Whats Happening in the Torres Straits

[movin' on]

Selfish,
I hear the claim was for 30% across the board....met with an offer of 3%.

Time for an afternoon off for all the boys to discuss what action may be an appropriate response

MO

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by Mr Selfish

Oh Dear
Unless they are living in paradise, on the world’s best roster and flying fantastic equipment, any ME IFR Captains starting on less than $90K in OZ should move on.

Is that all? I thought we established elsewhere that B206 maintenance and instructor pilots are starting on more than that, with not a mention of ME or IFR anywhere!

[jinglejim]

moving on

I wish it was that easy "just move on".....
Unfortunately when family is involved sometimes the family just don't want to move on... which may explain why there's so many divorced helo pilots out there... cos that just kept moooovvvving on.
Of course management play on this and will continue to screw guys over for the extra buck...

[RWJackOfAllTrades]

Its a sad, sad state of affairs when we have supposed large Australian companies pretending to be running with the likes of CHC and Bristows, yet they still cannot do the basics such as tendering correctly for a contract that remunerates all concerned adequately.

Further, in the Australian industry, where there is talk and hype of a growth spurt with a substantial opportunity base opening up for guys, what the hell is going on when we still can't get crews remunerated adequately? Seriously!

I am just glad to be working overseas myself on contract where the machinery is nicer, the management appreciate good staff and are prepared to pay them appropriately for their effort, skill and loyalty. It would appear that there is a lot to be learned by this particular company. The whole issue of underpaying people is getting very tiresome with pilots and associated crews and it is only a matter of time before such companies pay for this with a heavy price.

Again, good luck guys...3% is a slap in the face...its a paltry amount to offer up and any decent man could not seriously look another in the face and offer such a disgracefully low amount, given inflationary pressures and the fact these guys are worth far more then what they are getting.

[talklimited]

HR Tatics

Whilst I do not say that the company being grilled here is a participant, (and I have no knowledge of how they operate) it is a very common HR practise to know the personal commitment of each staff member with respect to how much they might need the job.
For example, do they have a mortgage? Do they have a family with kids in school, wife working? In other words management find out how much you are committed to the place you live. Believe me this is a common strategy that management uses to know who can be screwed and who might not take the same amount of screwing. The issuing of assignments, extending tours with little notice, is often dealt to specific individuals that will have a reason not to cause too much trouble.
Advice, tell your employer as little as possible about your personal and financial matters. Present a personally secure image and you may just get treated better if you’re a good pilot and not too much of a bother to them.
This is particularly true in companies that do special deals with individuals.

[Gerbil Racer]

Bloody Pilots

To all that think that there is room for movement now that the roster stoppers have gone, go ahead.
Slut yourselves out.
Do 'all that it takes' to get ahead.
Or.....you could scare yourselves a little and perhaps think that the fiscal policies adopted might be carried through to ....... no. Let's just pretend that those that have left have only done so for the pocket lining getting thin.
Of course that's the only reason they left.
Now where did the Sarcasm Lock button go?

[itoldyouso]

Mr $pendthrift

Originally Posted by Mr Selfish

Come on guys

All you insiders must know – “How much do they pay ME IFR Captains”?

All this “secrecy” and reluctance to disclose figures is one of the things slowing the wage increase (which we all know is gaining momentum, despite traditional impediments)

Mr $pendthrift

Try this link; http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...w=Y&page=whole

Please note that this Certified Agreement was signed on the 14th November 2002, so you would have to apply appropriate CPI increases since then.

You may also note that the Agreement thus expired on the 14th November 2005 (ie 3 years).

The "Company" took 6 months, after the expiry date, to start negotiations for the new EBA, which is on going.

Happy reading.

[benq]

talklimited
you have hit the nail on the head, its called
Dangling the CARROT.
If you are a good boy and dont make waves you will and/or stay as a coee/captain on the 412
Make waves and your ass is grass.... back to jetranger.

and has you stated talklimited...if management know your situation to well they know they have you trapped,this is Company Bullying at its best(WORST).
A/H i have heard were very very good at this tactic, But they are not the only ones doing it, and of course it doesnt get reported, because every body needs to support their families and/or pay their child support...So they have us over a barrell so to speak...

