UN Puma crash - Sudan
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Hey sealauncher, now calm down.......
Some of us are experts. If you get so upset by having people talking about an accident, then I feel sorry for you. If you are a professionel then you will just ignore the ones that you think are full of it. This is after all a forum where everybody can have his/her opinion. Some of the statements on pprune are definately out of order but I say it again, there are a lot of professional pilots discussing topics of all sorts of things. You are treating everybody here as if we are all reporters. ANY accident involving helicopters affects us all. It is in our nature to wanna find out asap what could have happend or better, what happend.....
Don't forget, the helicopter world is a very small one. There is a good chance that a ppruner has facts about something that may have happend.
Some of us are experts. If you get so upset by having people talking about an accident, then I feel sorry for you. If you are a professionel then you will just ignore the ones that you think are full of it. This is after all a forum where everybody can have his/her opinion. Some of the statements on pprune are definately out of order but I say it again, there are a lot of professional pilots discussing topics of all sorts of things. You are treating everybody here as if we are all reporters. ANY accident involving helicopters affects us all. It is in our nature to wanna find out asap what could have happend or better, what happend.....
Don't forget, the helicopter world is a very small one. There is a good chance that a ppruner has facts about something that may have happend.
Thread Starter
Quake-hit Pakistan relies on chopper trips
By HANS GREIMEL
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
NEHAR BALA, Pakistan -- Threading through an icy-white canyon, the wind-battered helicopter banks left and suddenly plummets to a snow-draped toehold to deliver more aid to survivors of South Asia's killer earthquake.
Choppers are a lifeline for villagers cut off by snow and landslides in the Himalayan mountains of northern Pakistan. But the U.N.'s biggest humanitarian airlift is also its riskiest, and three aircraft deployed in the relief effort have crashed in the last four months.
Last week, authorities abandoned the search for a helicopter chartered by the International Committee of the Red Cross that disappeared with seven aboard on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. The crew had just finished three months of relief flights for victims of the Oct. 8 quake.
"It's the most difficult conditions I've ever experienced," said Nozdrin Sergiy, a Ukrainian pilot with 33 years under his belt.
He flies with the United Nations, which under the auspices of the World Food Program coordinates 26 aircraft for as many as 200 flights a day - 11,000 in all so far. Thousands more missions have been flown by six choppers from the ICRC, seven from Pakistan's army and 12 from the U.S. military.
The flights are more important than ever for isolated mountain villages, helping to keep the quake's death toll of 87,000 from growing during the harsh winter.
Although the helicopters have been periodically grounded by the weather, the U.N. flights alone have so far moved 11,000 tons of food, 3,000 tons of other supplies and nearly 22,000 people, including aid workers and quake victims needing hospitalization.
"It's the biggest, most complex air operation on the humanitarian side of the U.N. in its history," said Einar Schjolberg, head of the U.N. Humanitarian Air Service, which directs flights from a bustling air-traffic control center in Islamabad.
Given its grand scope - more than 20,000 chopper flights so far by all relief agencies - mishaps have been remarkably few, aid workers say. Two of the three aircraft that went down were actually flying to and from Pakistan.
"It's really impressive, looking at the number of helicopters flying over the area," said ICRC spokeswoman Layla Berlemont Shtewi, whose organization has flown nearly 5,000 sorties.
Chartered by the ICRC, the Russian-built Mi-8 helicopter lost last week vanished in the mountains along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border on its way home to Turkmenistan.
In October, four people were killed when a U.N. helicopter heading for the quake zone crashed in Azerbaijan. In the same month, a Pakistan army helicopter went down in Kashmir in bad weather, killing all six on board.
Other dangers abound. Moody weather and the unforgiving landscape are the biggest wild cards. The choppers are delivering to elevations of 10,000 feet, but a sudden storm can box them into Kashmir's narrow canyons with little warning.
"The worst was just down this valley," chopper worker Nisar Malik recalled of the terraced cliffs that hem in the hamlet of Nehar Bala and its 3,000 villagers.
