Advice on buying a B206 and leaseback schemes
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Advice on buying a B206 and leaseback schemes
After recently completing my ATPL(H) exams and taking into account the difficulty faced with finding employment, I am looking at buying a Jetranger for around the £200k mark. I would be very grateful to anyone who could offer any help or guidance on where to purchase, what type to go for, or avoid and things to look out for? (For example, I'm told that parts for the older Augusta Bells can be harder to find)!
Obviously, I would have a full inspection carried out beforehand showing time remaining on all components (and this is probably a requirement to get true valuation and secure any finance)!
Once I've secured the purchase I'm told that I can register the a/c on somebodys AOC under a leaseback scheme getting around £220-£260 per hour that it is used. I'm also hoping to finish my hr building (approx 40hrs) until I do my CPL(H) course and then hopefully do some paid work as the owner, under the AOC of a Company/School, if this is realistic?
Summary Plan
Buy own a/c to do hr building upto CPL
Register on AOC under leaseback & hopefullly cover costs
Gain employment after CPL on own a/c
Hopefully get 300 to 500 hrs annual usage on leaseback
All help and advice appreciated, including recommendations for websites, contacts, books or software etc.
Many thanks in advance,
Kopterman
Obviously, I would have a full inspection carried out beforehand showing time remaining on all components (and this is probably a requirement to get true valuation and secure any finance)!
Once I've secured the purchase I'm told that I can register the a/c on somebodys AOC under a leaseback scheme getting around £220-£260 per hour that it is used. I'm also hoping to finish my hr building (approx 40hrs) until I do my CPL(H) course and then hopefully do some paid work as the owner, under the AOC of a Company/School, if this is realistic?
Summary Plan
Buy own a/c to do hr building upto CPL
Register on AOC under leaseback & hopefullly cover costs
Gain employment after CPL on own a/c
Hopefully get 300 to 500 hrs annual usage on leaseback
All help and advice appreciated, including recommendations for websites, contacts, books or software etc.
Many thanks in advance,
Kopterman
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Hi there Kopterman...
You on the right track, I've done EXACTLY that, but in South Africa. Instead of hiring someone elses helicopter, and paying their helicopter off by the bank, I bought myself a Jetranger for hour building towards my CPL. I have it on a lease to a charter co. and I fly when its on the ground...
Must admit that you must look for GOOD component times especially turbine and blades. Other than that I hope you have spare cash for the rainy days THAT can be expensive!
Find yourself a good AMO one you can trust since some of these guys can be sharks, I must admit I have a great AMO that I can REALY trust, after all it's your life they playing with!!!
Should you have any further questions private message or email me...
GOOD LUCK
You on the right track, I've done EXACTLY that, but in South Africa. Instead of hiring someone elses helicopter, and paying their helicopter off by the bank, I bought myself a Jetranger for hour building towards my CPL. I have it on a lease to a charter co. and I fly when its on the ground...
Must admit that you must look for GOOD component times especially turbine and blades. Other than that I hope you have spare cash for the rainy days THAT can be expensive!
Find yourself a good AMO one you can trust since some of these guys can be sharks, I must admit I have a great AMO that I can REALY trust, after all it's your life they playing with!!!
Should you have any further questions private message or email me...
GOOD LUCK
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Usually a few 206's in the price range you are looking at in: http://helidata.rotor.com Follow the links to the online sales page.
And no, I am not connnected with nor paid by that publication.
And no, I am not connnected with nor paid by that publication.
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If you recall, I did in fact make reference to organizing 'finance'! I have around £40k to put down as a deposit.
For me, there's no correlation between money & happiness, particularly where flying is concerned...I've yet to meet anyone who became a Helicopter pilot, simply for the money?
Kind Regards,
Kopterman
You make some incorrect assumptions
1) No AOC is going to allow you as a low time pilot to stooge around in your machine on their ticket.
2) No AOC is going to deliver that no of hrs flying...they may promise but they will not deliver...period. The only way to get that no of hrs is a pipe or power line contract and the rate is very low and the a/c will not be available to you.
3) Can you pay the bill when after 50 hrs the engineers tell you you need a thingy which is £35,000 ? If not you will be selling your £200,000 machine for £120,000. Dont forget that insurance and basic maintenance will cost you circa £20,000 p.a and there will probably be costs going onto their AOC and you may have to let them flt X hrs to keep their pilots checked and up to date.
