ATPL(H) is equal to a PHD
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From: Trinidad
ATPL(H) is equal to a PHD
What is the UK academic equivalent of a UK CAA ATPL(H). Is it equal to or less than a Bsc, Msc or Phd. Any references will be appreciated
Last edited by Dangagan; 12th November 2006 at 19:32.
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NQF
There is a thing called the National Qualifcation Framework (NQF) which lets you compare levels of various courses/qualifications. If the answer is anywhere it is there! For example after much consulatation with CAA I have established the PPL is at least level 3. (A-levels). So ATPL must be higher.
http://www.qca.org.uk/493_15772.html
PHD is level 8 by the way.
http://www.qca.org.uk/493_15772.html
PHD is level 8 by the way.
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Ok, so a few 'o' levels then. 
If getting a phd or degree is as easy as passing the atpl exams, I think i'll be enrolling very soon.
I don't think you can compare the two. One is higher learning and proof of learning. The other is an extended memory test with a lot of useless information. I'll let you decide which one is which.
If getting a phd or degree is as easy as passing the atpl exams, I think i'll be enrolling very soon.
I don't think you can compare the two. One is higher learning and proof of learning. The other is an extended memory test with a lot of useless information. I'll let you decide which one is which.
Tightgit
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From: The artist formerly known as john du'pruyting
From actual experience. The Complete ATPL(H) correspondence course I did with Trent, was given a value of 30 points (in those days 1/2 credit) by the OU. (I think you need 360 points for an BA/BSc honours degree).
Last edited by handysnaks; 12th November 2006 at 21:46. Reason: missing a bracket
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From: London
I consider an ATPL to be the equivalent of a Degree.
Years ago, in the days when having a Degree really meant something, the argument against regarding it as equivalent would have been that it's a practical course rather than an academic course designed to develop and expand intellectual capacity. Now that you can get into a 'university' with a couple of E Grades at A level to study some course which doesn't require intellectual capacity, that argument no longer holds true IMHO.
kms
Much depends upon whether we have a flair for a subject, in particular whether we are better at Arts or Science subjects.
I've got a law degree from one of the top universities and, while I wouldn't say it was easy, I wouldn't claim it was difficult. That's partly because the selection process was such that those who would have found it difficult would probably not have got into the university, and certainly not into my college, and partly because I've got a flair for law. However, I think I'd find the ATPL exams difficult. Even at school, my grades in maths & science were consistently lower than in other subjects.
Much also depends upon the university. These days, the fact that someone has a Degree doesn't mean much without knowing where it's from - and in what subject. Football? Hair-dressing? Golf Course Management? Leisure Studies?
FL
Years ago, in the days when having a Degree really meant something, the argument against regarding it as equivalent would have been that it's a practical course rather than an academic course designed to develop and expand intellectual capacity. Now that you can get into a 'university' with a couple of E Grades at A level to study some course which doesn't require intellectual capacity, that argument no longer holds true IMHO.
kms
as easy as passing the atpl exams
I've got a law degree from one of the top universities and, while I wouldn't say it was easy, I wouldn't claim it was difficult. That's partly because the selection process was such that those who would have found it difficult would probably not have got into the university, and certainly not into my college, and partly because I've got a flair for law. However, I think I'd find the ATPL exams difficult. Even at school, my grades in maths & science were consistently lower than in other subjects.
Much also depends upon the university. These days, the fact that someone has a Degree doesn't mean much without knowing where it's from - and in what subject. Football? Hair-dressing? Golf Course Management? Leisure Studies?
FL
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 12th November 2006 at 21:09.
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From: BRISTOL!
I can say for sure its not degree stuff, i have looked over the ATPL's, and they are hard in places, but not really that hard. I would say 14 exams would be about 3 A levels, based on four subjects per A. i would say the depth of the content is under AS Level, its pretty vauge stuff you need to know. ATPL's from what i can see are GCSE level maths and physics at most. Over here, 16 modules would get you a BTEC National Diploma, which is 3 A'Levels, but a fair few of those 16 are junk tutorials, and they are usually open book exams...
I used to think however that the ATPL was like a degree, well i compared it more to a CIMA or Chartered Qualification, but i was wrong again there, or so i was told...
To me the ATPL contains a fair bit of info and brain like a sponge, as there is a load of info to take in and understand... But does it matter what level the ATPL is? Its needed to go commercial, and its got no use in any other industry, just flying... Its like having a CIMA and applying for an Engineering job...