"A huge storm front was racing through," he said. "The snow started hitting us as we took off, and we had to dive into the valley with this big thing just chasing us."
The Mi-8 and all other choppers contracted by the WFP must be equipped with emergency homing beacons, two global position systems, weather radar and 24-hour supplies of food and water in case they go down.
Because of destroyed or blocked roads, helicopter airlifts will be needed through the end of the year and into 2007, Schjolberg said. Flights will keep moving 300 tons of supplies a day through June and will then be scaled back by two-thirds.
But that all depends on cash flow.
Chartering an Mi-8 costs the WFP $4,500 a day, while fueling the entire fleet for a week sets the United Nations back $536,000 on top of that. The helicopters burn 211,000 gallons every seven days.
U.N. officials are hustling for donors because helicopter operations are about $15.4 million short of funding needed to keep missions flying through the end of March. The United Nations estimates it will need about $80 million for the rest of 2006.
"It's a very costly operation, but it has really paid off," Schjolberg said.
By HANS GREIMEL
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
NEHAR BALA, Pakistan -- Threading through an icy-white canyon, the wind-battered helicopter banks left and suddenly plummets to a snow-draped toehold to deliver more aid to survivors of South Asia's killer earthquake.
Choppers are a lifeline for villagers cut off by snow and landslides in the Himalayan mountains of northern Pakistan. But the U.N.'s biggest humanitarian airlift is also its riskiest, and three aircraft deployed in the relief effort have crashed in the last four months.
Last week, authorities abandoned the search for a helicopter chartered by the International Committee of the Red Cross that disappeared with seven aboard on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. The crew had just finished three months of relief flights for victims of the Oct. 8 quake.
"It's the most difficult conditions I've ever experienced," said Nozdrin Sergiy, a Ukrainian pilot with 33 years under his belt.
He flies with the United Nations, which under the auspices of the World Food Program coordinates 26 aircraft for as many as 200 flights a day - 11,000 in all so far. Thousands more missions have been flown by six choppers from the ICRC, seven from Pakistan's army and 12 from the U.S. military.
The flights are more important than ever for isolated mountain villages, helping to keep the quake's death toll of 87,000 from growing during the harsh winter.
Although the helicopters have been periodically grounded by the weather, the U.N. flights alone have so far moved 11,000 tons of food, 3,000 tons of other supplies and nearly 22,000 people, including aid workers and quake victims needing hospitalization.
"It's the biggest, most complex air operation on the humanitarian side of the U.N. in its history," said Einar Schjolberg, head of the U.N. Humanitarian Air Service, which directs flights from a bustling air-traffic control center in Islamabad.
Given its grand scope - more than 20,000 chopper flights so far by all relief agencies - mishaps have been remarkably few, aid workers say. Two of the three aircraft that went down were actually flying to and from Pakistan.
"It's really impressive, looking at the number of helicopters flying over the area," said ICRC spokeswoman Layla Berlemont Shtewi, whose organization has flown nearly 5,000 sorties.
Chartered by the ICRC, the Russian-built Mi-8 helicopter lost last week vanished in the mountains along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border on its way home to Turkmenistan.
In October, four people were killed when a U.N. helicopter heading for the quake zone crashed in Azerbaijan. In the same month, a Pakistan army helicopter went down in Kashmir in bad weather, killing all six on board.
Other dangers abound. Moody weather and the unforgiving landscape are the biggest wild cards. The choppers are delivering to elevations of 10,000 feet, but a sudden storm can box them into Kashmir's narrow canyons with little warning.
"The worst was just down this valley," chopper worker Nisar Malik recalled of the terraced cliffs that hem in the hamlet of Nehar Bala and its 3,000 villagers.
"A huge storm front was racing through," he said. "The snow started hitting us as we took off, and we had to dive into the valley with this big thing just chasing us."
The Mi-8 and all other choppers contracted by the WFP must be equipped with emergency homing beacons, two global position systems, weather radar and 24-hour supplies of food and water in case they go down.