4) The Agusta Bell is generally a lot cheaper to run due to there being spare parts available at 50% or more discount to Bell prices. ( Airandground being just one company that have loads of cheap parts ) Also you can fit Bell to Agusta and Agusta to Bell , it is only forbidden in the USA and Canada. Most old Bells will have various Agusta parts on them .
Sorry to be a killjoy but if it were that simple everybody with 40k would be doing it . IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT DONT BUY IT !!!!! If i were you i would lease a 300 and get an instructor to do some training on it...MUCH better than an R22 or go to the states and hour build maybe as an instructor.
anyway good luck !!!!!
1) No AOC is going to allow you as a low time pilot to stooge around in your machine on their ticket.
2) No AOC is going to deliver that no of hrs flying...they may promise but they will not deliver...period. The only way to get that no of hrs is a pipe or power line contract and the rate is very low and the a/c will not be available to you.
3) Can you pay the bill when after 50 hrs the engineers tell you you need a thingy which is £35,000 ? If not you will be selling your £200,000 machine for £120,000. Dont forget that insurance and basic maintenance will cost you circa £20,000 p.a and there will probably be costs going onto their AOC and you may have to let them flt X hrs to keep their pilots checked and up to date.
4) The Agusta Bell is generally a lot cheaper to run due to there being spare parts available at 50% or more discount to Bell prices. ( Airandground being just one company that have loads of cheap parts ) Also you can fit Bell to Agusta and Agusta to Bell , it is only forbidden in the USA and Canada. Most old Bells will have various Agusta parts on them .
Sorry to be a killjoy but if it were that simple everybody with 40k would be doing it . IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT DONT BUY IT !!!!! If i were you i would lease a 300 and get an instructor to do some training on it...MUCH better than an R22 or go to the states and hour build maybe as an instructor.
anyway good luck !!!!!
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PPL(H) + ATPL(H) Theory + CPL(H) course = CPL(H) + Frozen ATPL(H)
CPL(H) course requires min 155hrs plus course of 30hrs = 185hrs
Regards,
Kopterman
Kopter
Nigelh has a pretty good handle on it, however exercise caution when assuming that
He is quite right that most old Bells have some Agusta parts on them, but as these two links imply its not quite a simple as if fits it'll do.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/536/LTO253...usta%20bell%22
http://www.bellcustomer.com/files/St...9-65_Rev_A.pdf
I am not an engineer, but I know of at least one maintenance company who are taking Agusta bits off Bells in their care. And a number of others who are exercising extreme caution near Bells with Agusta parts on.
Also don't just assume that non profit flights need to be given away to the operator, its your machine at the end of the day if someone needs it then they should pay for it, maybe a reduced rate but why for free. If they don't need it and are doing you a favour operating it and recouping some cash for you then perhaps line checks etc get done for free, but that's a personal choice, not the norm.
Paco raises a valid question, why do you want to do this ? I did what you are suggesting on a smaller scale with an R22, it did work, but you will probably end up getting paid less and having a lot more fun at work (unless you're a pornstar)
V.
Nigelh has a pretty good handle on it, however exercise caution when assuming that
Also you can fit Bell to Agusta and Agusta to Bell , it is only forbidden in the USA and Canada
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/536/LTO253...usta%20bell%22
http://www.bellcustomer.com/files/St...9-65_Rev_A.pdf
I am not an engineer, but I know of at least one maintenance company who are taking Agusta bits off Bells in their care. And a number of others who are exercising extreme caution near Bells with Agusta parts on.
Also don't just assume that non profit flights need to be given away to the operator, its your machine at the end of the day if someone needs it then they should pay for it, maybe a reduced rate but why for free. If they don't need it and are doing you a favour operating it and recouping some cash for you then perhaps line checks etc get done for free, but that's a personal choice, not the norm.
Paco raises a valid question, why do you want to do this ? I did what you are suggesting on a smaller scale with an R22, it did work, but you will probably end up getting paid less and having a lot more fun at work (unless you're a pornstar)
V.
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You make some incorrect assumptions
1) No AOC is going to allow you as a low time pilot to stooge around in your machine on their ticket.
2) No AOC is going to deliver that no of hrs flying...they may promise but they will not deliver...period. The only way to get that no of hrs is a pipe or power line contract and the rate is very low and the a/c will not be available to you.
3) Can you pay the bill when after 50 hrs the engineers tell you you need a thingy which is £35,000 ? If not you will be selling your £200,000 machine for £120,000. Dont forget that insurance and basic maintenance will cost you circa £20,000 p.a and there will probably be costs going onto their AOC and you may have to let them flt X hrs to keep their pilots checked and up to date.