I used to think however that the ATPL was like a degree, well i compared it more to a CIMA or Chartered Qualification, but i was wrong again there, or so i was told...
To me the ATPL contains a fair bit of info and brain like a sponge, as there is a load of info to take in and understand... But does it matter what level the ATPL is? Its needed to go commercial, and its got no use in any other industry, just flying... Its like having a CIMA and applying for an Engineering job...
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i wouldnt say an ATPL is like a Phd at all. A phd typically takes 3-4 years. 1 year studying, 1 year doing practical research, and 1 year writing it up as a book.
unless you go to one of the top unis most BSc/BA courses today are a joke. golf course management, media studies, pop music studies, sports and fitness etc. its all about the unis making money via course fees/international students these days.
the goverments target of most people going to higher education is a crap strategy. it just results in lots of broke people with worthless degrees working in ASDA, while we are all paying through the nose for plumbers/electricians etc, as all the vocational training institutions closed down and there is a shortage. the trouble is, everyone wants to work in tv/music/the meeja, and no-one wants to study the practical stuff.
i worked in the media for years and i never met a single person with a media studies/communication degree.
nowadays a degree is considered "standard" (like O levels were years ago) and to get anywhere with employers you need an Msc or a Phd
apologies for going off-topic, just my 2 pence
unless you go to one of the top unis most BSc/BA courses today are a joke. golf course management, media studies, pop music studies, sports and fitness etc. its all about the unis making money via course fees/international students these days.
the goverments target of most people going to higher education is a crap strategy. it just results in lots of broke people with worthless degrees working in ASDA, while we are all paying through the nose for plumbers/electricians etc, as all the vocational training institutions closed down and there is a shortage. the trouble is, everyone wants to work in tv/music/the meeja, and no-one wants to study the practical stuff.
i worked in the media for years and i never met a single person with a media studies/communication degree.
nowadays a degree is considered "standard" (like O levels were years ago) and to get anywhere with employers you need an Msc or a Phd
apologies for going off-topic, just my 2 pence
)Hovering AND talking
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
That's me out then! 
Havin gone through school, uni, professional qualification and now ATPL ground school; I'd put them, difficulty wise, alongside A-levels. However, there may be a "kudos" level which may be higher than that on the basis that fewer people are in a position to study ATPLs. Someone either has to get accepted on a cadetship or sponsorship, pass interviews and selection criteria or they reach a position in life where they can be self-funded - not something that an A-level student needs to go through.
Of course, I am talking about 1980s A level (proper ones!)
Cheers
Whirls
Havin gone through school, uni, professional qualification and now ATPL ground school; I'd put them, difficulty wise, alongside A-levels. However, there may be a "kudos" level which may be higher than that on the basis that fewer people are in a position to study ATPLs. Someone either has to get accepted on a cadetship or sponsorship, pass interviews and selection criteria or they reach a position in life where they can be self-funded - not something that an A-level student needs to go through.
Of course, I am talking about 1980s A level (proper ones!)
Cheers
Whirls
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From: London
thecontroller
It may be going off-topic (slightly), but I agree with virtually everything you said in your '2 pence' about the current status of degrees. A degree from a top university still carries weight but, as you say, simply having a degree in something from somewhere has now become standard. The desire to call all post school qualifications a 'degree' was silly; it's devalued degrees. I suppose it's all part of the culture in which people who do a few months (or weeks) training now refer to their job as their 'profession'.
Unfortunately, it's not about universities 'making money' as much as struggling to make ends meet. The government's ridiculous policy has meant (amongst many other bad things) that the education budget is spread so thinly that no-one gains - except the government which can boast that x% of school-leavers now go to university. The target is 50%.
Also, conveniently, they aren't then counted in the unemployment figures.
It may be going off-topic (slightly), but I agree with virtually everything you said in your '2 pence' about the current status of degrees. A degree from a top university still carries weight but, as you say, simply having a degree in something from somewhere has now become standard. The desire to call all post school qualifications a 'degree' was silly; it's devalued degrees. I suppose it's all part of the culture in which people who do a few months (or weeks) training now refer to their job as their 'profession'.
Unfortunately, it's not about universities 'making money' as much as struggling to make ends meet. The government's ridiculous policy has meant (amongst many other bad things) that the education budget is spread so thinly that no-one gains - except the government which can boast that x% of school-leavers now go to university. The target is 50%.
Also, conveniently, they aren't then counted in the unemployment figures.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 12th November 2006 at 21:56.
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