Because of destroyed or blocked roads, helicopter airlifts will be needed through the end of the year and into 2007, Schjolberg said. Flights will keep moving 300 tons of supplies a day through June and will then be scaled back by two-thirds.
But that all depends on cash flow.
Chartering an Mi-8 costs the WFP $4,500 a day, while fueling the entire fleet for a week sets the United Nations back $536,000 on top of that. The helicopters burn 211,000 gallons every seven days.
U.N. officials are hustling for donors because helicopter operations are about $15.4 million short of funding needed to keep missions flying through the end of March. The United Nations estimates it will need about $80 million for the rest of 2006.
"It's a very costly operation, but it has really paid off," Schjolberg said.
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From a nice flat beside a glider airfield
A colleage with the UN says the Sudanese CAA has ruled out mechanical failure as a cause of the accident.
The real question here is will they focus on the pilots actions, or the training he recieved, and the SOP's (or lack of SOP's) to which he was working.
A colleage with the UN says the Sudanese CAA has ruled out mechanical failure as a cause of the accident.
The real question here is will they focus on the pilots actions, or the training he recieved, and the SOP's (or lack of SOP's) to which he was working.
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SeaLauncher
I too have friends working the operation in Sudan, and I have information that I would not post on this forum, but a basic idea of what has happenned is in everyone's interest. After all, we all learn from each other's mistakes, and a reminder of how dangerous is our proffesion, can hurt no-one.
My thoughts remain with the Helog team, both in Sudan and in Salzburg.
I too have friends working the operation in Sudan, and I have information that I would not post on this forum, but a basic idea of what has happenned is in everyone's interest. After all, we all learn from each other's mistakes, and a reminder of how dangerous is our proffesion, can hurt no-one.
My thoughts remain with the Helog team, both in Sudan and in Salzburg.
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[QUOTE=greenthumb]This is the preliminary german AAIB report:
Narrative: Short after take-off the helicopter tumbled and plummeted into a building. The helicopter was immediately consumed by fire.[QUOTE]
posted on 29th.January.
Pardon me-only 7 days have elapsed since the accident which occurred on Wednesday 25th.January. Lufthansa do not have a daily schedule to Khartoum & I doubt that the Sudanese CAA got out of bed to travel to Jebel Marra on Thursday when Thursday/Friday is the Moslem weekend. These reports must be treated with caution. The UK AAIB would take weeks to re-assemble a wreck on the hangar floor at Farnborough before reaching a conclusion as to the causes.The UN have a known track record for brushing accidents to their contract fleet under the carpet, the Sudanese landscape being littered with crashed/wrecked Antonovs, not all belonging to the UN fleet though. This accident is a great pity-Helog were brought in as I understood it for it's adherence to European safety standards, the opposite seems to have occurred. (vorsprung durch technik seems to have lost a wheel between Ingolstadt & Salzburg!) For those on site it will be very easy for UNMIS to restrict access to the outside world although there's always the mobile phone network,when it's switched on. I fear that it will take a concerted effort to unearth details of this accident but intrepid PPRUNERS could try the following avenues:Contact Mr.Patrick Goudou, Executive Director of EASA(European Safety Agency) which has a remit to oversee all relevant european safety agencies for compliance with EU/ICAO regs both within & without european borders.He can be contacted by 'e' mail: [email protected] or alternatively www.easa.eu.int/home
Alternatively the German BFU(Bundestelle fur(umlaut over u) Flugunfalluntersuchung) on www.bfu-wed.de (german equivalent of the UK AAIB)
If you're still reading this, 10/10 for stamina & lastly it could be worth an 'e'mail to the Editor of the 'Salzburg Times' at www.salzburg.qv.and asking whether he intends to publish details of this accident locally, when or if, they are published by the BFU?
Yours ever, airspeed alive
Narrative: Short after take-off the helicopter tumbled and plummeted into a building. The helicopter was immediately consumed by fire.[QUOTE]
posted on 29th.January.
