ATPL(H) is equal to a PHD
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Back in the mists of time (ok about 8 years ago) the CAA ATPL became part of the GNVQ system and I believe that an ATPL IR was given the same level as a degree. Certainly the ATPL exams were a lot easier having had a degree in Engineering. Comparable? I don't think so. Chalk and cheese. The engineering degree was much harder work and took much longer, but was structured to give one a tool box to take into industry (and was certainly not a memory test). The ATPL is a bunch of hoops of varying relevance designed meerly as a selection process. Different courses for different purposes. The important part of training (and this applies to doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers, in fact any profession/trade including flying) is what happens after the formal piece of paper arrives in the post. On the job training is what counts and what makes a helicopter pilot/doctor/lawyer/engineer employable.
As for social standing, that depends on how long you've spent in the industry. A 500hr pilot believes he is right up there next to a brain surgeon. The 5000hr pilot knows he is nomadic gypsy driving whichever bus has an empty seat in the front.
As for social standing, that depends on how long you've spent in the industry. A 500hr pilot believes he is right up there next to a brain surgeon. The 5000hr pilot knows he is nomadic gypsy driving whichever bus has an empty seat in the front.
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I went the OU route and studied encryption, robotics, mobile communications and other modules for a BSc and that was a doddle (you can get 30 points and good passes on OU course modules with 10 hours study). So, I would suggest that the ATPL is easily worth more than 30 points of a degree.
i4iq
OU Points:
If an RAF pilot joined and:
Passed basic flying
Passed basic jet
Passed advanced jet
Got medically downgraded (bear with me, I want him to have the course ticked off!)
Passed the long Multi engine course;
He or she would be able to claim 130 OU points toward a BSc (hons) needing 360.
All of the points claimed would be at Level 1: first year study level.
Current RAF bods will be able to put a study time on that lot, but I'd say it beats ATPL ground study.
And gets you through the first year.
CG
OU Points:
If an RAF pilot joined and:
Passed basic flying
Passed basic jet
Passed advanced jet
Got medically downgraded (bear with me, I want him to have the course ticked off!)
Passed the long Multi engine course;
He or she would be able to claim 130 OU points toward a BSc (hons) needing 360.
All of the points claimed would be at Level 1: first year study level.
Current RAF bods will be able to put a study time on that lot, but I'd say it beats ATPL ground study.
And gets you through the first year.
CG
The 5000hr pilot knows he is nomadic gypsy driving whichever bus has an empty seat in the front.
Hey - do we know each other! How did you get inside my life...
Interestingly; with my hours and multi time the Australian Uni offering Aviation Degrees offered me half a credit towards a Master of Aviation Management
Hey - do we know each other! How did you get inside my life...
Interestingly; with my hours and multi time the Australian Uni offering Aviation Degrees offered me half a credit towards a Master of Aviation Management
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I'm on second half of ATPL(H) exams at the moment. The structure of the distance learning course makes it difficult as you are doing so many subjects that are examined over a short period. Individually, they would be far easier and I wonder how the JAA/CAA system will evolve if it becomes computerised - this would make it easier to invigilate the examinee's choice of exam.
As others have commented, BSc's vary widely in quality between country, institution, subject and final grade achieved. The ATPL(H) exams have no grading except pass/fail (there are some issues i don't know about here with future employer's interest in this).
There's also a (grading or CV) penalty with degrees or A-levels in doing resits which i don't think is necessarily there for ATPL(H) exams, bar the 60 quid and time factor? That is going to leave more scope for gambling on getting the pass mark and give the impression that they are easier.
I found Bristol ground school to be very good for 'making' you pass the exams. They are not there to teach the syllabus or subject during the 2 week brush-up course, they are very focused on preparing you for the exam. I don't think universities have a direct equivalent to this (maybe sloppy use of past questions or private/1:1 tuition?).
So, i don't believe you'll find an easy equivalence! The nearest thing to a comparison i can draw is study time. My personal estimate of study time would be around 450-500hrs of intense study for ATPL(H). For my (respectable) science BSc, a wild guesstimate would be a surprising-to-me 3000hrs. Apply a realistic 50% attention span for lectures and it comes down to 2000hrs
(UK) MSc's vary big-time according to teaching vs research content, conversion courses, and whether it's the student's BSc field. Plus they have a very limited grade structure so they're useless for comparion.
Don't have a PhD so can't speak on that, yet...
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At the risk of sounding elitist, I've trained a fair number of experienced pilots to be engineering / experimental test pilots, and the amount of things they did not understand about the basics of flying (physics and maths) would make it silly to consider an ATPL as equivalent to any degree. Same for an Instrument Rating.
Passed an apprenticeship perhaps, but not close to any degree.
Passed an apprenticeship perhaps, but not close to any degree.
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silly to consider an ATPL as equivalent to any degree
If you said equivalent to a real degree from a real university I'd say you're right but a "degree" in leisure studies, football, media studies, golf course management, make-up, fashion, cookery, carpentry, plumbing and so on?
The Original Whirly
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You can't compare them. They're different types of learning, and definitely different types of exams.
Many people reckon that essay type exams are harder than multiple choice. But it depends on the person. I've always been good at knowing a little bit about a subject, but being able to write well enough to sound like an expert. At university, this skill got me a good degree without much work - I spent most of my three years in the pub. Later, much later, I discovered I had a marketable skill - I could do research and writing, and didn't really have to do that much research!
But the CPL exams? I had to know the facts. I had to work! It was a rude awakening.
My point is, don't make too many generalisations about these things.
Many people reckon that essay type exams are harder than multiple choice. But it depends on the person. I've always been good at knowing a little bit about a subject, but being able to write well enough to sound like an expert. At university, this skill got me a good degree without much work - I spent most of my three years in the pub. Later, much later, I discovered I had a marketable skill - I could do research and writing, and didn't really have to do that much research!
But the CPL exams? I had to know the facts. I had to work! It was a rude awakening.
My point is, don't make too many generalisations about these things.