4) The Agusta Bell is generally a lot cheaper to run due to there being spare parts available at 50% or more discount to Bell prices. ( Airandground being just one company that have loads of cheap parts ) Also you can fit Bell to Agusta and Agusta to Bell , it is only forbidden in the USA and Canada. Most old Bells will have various Agusta parts on them .
Sorry to be a killjoy but if it were that simple everybody with 40k would be doing it . IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT DONT BUY IT !!!!! If i were you i would lease a 300 and get an instructor to do some training on it...MUCH better than an R22 or go to the states and hour build maybe as an instructor.
anyway good luck !!!!!
1) No AOC is going to allow you as a low time pilot to stooge around in your machine on their ticket.
2) No AOC is going to deliver that no of hrs flying...they may promise but they will not deliver...period. The only way to get that no of hrs is a pipe or power line contract and the rate is very low and the a/c will not be available to you.
3) Can you pay the bill when after 50 hrs the engineers tell you you need a thingy which is £35,000 ? If not you will be selling your £200,000 machine for £120,000. Dont forget that insurance and basic maintenance will cost you circa £20,000 p.a and there will probably be costs going onto their AOC and you may have to let them flt X hrs to keep their pilots checked and up to date.
4) The Agusta Bell is generally a lot cheaper to run due to there being spare parts available at 50% or more discount to Bell prices. ( Airandground being just one company that have loads of cheap parts ) Also you can fit Bell to Agusta and Agusta to Bell , it is only forbidden in the USA and Canada. Most old Bells will have various Agusta parts on them .
Sorry to be a killjoy but if it were that simple everybody with 40k would be doing it . IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT DONT BUY IT !!!!! If i were you i would lease a 300 and get an instructor to do some training on it...MUCH better than an R22 or go to the states and hour build maybe as an instructor.
anyway good luck !!!!!
If I had to pay the going rate to do my hr building, I wouldn't have much change from the £40k and little chance of findong a job. At least if I buy a machine it will hopefully reduce the cost of my flying. I'm sure that if I got around 200hrs paid commercial work within a 12month period it would more than cover itself & allow me to hr build at a minimal cost. (Is £260/hr leaseback a realistic sum)? If so, that's £52k income minus hangarage, insurance, maintenance, finance etc I'd estimate that to be around a break-even mark and with some luck, enough for a contingency pot.
In response to your comments:-
1/ Are you saying that I would not be allowed under any circumstance to work as a fully qualified (albeit low time) pilot? Is this due to the restrictions on the insurance or because of the potential 'risk factor'?
I have been told by a Company that I would be able to get some paid work on my own machine, on their AOC?
2/ I'm trying to negotiate a guarenteed number of hrs & I know that they have a desperate shortage of A/c & are continually turning down work! (They have done approx. 250hrs in the past 7 months in a friends 206).
3/ I'm told that when you buy an A/c you can quite accurately forecast component times/costs. As long as you build up a large contingency fund I'm told it's quite a safe bet! Would your insurance or maintenance contract not cover any large unexpected components?
4/ It's easy to say 'if you can't afford it, don't buy it' the trouble is etsablishing if I can afford it or not? What are the likely returns on a 300/hr?
Many thanks in advance,
Kopterman
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Kopter
Nigelh has a pretty good handle on it, however exercise caution when assuming that
He is quite right that most old Bells have some Agusta parts on them, but as these two links imply its not quite a simple as if fits it'll do.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/536/LTO253...usta%20bell%22
http://www.bellcustomer.com/files/St...9-65_Rev_A.pdf
I am not an engineer, but I know of at least one maintenance company who are taking Agusta bits off Bells in their care. And a number of others who are exercising extreme caution near Bells with Agusta parts on.
Also don't just assume that non profit flights need to be given away to the operator, its your machine at the end of the day if someone needs it then they should pay for it, maybe a reduced rate but why for free. If they don't need it and are doing you a favour operating it and recouping some cash for you then perhaps line checks etc get done for free, but that's a personal choice, not the norm.
Paco raises a valid question, why do you want to do this ? I did what you are suggesting on a smaller scale with an R22, it did work, but you will probably end up getting paid less and having a lot more fun at work (unless you're a pornstar)
V.