=cheesaburger on 31st January.'The Sudanese CAA have already ruled out mechanical failure as a cause of the accident'
Alternatively the German BFU(Bundestelle fur(umlaut over u) Flugunfalluntersuchung) on www.bfu-wed.de (german equivalent of the UK AAIB)
If you're still reading this, 10/10 for stamina & lastly it could be worth an 'e'mail to the Editor of the 'Salzburg Times' at www.salzburg.qv.and asking whether he intends to publish details of this accident locally, when or if, they are published by the BFU?
Yours ever, airspeed alive
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Good riddance zen... As pointed out it's a RUMOUR NETWORK! Your clearly upset, don't vent your anger on people trying to make head or tail of a tragedy if you're clearly in the know, let them know. Or are you nervous wingeneer?
I can see from the profiles, there are a few SA-330J ratings listed among the posting gents. As it is NOT the most common type to have on the license, unless you are ex. british or french military. Just wondering how many of you have been involved in THAT operation??
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Never mind xavier 95, at least you left the operation with an equal number of take-offs & landings!
Oryx on the African thread appears to know more, perhaps he could be invited to contribute to this thread.
It would be good if somebody in the know could update the forum on the casualties condition?
Oryx on the African thread appears to know more, perhaps he could be invited to contribute to this thread.
It would be good if somebody in the know could update the forum on the casualties condition?
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UN grounds all Pumas in Sudan pending results of investigation.
Perhaps Helog-Austria/Compass Holdings of Switzerland will now recognize the validity of the age-old truism "if you think flight safety is expensive, try having an accident!"
I hope the gentlemen in charge of these organisations will see that the family of the poor unfortunate victim will be generously compensated for the loss of their loved one.
yours aye, airspeed alive
Perhaps Helog-Austria/Compass Holdings of Switzerland will now recognize the validity of the age-old truism "if you think flight safety is expensive, try having an accident!"
I hope the gentlemen in charge of these organisations will see that the family of the poor unfortunate victim will be generously compensated for the loss of their loved one.
yours aye, airspeed alive
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Check this
"How the pilots are prepared for action in Sudan"
http://http://www.compass-holding.ch...ass_nr_9_6.pdf
"How the pilots are prepared for action in Sudan"
http://http://www.compass-holding.ch...ass_nr_9_6.pdf
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If you fly slingloads every day or flying in a mission like in the sudan means always flying with a small amount of unknown risk...thats what our job is...everyone of us commercial ones know that things like that can happen also to each one of you every day....so dont judge here about things you dont know....was anyone of you in that helicopter that day???...are all of you so much informed about the operation and the details of what happend??...or do have some of you just a probleme that maybe you dont get the job or some of you can not sit in a cockpit down there ???...how ever...i feel with the victim and also with the crew of that helicopter because it seems to me that nowone of you knows what will follow for these people...i thought we are a "family" in our business which is still special and small...and especially the ones who live with the same passion and fascination every day would stand more togheter....but it looks very diffrent here....i am not shure if i would like to be in the same cockpit with some guys in that forum...maybe if you leave the helicopter you find yourself having "a knife" in your back....
....and just to finish with the words: think about that one day you will find yourself beside a crashsite, responsible for your aircraft...what would you think if people start "a hunt" against you and your company??? i am shure you will love it....
....and just to finish with the words: think about that one day you will find yourself beside a crashsite, responsible for your aircraft...what would you think if people start "a hunt" against you and your company??? i am shure you will love it....
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Long time since I've read such tripe: RAF sim????????????????????? Night flying?
heli_michel, you can be assured that many people feel the gentlemen in charge are the ones with the knives!!!!!
Companies seem to take the opinion that we are a "family" when it is convenient for them to do so, and employees must follow this line, but the same companies do not afford their subordinates the same courtesy.
Less than impressed,
H
heli_michel, you can be assured that many people feel the gentlemen in charge are the ones with the knives!!!!!
Companies seem to take the opinion that we are a "family" when it is convenient for them to do so, and employees must follow this line, but the same companies do not afford their subordinates the same courtesy.
Less than impressed,
H
