviator to be confident you can teach others to do it.
Anyway, thats my two cents, bob, sheckles worth...good luck breaking into the industry...hope you find something you like to do...if not, good luck instructing.
HP
Hello (again) Peter,
Further to my post to you in the Wannabes section (don't worry, you're welcome
), here's a link to the FAQ post that I mentioned:
Older Training FAQ.
I suggest that you take the time to read through the various threads. Most of your questions have already been answered.
I am a bit worried that there are no jobs for new pilots. There are jobs available, you just need to know where to find them. In the UK and the US, most of the entry level jobs are instructing.
I was planning to do my IR as everyone say's it's a must. Who exactly is 'everyone'? Don't confuse the fixed wing world with how things operate in rotary. Only certain jobs in the rotary world require an IR. Few of these jobs are for newbies.
Are there any new pilots here that can't get jobs. Lots and lots and lots.
I don't fancy being an instructor. Good luck to you then. See the above point.
Further to my post to you in the Wannabes section (don't worry, you're welcome
), here's a link to the FAQ post that I mentioned:Older Training FAQ.
I suggest that you take the time to read through the various threads. Most of your questions have already been answered.
I am a bit worried that there are no jobs for new pilots. There are jobs available, you just need to know where to find them. In the UK and the US, most of the entry level jobs are instructing.
I was planning to do my IR as everyone say's it's a must. Who exactly is 'everyone'? Don't confuse the fixed wing world with how things operate in rotary. Only certain jobs in the rotary world require an IR. Few of these jobs are for newbies.
Are there any new pilots here that can't get jobs. Lots and lots and lots.
I don't fancy being an instructor. Good luck to you then. See the above point.
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I'm looking to do my training at HAI in USA.
If I do a CFI. Can I expect to get paid for teaching or is it just fly for free and build your hours up? What do you need to have 1000 I am guessing.
Where can I go to get twin engine experience even if I have to pay for it.
If I do a CFI. Can I expect to get paid for teaching or is it just fly for free and build your hours up? What do you need to have 1000 I am guessing.
Where can I go to get twin engine experience even if I have to pay for it.
Hovering AND talking
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Dr Peter,
I’m afraid you are going to have to do a lot of research as there will be many questions that only you can answer as it’s only you who knows your circumstances and what you want out of life.
However, if you haven’t already downloaded it, I recommend LASORS for UK JAA rules and regs regarding licences and all things aviating. It is a large .pdf file but worth it. Or you can buy it as a book.
First things first – have you flown a helicopter? If not, get a trial lesson – you might find it’s not for you.
Secondly – get a Class 1 medical (CAA website for details). If you can’t get this, your career ain’t gonna happen in the UK.
If you want to work in the States, better have a word with the American embassy with regard to visas.
If you want to fly a twin and are prepared to pay for it, then you can go anywhere you want! In the UK, it would cost about £800 - 1,000 per hour.
Cheers
Whirls
I’m afraid you are going to have to do a lot of research as there will be many questions that only you can answer as it’s only you who knows your circumstances and what you want out of life.
However, if you haven’t already downloaded it, I recommend LASORS for UK JAA rules and regs regarding licences and all things aviating. It is a large .pdf file but worth it. Or you can buy it as a book.
First things first – have you flown a helicopter? If not, get a trial lesson – you might find it’s not for you.
Secondly – get a Class 1 medical (CAA website for details). If you can’t get this, your career ain’t gonna happen in the UK.
If you want to work in the States, better have a word with the American embassy with regard to visas.
If you want to fly a twin and are prepared to pay for it, then you can go anywhere you want! In the UK, it would cost about £800 - 1,000 per hour.
Cheers
Whirls
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Dr Peter,
My two penn'orth...
You'll find there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I have drawn upon it myself having been assisted by some very knowledgeable and experienced individuals who have given their time to assist me and other newbies. It is not a place just to fire off question after question then sit back and wait for others to do the work. Good manners dictate that if folk go out of their way, as they have, to assist you, you might at least have the decency to acknowledge their replies, thank them for their help and then do some of the legwork yourself.