Nigelh has a pretty good handle on it, however exercise caution when assuming that
He is quite right that most old Bells have some Agusta parts on them, but as these two links imply its not quite a simple as if fits it'll do.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/536/LTO253...usta%20bell%22
http://www.bellcustomer.com/files/St...9-65_Rev_A.pdf
I am not an engineer, but I know of at least one maintenance company who are taking Agusta bits off Bells in their care. And a number of others who are exercising extreme caution near Bells with Agusta parts on.
Also don't just assume that non profit flights need to be given away to the operator, its your machine at the end of the day if someone needs it then they should pay for it, maybe a reduced rate but why for free. If they don't need it and are doing you a favour operating it and recouping some cash for you then perhaps line checks etc get done for free, but that's a personal choice, not the norm.
Paco raises a valid question, why do you want to do this ? I did what you are suggesting on a smaller scale with an R22, it did work, but you will probably end up getting paid less and having a lot more fun at work (unless you're a pornstar)
V.
I certainly wouldn't allow any flying to be done for free and a contract would include all the associated costs/fees. Why would a private owner pay towards a Companies overheads in keeping their pilots current anyway!! (It would be like renting out a property & allowing the management agent to stay there the odd weekend for free).
My whole reasoning behind this, is that I have a ppl & atpl theory with about 110hrs tt and would eventually like to get into paid commercial work. (I'm still not convinced about being an Instructor though)?
There are several ways in which I could achieve this and each way will have it's own pros & cons. However, I feel that buying a helicopter on leaseback seems to be the the most efficient and exciting way so far!
As long as I source the right helicopter and find a good AOC, it should hopefully pay for itself and allow me to build up a lot more hrs then I would normally be able to afford or want to pay for. I'm also hoping that because of my limited hours it might allow me a better chance to do some paid work when I've completed the Cpl(H). Please tell me if I'm missing anything here?
Thanks in advance,
KM
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There seems to be no reference to 'organising finance' - your original post implied that you had 200K to play with, but never mind!
There may be other ways you can do this without actually buying a machine. A friend of mine in Canada started his own pleasure flying business which, after 1 year, was regularly asked back to every major city and loads of smaller ones - in the end he had two other low-timers working with him and he ended up with 1000 hours after two years, plus a pile of cash in his pocket. He didn't buy a machine, but borrowed one and had an arrangement with one or two companies to work under their AOCs - I was the Chief Pilot of one of them, and it worked very well. In the UK, we used to follow the steam rallies.
Maybe you could be as creative, but a word of warning if you lend your machine to a company - make sure you get the same bits on it when you get it back! Many pilots who worked for Northern Mountain in Canada had their own machines and when the company was in financial difficulties and they needed spares, their machines got robbed and they were returned minus tail rotors, etc. It is all too easy to change serial numbers on many aircraft parts.
Good Luck.
Phil
There may be other ways you can do this without actually buying a machine. A friend of mine in Canada started his own pleasure flying business which, after 1 year, was regularly asked back to every major city and loads of smaller ones - in the end he had two other low-timers working with him and he ended up with 1000 hours after two years, plus a pile of cash in his pocket. He didn't buy a machine, but borrowed one and had an arrangement with one or two companies to work under their AOCs - I was the Chief Pilot of one of them, and it worked very well. In the UK, we used to follow the steam rallies.
Maybe you could be as creative, but a word of warning if you lend your machine to a company - make sure you get the same bits on it when you get it back! Many pilots who worked for Northern Mountain in Canada had their own machines and when the company was in financial difficulties and they needed spares, their machines got robbed and they were returned minus tail rotors, etc. It is all too easy to change serial numbers on many aircraft parts.
Good Luck.
Phil
If you have to go AB and at least have half price parts. Oh, and when you go to start in the morning just pray you dont get a crunching noise and lots of smoke as it could be the sound of $100,000 dribbling away !!!! ( but if it does happen give me a call as i am looking for a cheap AB 206 without an engine !!!)
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hey kopterman,
if you have a CPL and your low time, as soon as you have 250 hours get yourself an instructor rating.
1) you will find work when you have passed it
2) it is good experience
3) you will get paid £40 p.h approx
4)it is a low risk strategy
5)when you have 1000 hours or so people will take you seriously to do some VFR charter.
your plan with the 206 sounds like a cracking way to go broke fast to me.
if I were an AOC holder, there is no way I would let a 200 hour novice fly my passengers around (even if it was his aircraft, they are my passengers). I dont think you realise what a huge difference experience makes.
regards
CF
if you have a CPL and your low time, as soon as you have 250 hours get yourself an instructor rating.
