John Eacott

AgBis,

If you read CAO95.7 (linked in my earlier post) you'll see that CASA only allow the pilot to leave the controls for helicopters equipped with skids: narrows the field regarding types Altho' I've heard reference to the practise of turning hyd's off, can't see the point, really. What does it achieve?

Autorotate

One of the best examples of what can happen was here in Kiwiland few months ago. A Glacier Southern Lakes EC120 was on a tourist flight around the Queenstown area and landed so that the pilot could get out and take a leak. He did make the passengers get out as well.

BUT - As he had the old fella out and giving it a shake he turned around and saw his EC120 sliding down the mountain and then tipping over. Needless to say he had a bit of explaining to do.

HFT

In the R44 when in a older non hydraulic model the cyclic will slowly move to some very odd (dangerous) positions with frictions on or not ,if left unattended on wind down. The hydraulic version will stay in the neutral position even with frictions off. Always hyd on for me can't understand how turning them off would make it safer.

Scattercat

It's a widely accepted practice in many parts of the industry here in OZ. However ... give plenty of thought to the surface you're on. We had a H500 chase a pilot off a (steel) ship's deck, before jumping on top of him & thrashing itself to death. The pilot was very lucky to walk away from that one. Also several mustering machines have burnt to the ground while the driver had his hand on his "other cyclic" releiving himself. "... well boss, it was like this"...

MightyGem

In an EC 135 with a HOT BATTERY caption, the FM requires you land ASAP and then get out to inspect the battery without shutting down.

Thomas coupling

Mighty: keep up old boy, see page one entry!

I checked with our insurance company and they were quite happy to accomodate this anomally into their clauses.
All we had to do was tell them.

Helipolarbear

If you are SP. and HAVE to get out without shutting down, if flying a B430, S76, B222, A109.......etc..........disengage either the Auto Trim, SCAS, SAS and ensure electric and / or manual friction locks are on tight. Also, if wind is gusty ....just don't do it............and pee into the sick bag!

Flingwing207

First off, thanks for a lot of great information.

It seems that having the pilot exit a running bird is not a strict yes/no answer, but is based on a bunch of factors such as:

- type of A/C (are its systems & controls suitable for such practice)
- landing environment (wind, slope and makeup of spot)
- company/insurance policy rules

This brings up a parallel question. I have heard of the practice of having capable but non-rated personnel start up the aircraft before the pilot arrives, or sit in & "mind" running aircraft while the pilot gets out. How does this fit into the mix?

HeliMark

Our mechanics (engineers) routinely run up our helicopters without a pilot. Engine work or tracking stuff that needs to be done on the ground. And I would have no problem leaving the helicopter running with a mechanic in it on a flat improved surface. But anything other then that, not unless they are a qualified pilot.

I am not real fond of someone else (Single Pilot stuff) starting the bird for me.

Dupre

Hi All,

I was doing some work next to a busy city helicopter pad yesterday (Mechanics Bay, Auckland) and noticed a lot of the pilots would land, and take their hands off the cyclic while the rotor was still going like the clappers.

I've only had one lesson in an R22, but surely there'd be a risk of the thing tipping over - or do the big boys flying turbine equipment (BK-117s, AS350s etc) have an automatic disc leveller or something?

Cheers,

Dupre.

vorticey

"automatic disc leveling divice" closer to clamping the cyclic in the neutral position with frictions. maybe "manual disc holding device"?

Autorotate

You will find that all those that use or visit Mechanics Bay are professional pilots and in 99.9% of cases they dont take their hands off the controls unless the aircraft is at ground idle.

Autorotate.

Helinut

Dupre,

I don't disagree with previous comments, but it is also true that the bigger helicopters are likely to have devices that hold the stick more or less in position when on the ground.