If you are so worried at this early stage about the doom & gloom aspects of flying helicopters professionally then perhaps it's just not for you?
Ok, I'll get back in my box now - I've been working nights and your posts made me grumpy
DBChopper
My two penn'orth...
You'll find there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I have drawn upon it myself having been assisted by some very knowledgeable and experienced individuals who have given their time to assist me and other newbies. It is not a place just to fire off question after question then sit back and wait for others to do the work. Good manners dictate that if folk go out of their way, as they have, to assist you, you might at least have the decency to acknowledge their replies, thank them for their help and then do some of the legwork yourself.
If you are so worried at this early stage about the doom & gloom aspects of flying helicopters professionally then perhaps it's just not for you?
Ok, I'll get back in my box now - I've been working nights and your posts made me grumpy
DBChopper
The Original Whirly
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dr Peter,
I can't really add much to what others have said - do a search, read old threads, look at all the info that's here already.
However, you should know that this is not an industry for those who want a secure, reliable, wellpaid, pensionable job. You might be lucky and get one of those, but most likely you'll have to do anything that comes along for a few....months, years, who knows. Instructing is paid, and is fun, but if you don't fancy it, don't inflict yourself on the poor students who are paying for you to teach them.
That's about all I can offer right now. You do rather give the impression that this industry isn't for you, though I'm ready to be proved wrong.
I can't really add much to what others have said - do a search, read old threads, look at all the info that's here already.
However, you should know that this is not an industry for those who want a secure, reliable, wellpaid, pensionable job. You might be lucky and get one of those, but most likely you'll have to do anything that comes along for a few....months, years, who knows. Instructing is paid, and is fun, but if you don't fancy it, don't inflict yourself on the poor students who are paying for you to teach them.
That's about all I can offer right now. You do rather give the impression that this industry isn't for you, though I'm ready to be proved wrong.
dr_peter:
FLY FOR FREE? A CFI is a professional pilot and should expect to get paid - people who undervalue their skills keep wages low in this industry.
FLY FOR FREE? A CFI is a professional pilot and should expect to get paid - people who undervalue their skills keep wages low in this industry.
Last edited by rudestuff; 2nd Sep 2006 at 19:40.
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what jobs Opportunities are there for new pilots
Hi All, I'm new to this Forum and i was wondering if anyone could help?. I'm looking to start my PPL in the UK early in the new year, followed by my CPL once i've got the hours in. i'm hoping to be completed in 18 months to 2 years.
As all you pilots out there can appreciate this is not a cheap matter and as i'm looking to pay for this myself i need to be sure there are jobs out there for new pilots. Could anyone tell me what job opportunities
are there for new pilots and what sort of money they pay??
As all you pilots out there can appreciate this is not a cheap matter and as i'm looking to pay for this myself i need to be sure there are jobs out there for new pilots. Could anyone tell me what job opportunities
are there for new pilots and what sort of money they pay??
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Welcome to the forum.
There's lots of information here: Frequently Asked Questions
You can also use the 'Search' facility to find more.
Heliport
There's lots of information here: Frequently Asked Questions
You can also use the 'Search' facility to find more.
Heliport
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What are the job prospects for new pilots??
Hi all, i'm new to this forum and am after for some information. I'm looking to start my PPl early next year and continue on to take my Commercial (CPL) (once i've got the hours in) and I'm allowing myself 18 months to 2 years to achieve both.
The thing is i'm looking to pay for the training myself which i'm sure everyone can appreciate is not cheap. once trained i'll be looking for work and i was wondering if anyone knew what the sort of jobs (UK Based) would be available for new pilots and what sort of money thay would pay ?
The thing is i'm looking to pay for the training myself which i'm sure everyone can appreciate is not cheap. once trained i'll be looking for work and i was wondering if anyone knew what the sort of jobs (UK Based) would be available for new pilots and what sort of money thay would pay ?