It has been said in this post that the departure of pilots from one sector leaving to go to another, opens the way for others to come through,,Well yes it does BUT don't forget WHY those leaving have left and WHY are they leaving in the numbers they are...
BE CAUTIOUS
BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID

When you hear 4 out of 7 highly experienced ATPL Command Instument Rated Pilots leaving a company, something is not right
And not only that
BUT
a number of the crewies for that company are leaving as well,something is definitly wrong..

Glad i do my own thing now,

my 2 bobs worth

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by benq

When you hear 4 out of 7 highly experienced ATPL Command Instument Rated Pilots leaving a company, something is not right

Something may not be right, but it has to be understood here that it's their train set and ultimately they can do with it what they want. There's no point saying that the management is this or that, or to bluntly point out the error of their policies, or to say the tender rates are too low, or whatever; the beancounters (as always) are those who are listened to, and the beancounters have shown it is cheaper for the company to keep salaries down and accept a high staff turnover.

The proposal that the boys sit down for half a day to discuss options is interesting, I gotta tell you that when you shoot yourself in the foot chances are you'll go lame, or walk around in circles. Also pointless getting AFAP to take them on (not that I have heard that suggested yet), because I figure AH are probably paying the minimum Award rates in which case there is no case. But if they are paying less than Award or EBA rates then take them to the cleaners. But be warned, anyone contemplating taking their employer through this process will end up with their name in the little black book, and many other doors elsewhere will be closed.

So to disgruntled staff anywhere (speaking generally) might better look at it this way: get out of it what you can, take pride in the fact that you're doing your best, and then move on when a better opportunity presents itself. Get the extra rating or endorsement, or get those extra hours that you need, or get the time in to demonstate a stable employment history, and bank the pittance that they pay you until you find the better alternative.

So hang in there guys, more and more vets are retiring every week so opportunities for progression are becoming more plentiful.

[B.A.N.D]

Middle of the range truth.

I get the feeling that the employees expected and hoped for more from this company.

The reality is, it’s a middle of the range company with middle of the range wages and a middle of the range attitude toward the biggest asset they have – their staff.

Accept it for what it is. It probably wont improve.

[helopat]

Notice the advert for pilots up north in todays rag by these good people? Still insist on the ATPL(H). But hey, what do I know...except I'm steering clear and see what happens in the longer term.

[Chuck76]

Good decision; why would you even look at AH?

They are winning contracts by undercutting on the one cost they have some room to maneuver Labour. Given the current market guys will vote with there feet and good on them.

I can only comment on renumeration and conditions for Australian Offshore namely Bristow:

Copilot: base Salary 55k plus 16k tax free for Daily Travel Allowance (DTA)
Senior First Officer: 75k plus 16k tax free DTA
Captain:95k plus 16k tax free DTA

All you have to do with your DTA is feed yourself so you can easily save a large chunk of the $95 a day.

$2200 per year for AFAP membership/Loss of Licence
Salary continuance @ 75% of salary plus allowances for 5 years should you get crook

Two weeks on two weeks off plus four weeks annual rec leave, so you can make a decent living working 22 weeks of the year and 30 weeks off

If AH are really only paying 65k for Multi CIR 412 driver they are taking the piss! Respond to the Bristow add instead, the offshore upswing is just getting going the Pay and conditions will only be on the improve.

[Chairmanofthebored]

Bristows have to pay that to compensate the 'boredom factor'.

[SMOUFW]

What a Hard Decision???

Boredom factor for $130k or holding your ankles for 60K.

SMO

[bellfest]

Bristows have to pay that to compensate the 'boredom factor'.

