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Leaving helicopter with engine/rotors running - merged threads

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Leaving helicopter with engine/rotors running - merged threads

Old 30th Sep 2016, 23:27
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with crab....
Horses for courses . It's called using common sense.
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 00:06
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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"A helicopter rotor shall only be turned under power for the purpose of flight with a qualified pilot at the controls"
So an unlicensed passenger can legally take the controls to do an auto in the event of an engine failure?

Mickjoebill
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 01:46
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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It all gets back to the Rules/Regulations/SOP/OpsManual that apply at the time and place. I always added....a thing called commonsense...and only did it when it was the best right answer.

A hundred miles from the nearest warm abode....OAT -30F...snow falling...wind blowing.....and you need to pump fuel by hand....no radio contact with anyone.....darn sure no cell phone coverage....and you are going to shut down that Jetbox or Hughes 500 and run the risk of the Engine starting again?

Errr.....I think not!
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 03:11
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Oooow those of little knowledge........................are bloody dangerous

Exiting whilst turning & burning is an approved SOP in the Ops Man in many Countries, including the extended Himalayas. It reduces time on the ground Increases the urgency to GO for those on-ground Did You notice the weather coming in on the Video? Doooh by the way that is not Mera but Khote village H

Have You CA2 ever tried starting a machine above 20,000' or below zero with any serious altitude? CA2 I sure as shiiit wouldn't wanna be learning from You as my instructor as there ain't much in your 'bag of wisdom' next time You land on a remote pinnacle with weather rolling in & a MedEvac Rescue to do; by all means shut down, light up a fag, order a cuppa tea & see the beauty of the clouds roll in as Your Patient dies gagging, drowning in their own blood from Altitude-Sickness

CA2 please try & think outside the box Mate & find out the right reasons things are being done the way they are........after over 29 years of flying, 10 years in the Mountains; exiting whilst Rotors-Running well over 3,000 times has served me a great benefit in getting the job done safely & expeditiously (note: without incident)

Happy Landings & never loose ETL unless Your slinging, aerial working, or on short final to land
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 04:59
  #165 (permalink)  

 
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My own take is a middle way. In a place like a staging area, people around, etc. I will shut down to refuel, although a more positive approach would be to teach the first aid guy to hot refuel - he's just sitting around reading novels anyway. I certainly won't leave the cockpit for the convenience of the customer (in my experience, the most inconvenient solution is the safest).

Baffin island? As Newfieboy says, up there, and with similar places mentioned above, especially with a dodgy battery, it becomes more acceptable.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you necessarily should do it.

CRMI hat off!

Phil
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 05:18
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopjock
However if the blades are turning with no pilot at the controls, clearly the purpose is not to fly!
Originally Posted by chopjock View Post
Except there is no "subsequent" in front of the word "flight."
Great. For which reason is it then turning under power, if not for flight?
Try coming up with something reasonable that would convince the EASA bureaucrats.
Easy prey for any lawyer if the shit hits the fan, or in this case vice versa.
What TC said.

Last edited by whoknows idont; 1st Oct 2016 at 10:21.
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 06:53
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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"A helicopter rotor shall only be turned under power for the purpose of flight with a qualified pilot at the controls"
So anyone can turn the rotor under power if they have no intention of going flying?

Of course. Engineers ground running etc. No problem.

The issue to be careful of is if the RFM prohibits as in the case of AS350 models which is different depending on the model. (please check as results may vary)

Pretty sure anything up to a B2 is OK and B3's with a more modern RFM sez NO.

If the RFM sez NO your Ops Spec/Manual cannot override it.

Technically to override it you would probably need an STC!
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 11:02
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Gee, the old crewroom antics of second guessing legalese!

Undoubtedly the vacating of running helicopters is allowed in some places, not in others. Certainly we've been here before in discussing it, and the Antipodes allows pilots to leave a running helicopter under certain conditions including skid only, lockable flying controls and required for safety reasons. Never seen or heard of it being a serious issue when complied with under those terms.
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 12:01
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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After 17 years signed up on PPRuNe I can safely say I've learned the meaning of 'groundhog day'!
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 12:11
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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I have done it many times, and when needed will do it again. I don't see any problems doing it, with all precautions taken of course (locked controls, HYD OFF, wind conditions, etc...)

Which one is safer considering landing on remote areas? let pax in and out of the aircraft with the risk of walking into the TR? Or properly securing the controls and guide them out of the aircraft?
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 12:17
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Brother Eacott....please to remember there is no helicopter flying outside the UK and no authority but the CAA. Oh, sorry....Europe and EASA unless Brexit changes all that....but you get my drift I assume.

The more pedantic of the UK Crowd presume to lecture the rest of the World as though they have the One True Word when it comes to flying Helicopters all the while failing to realize some problems for their diatribe.

(Bold Print added so the non-Pedantic in the UK understand the target of my comments)

With no hill higher than 4,000 feet and max temps never much above Jumper level and underslung work a rare thing and fire fighting all but non-existent....they tell us all about that kind of work. They have a very limited Helicopter EMS industry, do scant hell-logging, no Christmas Tree lifting, and no Banner carrying.

But....by God...they will sure tell you how you are doing it wrong!

I have heard it said..."Teach a Brit to do something today....and tomorrow he will tell you how to do it!".

When it comes to this leaving a running helicopter thing....that adage sure rings true.
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 12:26
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Careful, SAS: I'm a retread Pom and my first licence was a UK CAA ATPL.

But I've moved on a little bit
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 13:36
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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I think you nailed it there Sas !! ( UK but with FAA ticket ...loving the ability to fly loads of different machines with no ratings .....Bliss !! )
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 13:44
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Eacott....you did move on....and are not of the Pedantic sort....Oz has a way of grinding that out of Pom's who decide to stay a while. Pom's, in the true usage of the word, are the ones with the rough edges unlike the Australians they so frequently accuse of having.

Do I imagine it or do those of us with multiple National ATPL's seem to be a bit more open minded about seeking the Universal Truth of Helicopter Flight?
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 16:41
  #175 (permalink)  
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Now, now SAS, Scotland has 9 'mountains' that tower mightily above 4000 ft ��
It is till in the UK at the moment!
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 19:56
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Hand up. Been there, done that, got away with it on prime time UK TV. Probably not in these litigious days though.

(at 6:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1KoMkHV34

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Old 1st Oct 2016, 20:17
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Bet you still look the same Jerry!

For those of you who enjoy life on the edge:


Grand Canyon Accident: Pilot killed in AS350 rollover [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/imag...t-Controls.pdf
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 21:17
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by whoknows idont View Post
Great. For which reason is it then turning under power, if not for flight?
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Old 1st Oct 2016, 21:24
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JerryG View Post
Hand up. Been there, done that, got away with it on prime time UK TV. Probably not in these litigious days though.
Where would you be without the jacket & stripes?

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Old 2nd Oct 2016, 02:13
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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JE,

and the Antipodes allows pilots to leave a running helicopter under certain conditions including skid only, lockable flying controls and required for safety reasons.
Not all the Antipodes - the NZ CAA has taken a few to task over the RFM requirement overriding the exemption that some hold.
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