1) you will find work when you have passed it
2) it is good experience
3) you will get paid £40 p.h approx
4)it is a low risk strategy
5)when you have 1000 hours or so people will take you seriously to do some VFR charter.
your plan with the 206 sounds like a cracking way to go broke fast to me.
if I were an AOC holder, there is no way I would let a 200 hour novice fly my passengers around (even if it was his aircraft, they are my passengers). I dont think you realise what a huge difference experience makes.
regards
CF
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hey kopterman,
if you have a CPL and your low time, as soon as you have 250 hours get yourself an instructor rating.
1) you will find work when you have passed it
2) it is good experience
3) you will get paid £40 p.h approx
4)it is a low risk strategy
5)when you have 1000 hours or so people will take you seriously to do some VFR charter.
your plan with the 206 sounds like a cracking way to go broke fast to me.
if I were an AOC holder, there is no way I would let a 200 hour novice fly my passengers around (even if it was his aircraft, they are my passengers). I dont think you realise what a huge difference experience makes.
regards
CF
if you have a CPL and your low time, as soon as you have 250 hours get yourself an instructor rating.
1) you will find work when you have passed it
2) it is good experience
3) you will get paid £40 p.h approx
4)it is a low risk strategy
5)when you have 1000 hours or so people will take you seriously to do some VFR charter.
your plan with the 206 sounds like a cracking way to go broke fast to me.
if I were an AOC holder, there is no way I would let a 200 hour novice fly my passengers around (even if it was his aircraft, they are my passengers). I dont think you realise what a huge difference experience makes.
regards
CF
Thanks for your comments...Why does helicopter ownership/leaseback mean that I would neccessarily go broke? It must work for some people otherwise nobody would do it. In my very limited experience, it seems that lots of Companies/Schools operate through leaseback schemes rather than owning their own aircraft!
Why is it that after 250hrs (plus QFI) you are deemed experienced enough to take paying passengers and teach them how to fly but anything less than 1000hrs you are not experienced to take them from A to B? Surely teaching a student how to fly carries far more risk? A little inconsistant me thinks!!
KM
KM
Buying and leasing back doesn't mean you'll go broke, but if it ends up being your sole source of income then the odds are not stacked in your favour.
You are quite correct that there is an inconsistency in that inexperienced pilots teach even more inexperienced students, it is almost farcical. That is however what happens at the bottom of the food chain and we all have to start somewhere. Many pilots (myself included) would not have got a break if it were not for instructing first.
As far as experience goes consider this , as an inexperienced pilot if the weather is a little iffy students won't necessarily learn a great deal from going flying so cancellation is the right thing to do. Now look at a commercial job with 5hrs revenue in one days flying, cloudbase is 900ft vis is 4km , would you want a 250hr CPL either cancelling the job which a more exeriencd pilot might do quite safely or worse taking the job on and having an accident.
And before anyone gets the hump I DO NOT mean that 250hr CPLs can't do anything I am merely illustrating a point.
Very off thread but attempting to answer your questions.
V.
Buying and leasing back doesn't mean you'll go broke, but if it ends up being your sole source of income then the odds are not stacked in your favour.
You are quite correct that there is an inconsistency in that inexperienced pilots teach even more inexperienced students, it is almost farcical. That is however what happens at the bottom of the food chain and we all have to start somewhere. Many pilots (myself included) would not have got a break if it were not for instructing first.
As far as experience goes consider this , as an inexperienced pilot if the weather is a little iffy students won't necessarily learn a great deal from going flying so cancellation is the right thing to do. Now look at a commercial job with 5hrs revenue in one days flying, cloudbase is 900ft vis is 4km , would you want a 250hr CPL either cancelling the job which a more exeriencd pilot might do quite safely or worse taking the job on and having an accident.
And before anyone gets the hump I DO NOT mean that 250hr CPLs can't do anything I am merely illustrating a point.
Very off thread but attempting to answer your questions.
V.
Last edited by VeeAny; 1st Oct 2006 at 20:17.
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hey Kopterman,
I concur with VeeAny, when the weather starts to crap out on your cross country charter which was fine in the morning, but now your on your way back and its not long till it gets dark and the cloud is coming down and the ground is going up and the vis is dropping and you got a family in the back who have no intention of spending the night in wales or wherever the hell you are, you become with 200 hours and commercial pressure an accident waiting to happen.