That's an interesting comment. Would you care to tell us all what is that exciting about updating ships, prying the sleep out of your eyes at 2 am, babysitting marine pilots, flying over water for 2 hours or the pitch black or in the **** with your pupils rapidly cycling attempting to adjust to the lightning, trying to speak pidgeon english and completely disregarding what is left of your body clock at times that warrants such a pathetic salary. One might suggest ( if one is not a greedy bean counting parasite) that the salary should be the contrary. If memory serves me correctly, it was at times tedious, frustrating, challenging, enlightening, satisfying, scary, gratifying and mundane but the one thing that I never personally felt was that I was being rewarded what I was worth. Let alone some of the more qualified and professional lads I had the pleasure of working with.

[Nigel Osborn]

Gee, Bellfest that sounds exciting! And you want money as well!!??

[Chairmanofthebored]

Yeah, all that overwater flying is ******* hard eh? ALT captured, HDG captured, Direct to - enter. ZZZZZzzzzzz VNAV decent in 100 nms.
Welcome to the rest of your life. 2 weeks Barrow return, Skippers, Perth, 2weeks of Barrow return, Skippers, Perth, 2 weeks...
Can I live on the east coast please? NO
******* boring and don't try to convince us otherwise. Bloody offshore drivers have no idea even what a mountain or wire looks like and living to figure out what to do with 130K (thought it was 95K?) is pathetic. Don't try and convince us what you do is hard and all those other adjectives, we know; a lot of us have been there and done that and NO we are not impressed with your salary. Especially when you had to be a copilot for 5yrs and most of the Bristow pilots have never done anything else with their life apart from Bristows. If I had a buck for every cojoe who wandered up to the machine "wow! you're going looking for crocodiles!!"
Sell out if you want or live the dream. If you really are living your dream then good for you. I doubt they are considering the defensive nature of the comments.

[Ned-Air2Air]

Interesting thread and no matter where I travel or who I speak to its the common topic of discussion - we arent getting paid enough for what we do.

So lets look at it from this angle as this whole thread is about how much pilots DONT get paid. Here is a list of jobs in the helicopter industry and since members here encompass a very wide spectrum of the industry, why dont you put your two cents worth in as to what pilots SHOULD be paid, and be realistic. I know there are a lot of variables but am talking about what you think would be an acceptable salary.

Ag Pilot
Offshore Oil Support
Mustering Pilot - Newbie
Mustering Pilot - Old Hand
EMS Pilot
Law Enforcement
Corporate & VIP
General Charter
Utility Pilot
Specialist Longline Pilot
Flight Instructor - Newbie
Flight Instructor - Experienced.
Tour Pilot ie: Hawaii or Vegas
Fire Fighting

Anyway just thought this might add a different twist to this thread.

Ned

[bellfest]

cob
We may be a bit misunderstood there mate. I never have or never will work for Bristow. I have a few friends that do and they are very content with what they do. I have done a fair bit of MPT in the past though and that is where I pass my comment and question your theory that seemingly states that you don't necessaraly need a descent salary because it is not boring. Is that what you meant?
There is/are a lot of good men who have done MPT in the past and are still doing it that have a very broad range of experience in other aspects of flying. Mustering, geo, film, ems, you name it (even daring to venture out with the crocodiles how posetively terrifying ), so again, on the contrary, these people are worth a lot more.
At a certain stage of your career the wank factor no longer plays a part in what you are doing and it turns into feeding your family and putting your kids through school.
"I know we lost the house sweetheart, but you wouldn't believe what happened on approach to the ship last night, f@#* it was exciting"

[Chuck76]

COB,

After 10 years Flying in the Army I know more then a thing or two about mountains, wires and not to mention close formation on NVG's.

Dont presume just because somone has decided to work for a decent company doing the offshore gig, that they know nothing else, a lot of our pilots are highly experienced from all walks of the industry.

I posted the pay & conditions as an informative gesture so the AH pilots can do a comparison, because I genuinely feel that in the current market they are hard done by. Offshore isn't the gig for everyone; if your like me with a young family and a big mortgage it is the place to be.

If your still living the dream good for you, don't knock other guys for doing something different to yourself, everyone makes decisions based on their personal circumstances. Making the decision to join a big company and work offshore to give your family a better standard of living is anything but pathetic.