MD902 vs EC135
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
From: uk
We now have a bun fight between speculative journo's. Great! Don't believe anything that you read in the press.. that's nothing new so getting back to 135/900.
We bought the 135 on looks, functionality and a reputation that on the whole the EC product was well catered for on the maintenance back-up support. And to date we are happy that we didn't go the 900 route from what we know of the troubles that our close business friends are experiencing. Though we have to agree that when the 900 is not in the hangar it does work well. We have had unserviceabilities and ongoing problems but the maintenance outfit are doing a good job to keep us in the air.
Helinut has made the point very clearly that any purchase has to be out there flying and not languishing in a hangar.
We bought the 135 on looks, functionality and a reputation that on the whole the EC product was well catered for on the maintenance back-up support. And to date we are happy that we didn't go the 900 route from what we know of the troubles that our close business friends are experiencing. Though we have to agree that when the 900 is not in the hangar it does work well. We have had unserviceabilities and ongoing problems but the maintenance outfit are doing a good job to keep us in the air.
Helinut has made the point very clearly that any purchase has to be out there flying and not languishing in a hangar.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 16
From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
You and I know that we are never going to get anywhere with this... sitting on two different hilltops and neither going down into the valley!
I really do not understand where you get the baggage though. There is a whole industry out there and I do try and get a good cross section of it. Although that is often thwarted by some sections not talking ... and its not just the UK MD community. Lack of of contact leads to lack of understanding and that will lead to incorrect perceptions. I was trained to talk [aka interrogate] but the 'Right of Silence' leads to the making of assessments and I guess that is where your gripe lies. Just plain reporting would never lead to this!
Eurocopter, Agusta and Bell have the lions share of the new aircraft market and pump out interesting material in a similar order so I would expect to feature them far more than Enstrom, MD, Brantly etc at any one time. And that is roughly what happens until something else pops up from one of the smaller operations [and I include fixed wing in there - emergency services is largely dominated by rotary] and temporarily steals the limelight. Like the Dutch situation and the groundings.
Sometimes I miss a 'nasty' about Eurocopter, the recent triple grounding of the Met's venerable AS355Ns is a case in point. Having missed it in July it then becomes a balance whether its of interest that the Met had sheer bad luck in making metal in three gearboxes in a month two months ago... probably not but I have it filed. Anyway EC are not the be-all and end all, it would be more important if it was the AS350 because it is a by far more important helicopter type in emergency service.
Overall I might see and interpret the news to the point of EDITING whether I use it but I do not actually create the opportunities. I try to limit myself under 30 pages in a month but I guess that will breach one day.
Bias?
Yes, everyone has bias - and this very thread is probably exhibiting our own personal lines of fire.
None of this explains an inability by some to talk and then for them to complain that the 'Right to silence' has resulted in a misinterpretation.
Funny in the main the complaints come from UK MD operators. An important, silent, but so tiny emergency services group. Perhaps that says something.
I think the typing is a bit more precise this time... maybe not!
Next!
I really do not understand where you get the baggage though. There is a whole industry out there and I do try and get a good cross section of it. Although that is often thwarted by some sections not talking ... and its not just the UK MD community. Lack of of contact leads to lack of understanding and that will lead to incorrect perceptions. I was trained to talk [aka interrogate] but the 'Right of Silence' leads to the making of assessments and I guess that is where your gripe lies. Just plain reporting would never lead to this!
Eurocopter, Agusta and Bell have the lions share of the new aircraft market and pump out interesting material in a similar order so I would expect to feature them far more than Enstrom, MD, Brantly etc at any one time. And that is roughly what happens until something else pops up from one of the smaller operations [and I include fixed wing in there - emergency services is largely dominated by rotary] and temporarily steals the limelight. Like the Dutch situation and the groundings.
Sometimes I miss a 'nasty' about Eurocopter, the recent triple grounding of the Met's venerable AS355Ns is a case in point. Having missed it in July it then becomes a balance whether its of interest that the Met had sheer bad luck in making metal in three gearboxes in a month two months ago... probably not but I have it filed. Anyway EC are not the be-all and end all, it would be more important if it was the AS350 because it is a by far more important helicopter type in emergency service.
Overall I might see and interpret the news to the point of EDITING whether I use it but I do not actually create the opportunities. I try to limit myself under 30 pages in a month but I guess that will breach one day.
Bias?
Yes, everyone has bias - and this very thread is probably exhibiting our own personal lines of fire.
None of this explains an inability by some to talk and then for them to complain that the 'Right to silence' has resulted in a misinterpretation.
Funny in the main the complaints come from UK MD operators. An important, silent, but so tiny emergency services group. Perhaps that says something.
I think the typing is a bit more precise this time... maybe not!
Next!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 370
Likes: 18
From: Oman
PANews
I would like to "shake hands" across the internet and agree that we won't get anywhere with this.
Sorry about the gripe about spelling/grammar, it's a pet hate. (Now those interested can go back over my old posts to nit-pick!)
You do pull together a lot of interesting stuff from around the globe and I (and colleagues) enjoy the read.
More power to your elbow.
I would like to "shake hands" across the internet and agree that we won't get anywhere with this.
Sorry about the gripe about spelling/grammar, it's a pet hate. (Now those interested can go back over my old posts to nit-pick!)
You do pull together a lot of interesting stuff from around the globe and I (and colleagues) enjoy the read.
More power to your elbow.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: UK
PAN has been at it again I see -
Latest edition of PA News quotes a UK MD902 operator ordering a new 135 P2 ( Pratt & Whitney engines ), being the first in the UK not to select the Turbo Mecca engines...
I wonder what Pratt & Whitney make of the above statement 
Latest edition of PA News quotes a UK MD902 operator ordering a new 135 P2 ( Pratt & Whitney engines ), being the first in the UK not to select the Turbo Mecca engines...
West Midlands were already operating a particularly
unreliable PWC powered MD900 Explorer and so
had a very good appreciation of PWC’s customer service
and reliability within that negative reliability scenario.
unreliable PWC powered MD900 Explorer and so
had a very good appreciation of PWC’s customer service
and reliability within that negative reliability scenario.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: N/A
We were talking about performance (at the beginning of the thread) and with the long range configuration on the EC135 T2 (730 kg of fuel) the range is 456nm at economical speed (128kt)... if you don't believe me, you just have to check your technical data !
at cruise speed (140kt) and with standard fuel configuration (560kg) we have 330nm...
bye
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 16
From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
Perhaps PWC would be pleased that the engines 'shone through' as being particularly reliable in spite of everything?
Clearly West Midlands were well pleased with the PWC engines and support.
Pleased enough to take the plunge and bring the P2 into the UK market. Not that difficult of course this time around of course as EASA certification means it just reads across to the UK. In the past the first one to have broken the Turbomeca mould would have faced some heavy financial burdens.
I assume you are not saying that West Midlands should have selected something different?
Clearly West Midlands were well pleased with the PWC engines and support.
Pleased enough to take the plunge and bring the P2 into the UK market. Not that difficult of course this time around of course as EASA certification means it just reads across to the UK. In the past the first one to have broken the Turbomeca mould would have faced some heavy financial burdens.
I assume you are not saying that West Midlands should have selected something different?
Last edited by PANews; 2nd October 2006 at 20:34. Reason: addition