Instructing is different, sure you have the problem that the student might kill you by yanking the lever up when he should be lowering it, but you dont have the problem of trying to cover long distances cross country in crap weather. you have the luxury of telling the student that its not suitable when you dont fancy it and it doesnt cause a problem. in my opinion VFR charter can be very hard, because when it gets tough you run out of options.
re the reference to going broke, to clarify I think you are far too optimistic about the hours you will do and the amount of income. If you could make money so easily by buying an aircraft and leasing it back everybody would be doing it. most of the people who own helicopters can afford to do so and do not need to make money. if you cant afford to run it without leasing back I think you are ill advised to buy it in the first place.
anyhow if you buy it, good luck with your purchase
regards
CF
I concur with VeeAny, when the weather starts to crap out on your cross country charter which was fine in the morning, but now your on your way back and its not long till it gets dark and the cloud is coming down and the ground is going up and the vis is dropping and you got a family in the back who have no intention of spending the night in wales or wherever the hell you are, you become with 200 hours and commercial pressure an accident waiting to happen.
Instructing is different, sure you have the problem that the student might kill you by yanking the lever up when he should be lowering it, but you dont have the problem of trying to cover long distances cross country in crap weather. you have the luxury of telling the student that its not suitable when you dont fancy it and it doesnt cause a problem. in my opinion VFR charter can be very hard, because when it gets tough you run out of options.
re the reference to going broke, to clarify I think you are far too optimistic about the hours you will do and the amount of income. If you could make money so easily by buying an aircraft and leasing it back everybody would be doing it. most of the people who own helicopters can afford to do so and do not need to make money. if you cant afford to run it without leasing back I think you are ill advised to buy it in the first place.
anyhow if you buy it, good luck with your purchase
regards
CF
Camp Freddie - I haven't owned a helicopter, so can't speak with authority, but saying that most people who own helicopters don't need to make money isn't right - a working helicopter can and should make money, as many do.
I guess you're referring to private owners.
Like any business proposition, if Kopterman can buy a machine, get it on line working and make more than it costs him to own and operate, well and good, as long as his cash flow and reserves are sufficient to cope with the big expenses like major component overhauls, insurance, coping with an accident, say, where it's on the ground for a long time being fixed and generating no income - obviously not for the faint hearted, or the shoestring budget.
I guess you're referring to private owners.
Like any business proposition, if Kopterman can buy a machine, get it on line working and make more than it costs him to own and operate, well and good, as long as his cash flow and reserves are sufficient to cope with the big expenses like major component overhauls, insurance, coping with an accident, say, where it's on the ground for a long time being fixed and generating no income - obviously not for the faint hearted, or the shoestring budget.
Instructors have always been at the bottom of the food chain, especially in the states. I think a family going from a to b will be expecting a high level of experience whereas the student will know very well the experience of his instructor and can , if he wishes, change to a more experienced one or just a different school. There is no way with 250 hrs you have the experience ,when faced with bad weather, to crawl under at 300ft ( yes it is legal over hills etc) or even go on top or maybe turn back.
As for making money , i do not know of one owner who makes money from an AOC , he may reduce his costs but will not make a profit in the long term. The reason AOC,s use these helicopters is because it is CHEAPER than owning their own and there is always some rich twit who thinks he can fly for nothing !!! The old adage if it flies, floats or f***s rent it is so true !!!!!!!!!!
As for making money , i do not know of one owner who makes money from an AOC , he may reduce his costs but will not make a profit in the long term. The reason AOC,s use these helicopters is because it is CHEAPER than owning their own and there is always some rich twit who thinks he can fly for nothing !!! The old adage if it flies, floats or f***s rent it is so true !!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
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"There is no way with 250 hrs you have the experience ,when faced with bad weather, to crawl under at 300ft ..."
I was doing just that, with missiles on the side in Western Germany, with 200 hours! However, I do take your point - at least we had no commercial pressure.
Having been involved with at least 15 helicopter startups, I have always advised my clients that, if they cannot afford to pay for anything to do with helicoptering up front, don't do it. If you have to pay as you go along, you will always lose money. Part of the reason for being successful on a shoestring is timing, which you can never guarantee.
Phil
I was doing just that, with missiles on the side in Western Germany, with 200 hours! However, I do take your point - at least we had no commercial pressure.
Having been involved with at least 15 helicopter startups, I have always advised my clients that, if they cannot afford to pay for anything to do with helicoptering up front, don't do it. If you have to pay as you go along, you will always lose money. Part of the reason for being successful on a shoestring is timing, which you can never guarantee.
Phil