The R22 is definitely one of the helicopters that has a floppy stick.

cyclic

I fly a rigid rotor type, single pilot and find that at some stage during the day I will have to let go of the cyclic (I still can't write left handed). I agree this is best done at ground idle and at first it seemed completely alien having come from a two pilot operation with a large helicopter and flapping head. We have a cyclic "clamp" but I rarely use it as I prefer to have some control even if that means grabbing the stick quickly - landing on a ship for example.

the coyote

The S76 has 3 electrically operated magnetic brakes coupled with 3 force spring assemblies (2 for the cyclic and 1 for the collective) that will hold the controls in position. The magnetic brakes lock the control position unless you release them with switches on each control. You can still move the controls against the spring, but they will return to the original position when you let go.

Aesir

The B-222 also has an electric force trim which will hold the cyclic and collective in place.

So there is no problem releasing the controls on the ground or in flight.

Also on the B-206 it pretty easy to clamp the cyclic between your knees or legs and release the controls, preferred on the ground only though!

Also I find that the manual friction on bigger helicopters works much better than the R-22 - H-300 types.

Hilico

I can let go of the R-22 cyclic with both hands and keep it still by other means. But then, I've always been known as a clever dick.

Grainger

R22/R44: Lever down, governor off, idle at 70-80%, frictions on - in that order.

Once the friction is on the left hand might come off the lever but I keep the other one on the cyclic until all has stopped moving.

Non-pilot passengers are always briefed to stay put until everything has stopped. Hand goes back on the lever & throttle if anyone is entering or leaving via the left seat.

TheWayWeWere

In a single pilot machine like the Bell 206 it is done all the time. When on the ground, the friction can be applied to help but the primary stick holding device is the pilot's knees which he clamps on the stick to allow his hand to be used in other tasks. Even with fancier devices in other machines, my gut feel would be to have a part of me touching the controls so that I always have positive feedback as to what the physical status of the stick is. It works. And speaking as a former flight safety officer I don't think it is unsafe.


There is one other time when it is OK too. When up at altitude, flying along straight-and-level, and no danger of running into towers, mountains, clouds, etc, the stick can be clamped between the knees for a quick use of the right hand. For something that will take more time, the collective can be cinched with friction and the left hand used on the stick to allow the right hand to be free for writing etc.

There are times when a single pilot has to write things down. You do what you have to do.

Skycop

Somewhere I have a home video of a NZ registered AS-350B, taken from the car park of a South Island airport.

This "clever" pilot brought the engine back to idle and left the rotors turning then left the cockpit unattended to disembark two pax plus luggage. He walked off, leaving the aircraft running all by itself next to a gate in the car park fence, which he himself left wide open because he was carrying pax luggage. He went through the car park and into a terminal building and didn't return for about 15 TO 20 MINUTES! After about 10 mins we started filming because we couldn't believe what we were seeing.

Some major safety issues here. The aircraft could have destroyed itself by either the rotor making contact under the influence of a gust. If this had occurred, debris would have undoubtedly flown into the adjacent car park.

The engine might have caught fire with no-one to close down the engine. The turning rotors would have subsequently made it very dangerous for someone to re-enter the aircraft to shut it down or for the airport fire services to deal with it.

Or, perhaps more relevantly, a member of the public might have wandered through the open gate and 15 yards later made contact with the tail rotor or even attempted to enter the cockpit.

The pilot, now apparently in a major hurry, returned to his aircraft, jumped straight in, wound it up again, immediately (and I mean immediately!) took off to the hover and rapidly turned left and forwards (his blind side) straight into the path of another helicopter air taxying behind him, causing it to take avoiding action.

I also saw other stupid stuff going on in the hills around Rotorua with pax on board that made my hair stand on end. I wasn't surprised to hear, if these pilots were typical, that in that year, 1995, 10% of all NZ civilian registered helicopters were lost.

I'm sure things are better now, I would like to think that Darwininan theory, if not the authorities, might have sorted some of these pilots out.

TWWW,

Your last comment perhaps shows why there are so many left-handed helicopter pilots, it's easier to operate if you don't need to swap hands to write.